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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 497013 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3800 on: May 06, 2020, 08:59:18 am »

From today's Washington Post, an engaging column from Dana Milbank:




Allow me to share some frank thoughts about the president:

The orangutan in the White House is less refined than a savage. He is a fool, an irresolute, vacillating imbecile. He is an idiot, of low intellectual capacity. He is a barbarian, a yahoo, a gorilla — the original gorilla — and an unshapely man. He is horrid-looking, a scoundrel, a creature fit, evidently, for petty treasons.

He is dishonest. He is unjust. He has no principle, no respect for law. In his administrative madness, on his unconstitutional crusade, he uses the power of government to crush. His presidency is despotism, a dictatorship, a monstrous usurpation, a criminal wrong and an act of national suicide.

The American people are in no mood to reelect a man to the highest office whose daily language is indecent. His speech is coarse, colloquial, devoid of ease and grace, and bristling with outrages against the simplest rules of syntax. His silly remarks are flat and dishwatery utterances. It wouldn’t be easy to produce anything more dull and commonplace — awkwardly expressed and slipshod, so loose-jointed, so puerile.
 
Lacking in dignity or patriotism, his words would have caused a Washington to mourn and would have inspired a Jefferson, Madison or Jackson with contempt.

A leader of incapacity and rottenness, he has taken us on a wicked and hazardous experiment. He lacks practical talent and capacity for government. He is an old joker. He is weak as water, a man of canting hypocrisy. He sickens us. If he is reelected I shall immediately leave the country.

The administration thus far has not met public expectations. He has brought on us national humiliation, leaving the cheek of every American to tingle with shame. After four years of usurpation, of lawless, reckless misgovernment, he should be removed from office.

He is ultimately to be classed among the catalog of monsters, of foolish and incompetent kings and emperors. He will go down as the man who could not read the signs of the times, who couldn’t understand the circumstances and interests of his country, who failed without excuses and fell without a friend.

At this point, I should mention that the president these words refer to is Abraham Lincoln. They are examples of contemporaneous criticism of the Great Emancipator from the newspapers of the day…<big snip>


I thought you all would like to know.  8-)


and then they killed him....
They may have killed Lincoln.  But they didn't impeach him.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3801 on: May 06, 2020, 09:17:13 am »

I work for a company that is trying to help. I am in fact even busier than usual.

I am fully aware about the economic impacts and I know that it's tough for many people. As discussed before, more tough that it should have been had the right measures been taken timely.

But it doesn't remove any responsibility from those who would cause the death of others around them by not being careful enough. Does it mean they cannot work? I don't think it does for many people, starting for the many who can work remotely. For those that cannot, I sure hope that proper solidarity will be deployed to help them help the collectivity without endangering them.

Does it mean they should avoid meeting elderly people? It certainly does mean that.

Regards,
Bernard

The whole argument is moot.  The entire US will be opening up state by state in the next few weeks.  Right or wrong,  It seems the country has moved on.  It's similar in other parts of the world as those countries are opening up as well.  Leaders throughout the world disagree with you. They understand that people will die.  But they also see that killing their economies and making themselves pauper states cannot be tolerated either.  So older people like myself are going to have to play it safe.  Stay at home until this thing gets under control and protect ourselves.  No one is listening to you. 

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3802 on: May 06, 2020, 09:24:12 am »

It seems we're all in this fix together.

EU predicts region will contract 7.4% this year in worst economic shock since 1930s

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/coronavirus-european-union-to-contract-7point5percent-due-to-the-pandemic.html

Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3803 on: May 06, 2020, 09:25:43 am »

They may have killed Lincoln.  But they didn't impeach him.

Shiff for brains was not born yet...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3804 on: May 06, 2020, 09:25:59 am »

It seems we're all in this fix together.

EU predicts region will contract 7.4% this year in worst economic shock since 1930s

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/coronavirus-european-union-to-contract-7point5percent-due-to-the-pandemic.html

Sure. Only the stock market is living in a parallel world.

I wonder how much longer than can last.

Cheers,
Bernard

Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3805 on: May 06, 2020, 09:32:11 am »

It seems we're all in this fix together.

EU predicts region will contract 7.4% this year in worst economic shock since 1930s

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/06/coronavirus-european-union-to-contract-7point5percent-due-to-the-pandemic.html

Lots of service workers will be out of work for some time and lots of small restaurants will be gone.  But pretty much everyone else will get back on the job.  The upside is that for a lot of people they will have more money because there will be less spent on dining and entertainment.  Its going to go elsewhere or get saved which would be a good thing for a lot of Americans.  I thnk we will be down to 4 or 5 percent unemployment by years end.

One other upside is people will be staying home in the US for vacations for awhile.  BUY MORE RV's!
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3806 on: May 06, 2020, 09:32:19 am »

The whole argument is moot.  The entire US will be opening up state by state in the next few weeks.  Right or wrong,  It seems the country has moved on.  It's similar in other parts of the world as those countries are opening up as well.  Leaders throughout the world disagree with you. They understand that people will die.  But they also see that killing their economies and making themselves pauper states cannot be tolerated either.  So older people like myself are going to have to play it safe.  Stay at home until this thing gets under control and protect ourselves.  No one is listening to you.

No one is listening to what you are saying I am saying, which is not what I am saying...

I am not saying that nothing should be reopened. I am saying it should be done in a responsible way with each individual keeping in mind his own potential to harm others.

As far as the covid being no more harmful than the flu this is simply not true. The covid today has most probably already killed in 4 months nearly as many people as the flu over the course of a full year... with the most ambitious lock down ever deployed.

The estimates I have seen say that the death rate may have been 5 times higher without a lock down.

This tells us the the covid kills about 10 times more than the flu.

Cheers,
Bernard

chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3807 on: May 06, 2020, 09:34:03 am »

I have no idea what you are getting at with the flu deaths reference above other then maybe no deaths are directly caused by the flu?  It is always caused by another complication?  If that  is the case, you can say the same for C-19.  The deaths are always caused by another complication, if you really want to get technical. 

However, like I said before, this is a flu that is hitting all at once.  The fatality rate is only marginally higher then the flu, but it is just everyone is getting it.  That fact that everyone is getting it is why we are experiencing all of the death, but nonetheless it is a flu.

What I will not accept is the idea that we need to stay locked down and hope a vaccine is found.  That is not a strategy nor scientific.  We may never get a vaccine. 

I am glad Trump is finally pushing the medical experts aside and starting to listen to economic experts more.  It is about time we put in place an actual strategy then let's hope for the best.

I'm saying there is no official count of flu deaths so I don't know how you can compare.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3808 on: May 06, 2020, 09:34:55 am »

Whistleblower paints a grim picture of Covid-19 related cronyism and anti-science partisanship, https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/05/rick-bright-hydroxychloroquine-whistleblower-complaint/#click=https://t.co/nUy6Oy5Xfy.

All details aside, why aren't Trumpeteers more worried about the cult-like behaviour whereby Trump considers loyalty to himself more important than loyalty to the country? It's a lousy way to run anything, let alone a country. You just end up with sycophantic "yes" men in important jobs. Shouldn't people be more worried about this than they seemingly are.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3809 on: May 06, 2020, 09:40:59 am »

Whistleblower paints a grim picture of Covid-19 related cronyism and anti-science partisanship, https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/05/rick-bright-hydroxychloroquine-whistleblower-complaint/#click=https://t.co/nUy6Oy5Xfy.

All details aside, why aren't Trumpeteers more worried about the cult-like behaviour whereby Trump considers loyalty to himself more important than loyalty to the country? It's a lousy way to run anything, let alone a country. You just end up with sycophantic "yes" men in important jobs. Shouldn't people be more worried about this than they seemingly are.

He did listen to, against his greater good to use the economy in his re-election, the medical experts to shut down the economy. 

I dont see how this fits your above narrative. 
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3810 on: May 06, 2020, 09:42:10 am »

He did listen to, against his greater good to use the economy in his re-election, the medical experts to shut down the economy. 

I dont see how this fits your above narrative.

My narrative? I didn't know I had one.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3811 on: May 06, 2020, 09:45:22 am »

My narrative? I didn't know I had one.

Well, you posted the link, and your narration of it. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3812 on: May 06, 2020, 09:47:09 am »

So now the giveaway programs to business owners won't come with many strings.  So owners will take the money, stuff it in their pockets, not hire back their employees, and shut their worthless businesses.  They'll walk away with a gift from John Q Public, the schnook.  Does anyone think the government is going to check and prosecute anyone?  Especially since both Democrats and Republicans are voting for this plan? Which politicians are going to want the public know how the taxpayers were ripped off and received their ire during the election? And then they'll all claim what a great thing they did. 


Next round of small business relief may come with fewer strings attached

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/05/small-business-relief-238995

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3813 on: May 06, 2020, 10:00:20 am »

Lots of service workers will be out of work for some time and lots of small restaurants will be gone.  But pretty much everyone else will get back on the job.  The upside is that for a lot of people they will have more money because there will be less spent on dining and entertainment.  Its going to go elsewhere or get saved which would be a good thing for a lot of Americans.  I thnk we will be down to 4 or 5 percent unemployment by years end.

One other upside is people will be staying home in the US for vacations for awhile.  BUY MORE RV's!
Your business should pick up as people refuse to sail any more, or fly.  I hope you're right that businesses will come back.  But it might be years.  B&H layed off 20% of their people.  How many people here forgoed buying camera equipment for awhile.  That affects manufacturers, middlemen, etc.  When people don't travel, hotels, restaurants, taxis, and hookers get less business.  Will the government lay off PSA security workers at the airport?  Disney business is down 90%. 

What's really concerning is the banks might wind up where they were in 2008 when we had to bail out the too big to fail.  When people default on their mortgages, commercial lease payments, credit cards, car loans, tuition loans, etc, the government might have to backstop them again to avoid a banking crisis.  It's probably happening already but the government doesn't want to talk about it to create more fear.  Car manufacturers are shut down.  They're not service.  Money can only go elsewhere if people have it.  Plus, if they're saving, there not spending so that affects bottom lines of companies.  I see this shaping up like the 1970's stagflation.  Lower economic business combined with inflation and ever escalating prices because of too much government printing.  Hold onto your hat, Dorothy.  There's a storm a coming.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3814 on: May 06, 2020, 10:07:42 am »

No one is listening to what you are saying I am saying, which is not what I am saying...

I am not saying that nothing should be reopened.
I am saying it should be done in a responsible way with each individual keeping in mind his own potential to harm others.

As far as the covid being no more harmful than the flu this is simply not true. The covid today has most probably already killed in 4 months nearly as many people as the flu over the course of a full year... with the most ambitious lock down ever deployed.

The estimates I have seen say that the death rate may have been 5 times higher without a lock down.

This tells us the the covid kills about 10 times more than the flu.

Cheers,
Bernard

That's not what you've been saying.  You have been telling everyone they should stay home.  Page after page after page.  Using guilt to instill fear in them. Now, because the whole world is ignoring your beliefs, and opening up, you're backing off your position.  You're trying to make it seem that you're in favor of opening up.  That's not what you've been preaching.  Like Trump, you now deny that you said things that you said. 

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3815 on: May 06, 2020, 10:15:40 am »

Whistleblower paints a grim picture of Covid-19 related cronyism and anti-science partisanship, https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/05/05/rick-bright-hydroxychloroquine-whistleblower-complaint/#click=https://t.co/nUy6Oy5Xfy.

All details aside, why aren't Trumpeteers more worried about the cult-like behaviour whereby Trump considers loyalty to himself more important than loyalty to the country? It's a lousy way to run anything, let alone a country. You just end up with sycophantic "yes" men in important jobs. Shouldn't people be more worried about this than they seemingly are.

Trump's a politician who wants to be re-elected.  America's a democracy where people vote.  So he's responding to the feeling in the country that it has to open up.  The country apparently is moving on from isolation to wanting to get back to work, something Joe predicted.   Well, I predicted it too giving May 4th as the re-open date. In any case, politicians who stay stuck in the past are going to lose as the train is pulling out of the station.  Of course there's risk.  If there's a second wave, it could get bad.  But I don't think people are going to pull back in again. They have to work.  They have to feed their families. 

chez

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3816 on: May 06, 2020, 10:27:17 am »

Trump's a politician who wants to be re-elected.  America's a democracy where people vote.  So he's responding to the feeling in the country that it has to open up.  The country apparently is moving on from isolation to wanting to get back to work, something Joe predicted.   Well, I predicted it too giving May 4th as the re-open date. In any case, politicians who stay stuck in the past are going to lose as the train is pulling out of the station.  Of course there's risk.  If there's a second wave, it could get bad.  But I don't think people are going to pull back in again. They have to work.  They have to feed their families.

People in general are still scared to go back to the way things were. Couple that with money shortage and I think we'll see a very slow economy going forward.

Here's a summary of a poll conducted recently.

"A minority of Americans said that if the emergency orders put in place to curb the spread of the coronavirus were lifted the next day, they would be likely to go out in public to eat at a restaurant (44%), go to a bar (21%), attend a sporting event in a large stadium (20%), go to a gym or health club (29%), stay in a hotel (30%), go to a movie theatre (24%), attend church (46%), go bowling (22%), fly on an airplane (29%), or send their child to school (45%)."
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3817 on: May 06, 2020, 10:35:11 am »

People in general are still scared to go back to the way things were. Couple that with money shortage and I think we'll see a very slow economy going forward.

Here's a summary of a poll conducted recently.

"A minority of Americans said that if the emergency orders put in place to curb the spread of the coronavirus were lifted the next day, they would be likely to go out in public to eat at a restaurant (44%), go to a bar (21%), attend a sporting event in a large stadium (20%), go to a gym or health club (29%), stay in a hotel (30%), go to a movie theatre (24%), attend church (46%), go bowling (22%), fly on an airplane (29%), or send their child to school (45%)."

Yes, but a majority of the country wants to get back to work. 

Only a very small minority want to go back to business as usual.  A large minority wants to continue the lock down.  But a majority want to start opening up, which will only increase as more and more people start looking at what the actual fatality numbers are.  They are very very low for the vast majority of people. 

You're on the loosing side.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3818 on: May 06, 2020, 10:41:55 am »

That's not what you've been saying.  You have been telling everyone they should stay home.  Page after page after page.  Using guilt to instill fear in them. Now, because the whole world is ignoring your beliefs, and opening up, you're backing off your position.  You're trying to make it seem that you're in favor of opening up.  That's not what you've been preaching.  Like Trump, you now deny that you said things that you said.

It's amazing seeing all of the Dems coming out of the wood work condemning Trump for moving on with the task force.  As the economy recovers it will equally amazing to watch those same Dems criticize him for not doing it earlier. 
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elliot_n

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #3819 on: May 06, 2020, 10:44:43 am »

It's amazing seeing all of the Dems coming out of the wood work condemning Trump for moving on with the task force.

He's changed his mind:

'The Task Force will continue on indefinitely'

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 10:49:13 am by elliot_n »
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