PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[JoeKitchen]

Right! We need unhinged people with an agenda deciding where the virus originated.
Humor me, how do you determine where the virus came from? Hint, it’s virology and epidemiology, aka science and not which version suits your interests best. I get it that’s appealing but it’s not evidence.
Pompeo just threw a squirrel to divert attention from the mounting problems internally. He shouldn’t have bothered, Republican base will believe anything Trump says anyway while the Democrat base won’t believe anything Trump says anyway.


PS. I don’t watch/follow Maher but I know of him. For devote Republicans to quote him to prove their points it’s quite precious

We need politicians, not experts. 

I know that is your religion, the religions of always listening to the experts.  Problem though, experts have tunnel vision, so no, we dont need them making policy decisions.

And what is wrong with using Maher?  He is on the other side, but he actually has convictions and argues his point.  Most on the left just insist they are right, dont want to argue, and drop their convictions when it suits them (like with Biden).  You got to give Maher respect even if he is on the other side. 

Unfortuniately this quality is lacking on the left too, that being  allowing yourself to see the other side in good faith. 

[elliot_n]

We need politicians, not experts. 

I thought you were anti-government?

[JoeKitchen]

I thought you were anti-government?

I am, but foreign affairs falls under providing protection for the country, one the few purposes we libertarians think government should handle. 

And no, it is not a contradiction. 

[elliot_n]

And no, it is not a contradiction. 

There's a kind of logic there.

You have a government to square up to external threats (e.g. China). But when those threats become internal (e.g. a virus), you allow the threat to manifest itself and hope that the market will ameliorate the damage. Is that it?

(That's what I was asking you in the other thread - how do you envision a response to a global pandemic that is non-governmental and purely market-driven?)

[JoeKitchen]

There's a kind of logic there.

You have a government to square up to external threats (e.g. China). But when those threats become internal (e.g. a virus), you allow the threat to manifest itself and hope that the market will ameliorate the damage. Is that it?

(That's what I was asking you in the other thread - how do you envision a response to a global pandemic that is non-governmental and purely market-driven?)

Good point. 

So I am for the government handling foreign affairs when dealing other countries, especially nefarious ones such as China, when it come to this.  However, internally, since one can reasonably assume everyone has a patriotic common ground of helping out fellow citizens and would be for the overall country, to allow the free market and good intentions of free citizens handle everything. 

[elliot_n]

However, internally, since one can reasonably assume everyone has a patriotic common ground of helping out fellow citizens and would be for the overall country, to allow the free market and good intentions of free citizens handle everything. 

It seems to me that when faced with a global pandemic, your free citizens, dwelling in their anarchist utopia, would immediately establish a government to protect themselves from the incoming threat.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

It is a freaking cold, people, not a nuclear threat!

[chez]

It is a freaking cold, people, not a nuclear threat!

And yet this freaking cold has killed more US citizens than the Vietnam war and the Gulf wars combined...and it's still killing them at a good clip.

[faberryman]

And what is wrong with using Maher?  He is on the other side, but he actually has convictions and argues his point.

He is a comedian and talk show host.

[faberryman]

Good point. 

So I am for the government handling foreign affairs when dealing other countries, especially nefarious ones such as China, when it come to this.  However, internally, since one can reasonably assume everyone has a patriotic common ground of helping out fellow citizens and would be for the overall country, to allow the free market and good intentions of free citizens handle everything.

You notice those good intentions when you turn on the TV and see everyone wearing a face mask and practicing social distancing.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... everyone wearing a face mask and practicing social distancing.

Social distancing is a crime against humanity. And masks are simply stupid.

[armand]

We need politicians, not experts. 

I know that is your religion, the religions of always listening to the experts.  Problem though, experts have tunnel vision, so no, we dont need them making policy decisions.

And what is wrong with using Maher?  He is on the other side, but he actually has convictions and argues his point.  Most on the left just insist they are right, dont want to argue, and drop their convictions when it suits them (like with Biden).  You got to give Maher respect even if he is on the other side. 

Unfortuniately this quality is lacking on the left too, that being  allowing yourself to see the other side in good faith.

You should be a politician. Such a long reply yet you didn't answer the issue that I raised.

Let me make it more clear: it's only an expert (ideally a team of) that can determine at some extent where this virus originated and if it was engineered, and not Pompeo's wishful thinking. Until he comes with proof from experts, what he says it's just an empty squirrel, quite irresponsible from somebody in his position to come with these accusations without actually showing the proof though.


And no, I don't religiously listen to experts. It depends how reliable the science is on that subject, how the consensus is (less, than I want more experts), and if the issue at hand is a matter of needing multiple experts. The issue that I have with Trump is that he gives the distinct feeling he only has those experts for the show, he didn't actually listen much that comes against his preformed ideas.

[Craig Lamson]

Trump claimed that the virus came from the Wuhan lab.

The idea that the virus was engineered by the lab has been dismissed by just about everyone.

Thats right, he is NOT claiming it was made/manufactured/engineered. 

Its the MEDIA thats trying to claim that.

[armand]

...And masks are simply stupid.

Forrest Gump had another saying about this.

You probably think it's funny to provoke but you put no thought in it and do it just for the show. Or maybe you feel lucky that you got it and feel invulnerable, as to what happens to the rest you don't care anymore.

[JoeKitchen]

It is a freaking cold, people, not a nuclear threat!

+1

[JoeKitchen]

And yet this freaking cold has killed more US citizens than the Vietnam war and the Gulf wars combined...and it's still killing them at a good clip.

Sorry, but making comparisons of this to war is significantly more ludicrous then comparing it to the flu. 

[JoeKitchen]

Forrest Gump had another saying about this.

You probably think it's funny to provoke but you put no thought in it and do it just for the show. Or maybe you feel lucky that you got it and feel invulnerable, as to what happens to the rest you don't care anymore.

Yawn. 

I'll wear a mask in someone's place of business if asked, otherwise I'm not. 

But let me ask you a question.  You are obviously living under the "hope method" that at some point soon, you are hoping a vaccine or treatment is found.  This of course is not scientific at all, and there has never been a guarantee we will ever get a vaccine.  But anyway, how long are you willing to do this without finding a treatment that you say, the Swedish method is what we should do? 

How many months of total economic damage are you willing to put up with waiting until you finally say, Godot is not coming today nor tomorrow nor the day after and walk away? 

[armand]

You are all in for a rough awakening.

It's a false dichotomy opening the economy vs social distancing/stay at home. There will be nothing open if the virus goes unchecked, not enough people will go to work and for all practical purposes the economy will be down but many more lives will be lost because some refuse to understand to problem.


And see attached some Facebook wisdom regarding masks why you are not more manly if you don't wear one.
Oh, one more thing, that I saw recently: If the elementary school children have to endure the trauma of active shooter drill for your freedoms, then you can wear the fucking mask without complaining so much. If I and other providers have to struggle to breath under the protective masks and equipment because of your right to protest and roam without thinking of the others, then you can wear the fucking mask without complaining so much.

[JoeKitchen]

You are all in for a rough awakening.

It's a false dichotomy opening the economy vs social distancing/stay at home. There will be nothing open if the virus goes unchecked, not enough people will go to work and for all practical purposes the economy will be down but many more lives will be lost because some refuse to understand to problem.


And see attached some Facebook wisdom regarding masks why you are not more manly if you don't wear one.
Oh, one more thing, that I saw recently: If the elementary school children have to endure the trauma of active shooter drill for your freedoms, then you can wear the fucking mask without complaining so much. If I and other providers have to struggle to breath under the protective masks and equipment because of your right to protest and roam without thinking of the others, then you can wear the fucking mask without complaining so much.

I'll ask you again, how long are you willing to keep on destroying the economy by staying locked up with out a treatment until you say we should be Sweden? 

And it is not a false dichotomy because the fact is the vast majority of people who catch this will survive, and those odds go up significantly the younger you are.  Fact is, the economy would continue to chug along, perhaps a little weaker, but no where near how weak it is now.  The vast majority of working age people would be fine and we would not be destroying the economy. 

It is a very real choice. 

And like I said previously, I'm still waiting for FL to fall into the abyss.  It's been two weeks since I was told "just wait two weeks."  Still has not happened yet, but I'm sure you'll tell me to wait two more weeks, and then two after that, right?  Armageddon will get here eventually. 

The problem with making predictions is that eventually you can see if they came true, and most dont. 

[chez]

Social distancing is a crime against humanity. And masks are simply stupid.

Oh you poor baby...your rights being oh so violated. I know...why don't you grab your gun and go protest rather than sitting caged up on your computer.