PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[Alan Klein]

Both are equally his responsibility so most probably for both.

Cheers,
Bernard

He's not opening the country. The governors are. He didn't start the virus.  The Chinese did and kept it secret while sending their hordes around the world to infect Italians, Spaniards, Americans, and everyone else. Don't you ever have anything nice to say about us?  It's really getting old.

[Craig Lamson]

He's not opening the country. The governors are. He didn't start the virus.  The Chinese did and kept it secret while sending their hordes around the world to infect Italians, Spaniards, Americans, and everyone else. Don't you ever have anything nice to say about us?  It's really getting old.

Poor Bernard, he seems to think Germany did such a better job than the US because they were "timely" and we were not.  But Germany did not do a lockdown until March 22, much later than its neighbors.  They closed schools on March 13th. but not the rest of the country. 

The US Federal government issued a National Emergency on March 13th. 33 States closed schools on March 15th.  The Federal government made its 15 days guidence on the March 16, and by March 22, Washington, Oregon, California, Louisiana, Illinois, Ohio, New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey locked down.  Many other states folllowed.

I can't believe the smartest guy in the world got this wrong.

[Alan Klein]

It can't go down.

Flatten out.

[Alan Klein]

And there it is, now starting to change talkin points. 

In a couple of weeks you will be blaming the economy on Trump while ignoring you were for even worse lock downs.  It is going to be funny. 

FYI, Obama did not reduce the debt.  Where did you get that from?   And insofar as healthcare, Obama's policy increased rates beyond belief and made it even less affordable.  The free market was working well before Obama stepped in a screwed it up with over regulations. 

And Biden's plan will doing nothing  but put us on a path to single payer government provides all insurance. 

It will be a single-payer plan that pays for medical and everything else.  At least Sen. McConnell is talking about stopping the currency presses.  We'll see if his nerve holds up. 

[Alan Klein]

I can't imagine armed uprising in USA. It wouldn't end well.

It didn't.  Approximately 700,000 Americans died on both sides during our Civil War. And that was with muskets and other single shot guns for the most part. 

[LesPalenik]

It didn't.  Approximately 700,000 Americans died on both sides during our Civil War. And that was with muskets and other single shot guns for the most part.

If they won't find a vaccine soon, this virus could kill as many in a year or two.

[Craig Lamson]

Interesting stats. 

Germany is touted as doing a great job with covid.  They have a population of about 90 million. Rounded upward current numbers are 165K cases and 7,000 deaths.

If we take the three largest States in the US, Calfornia, Texas and Florida and combine them we get a population of around 90 million.

With the same rounding, Calif has 55K cases and 2300 deaths.  Texas has 32K cases and 900 deaths. Florida has 36K cases and 1400 deaths. 

Totaled:  123K cases and 4600 deaths.

So how does that compare to the "gold standard", Germany?
 

[JoeKitchen]

I have been very consistent on this. Had Trump taken the right measures timely he would have killed the pandemic like Germany did. And the impact on economy would have been a lot less. So yes, there is zero doubt whatsoever that a large part of the economic impact is due to Trump’s hesitations and long downplay of the pandemic.
‘
The same downplay you admitted yesterday but, very creatively, blamed on the press. 

Apologies, I got confused will Bill Clinton.

The view that healthcare was working in the US before Obamacare is, to say the least, a significant departure from reality.

Cheers,
Bernard

LOL Bernard.  No, you have such a giant case TDS that you automatically have to blame everything  on Trump, even if the positions you hold are contradictions. 

BTW healthcare was working for nearly everyone pre-Obama.  There was a few it did not work for, but that is the case with every system.  And to completely remake a system that works  for nearly everyone just for the 8% or so it did not work for is total stupidity. 

[Alan Klein]

Well that goes without saying, however who wins would be up in the air.

Just because a government is significantly more well armed then who it is fighting does not mean it will win.  The rebels in the 1770s beat the extremely well armed British, and 200 years later the poorly armed rebels in Vietnam beat the extremely well equipped USA military. 

So the idea of an armed citizenry not being able to bet a much more armed government is a false statement. 

It's a false argument for another reason.  Most people think the rebellion would be between the people and the federal government and all the armies under its control.  That's what people on the left want us to believe to make it seem how hopeless private guns would be.  But it may look more like our Civil War where the states made the argument. 

Let's say Trump became a dictator took over the federal government. State leaders like Governor Cuomo and other governors would stand up to him and have a call to arms.  States control many Reserve and National Guard forces.  And those commanders will be loyal to their states.  This happened in our Civil War when federal Generals left the US Army to fight for their southern state's Confederate army.  So we would have another fight between the federal government and many states.  The people supported by state governments and their resources.  A governor's call to arms would have everyone showing up with their private guns.  This is the whole point of the 2nd Amendment.  Without the private guns, governors could do little.

What many foreigners don't realize is the idea of the state, the federal relationship between the US national government in DC and the various 50 states, protects the country from a dictatorship. If you live in a country without this federal relationship, you don't see how it protects the rights of individuals like in America.  Frankly, the divided and limited powers between state and national governments is why we've been able to keep the same government for 225 years, despite the fracture that occurred in the Civil War. 

[JoeKitchen]

No, your only stop against tyranny is your critical thinking as a free man. Sorry I meant should be because you have demonstrated time and again that you are very much willing to give up on that in favor of a blind support to whatever Trump says.

Regards,
Bernard

Yes, I am sure all the critical thinking done in Venezuela will eventually work it out, right? 

No, when your freedom is taken, you need to take it back.  If the government disarmed you, it becomes nearly impossible though. 

[chez]

He's not opening the country. The governors are. He didn't start the virus.  The Chinese did and kept it secret while sending their hordes around the world to infect Italians, Spaniards, Americans, and everyone else. Don't you ever have anything nice to say about us?  It's really getting old.

It's not where the virus originated...it's how Trump handled it that is disgraceful. Just like how he handled the hurricane that hit Puerto Rico...disgraceful.

Shit happens...it's how you handle the shit that counts.

[Alan Klein]

Hopefully, am armed citizenry will help prevent a dictatorship from forming in the first place as he sees the forces gathered against him.  So those guys showing up fully armed with AR-15's at a state capital is a show of arms of the citizenry and why they should not be banned.  It's insurance against a dictatorship. 

[Alan Klein]

No, your only stop against tyranny is your critical thinking as a free man. Sorry I meant should be because you have demonstrated time and again that you are very much willing to give up on that in favor of a blind support to whatever Trump says.

Regards,
Bernard

An armed citizenry is insurance against a Trump dictatorship. Guns help regardless of the political philosophy of the dictator.  They help all sides.

[JoeKitchen]

It's not where the virus originated...it's how Trump handled it that is disgraceful. Just like how he handled the hurricane that hit Puerto Rico...disgraceful.

Shit happens...it's how you handle the shit that counts.

PR handled the hurricane like shit, just like New Orleans handled Katrina like shit.  Plenty of heads rolled in PR recently over this.  It was the reposciblity of the local politicians in New Orlean to maintain the levies, but instead they used the moneys given for other projects and to pad their accounts.  The mayor told everyone to stay in the city and not evacuate even though the contrary was recommended.  But when the press reported, the locals were the heroes and Bush was not. 

It was all local government failures.  The difference is the press goes out of their way to admonish republican presidents over these things whereas with Dems they praise them. 

[chez]

PR handled the hurricane like shit, just like New Orleans handled Katrina like shit.  Plenty of heads rolled in PR recently over this.  It was the reposciblity of the local politicians in New Orlean to maintain the levies, but instead they used the moneys given for other projects and to pad their accounts.  The mayor told everyone to stay in the city and not evacuate even though the contrary was recommended.  But when the press reported, the locals were the heroes and Bush was not. 

It was all local government failures.  The difference is the press goes out of their way to admonish republican presidents over these things whereas with Dems they praise them.

If everything is the responsibility of local governments...what the hell is the president responsible for. Oh wait...if something good happens ( by chance ) he takes centre stage and bows to his sheeple...but if something fucks up ( which is happening a lot ) he quickly distances himself and starts blaming everyone but himself. Not a leader...but a coward.

[Alan Klein]

If they won't find a vaccine soon, this virus could kill as many in a year or two.

Why do you think I've been sitting home for 7 weeks?  With my wife? 

[Alan Klein]

LOL Bernard.  No, you have such a giant case TDS that you automatically have to blame everything  on Trump, even if the positions you hold are contradictions. 

BTW healthcare was working for nearly everyone pre-Obama.  There was a few it did not work for, but that is the case with every system.  And to completely remake a system that works  for nearly everyone just for the 8% or so it did not work for is total stupidity. 

If we just extended the Medicaid plans to help those 8% and added protection for pre-existing conditions and left everything else alone, it would have been done already and been working great.  What's the expression?  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Alan Klein]

It's not where the virus originated...it's how Trump handled it that is disgraceful. Just like how he handled the hurricane that hit Puerto Rico...disgraceful.

Shit happens...it's how you handle the shit that counts.

Well, we'll see how it works out. It's too soon to tell.  If the deaths are limited and the economy comes back, Trump will get the credit.  If not, he'll probably be fired.

[BernardLanguillier]

Poor Bernard, he seems to think Germany did such a better job than the US because they were "timely" and we were not.  But Germany did not do a lockdown until March 22, much later than its neighbors.  They closed schools on March 13th. but not the rest of the country. 

The US Federal government issued a National Emergency on March 13th. 33 States closed schools on March 15th.  The Federal government made its 15 days guidence on the March 16, and by March 22, Washington, Oregon, California, Louisiana, Illinois, Ohio, New York, Massachusetts and New Jersey locked down.  Many other states folllowed.

They did it timely considering the situation they were facing.

But Germany isn’t the point. The situation today speaks for itself.

Regards,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

He's not opening the country. The governors are. He didn't start the virus.  The Chinese did and kept it secret while sending their hordes around the world to infect Italians, Spaniards, Americans, and everyone else. Don't you ever have anything nice to say about us?  It's really getting old.

Who is us?

Are you under the impression that you are representing the US? Many here seem to strongly disagree with this view.

Regards,
Bernard