PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[KLaban]

Left, right, left, right, left, right...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

No, you can't chalk it up to your hero: moving out of China - if it actually happens - is to increase business and physical employment at home, in Japan, nothing to do with pleasing that idiot in the US....

Which is exactly what Trump did. Japan and others are doing the same, not, of course, to please him, but following his lead.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Trump can use those words of God as his campaign commercial

[Alan Klein]

Haha... people have not yet learned the Trump lingo after three years? His style? His negotiation tricks? He trolls governors, and, of course, they took the bait and jumped to defend their prerogatives. Which, of course, shows that for many things Trump has been accused of in handling the C19, he simply didn’t have the constitutional authority. People can’t have it both ways... accuse him of behaving like a dictator pre-C19, then wishing he actually behaves like one during C19.

+1
Or saying he should have shut down the country earlier but now doesn't have the authority to re-open the country on his timetable. That now it's the governor's prerogative.  You can't have it both ways. If it's the governor's prerogative to reopen, then  they were also responsible for not shutting down their states earlier?

[Robert Roaldi]

We know exactly what will happen if we continue this, the economy will collapse!  So I want better answers then we just don’t know.

I understand, not knowing is stressful. But what if we just don't know, you may want a better answer but maybe there isn't one.

Removing restrictions also carries risk. As I asked earlier, what is going to happen between now and the time that restrictions are removed to mitigate against a resurgence of infections. Doesn't seem to me that we know that either. Doesn't that unknown bother you?

I don't think that we can rely on some of the magic that has been touted up till now. Spring temperature increases probably won't slow down infection, it has been warm in the southern US throughout this period and that didn't stop transmission. We won't have "herd immunity" yet (and I think people are confused about what that means anyway). We won't have vaccines and not likely to have good treatments soon enough, although we might get lucky with that. So if restrictions are removed and we end up back where we are now, won't we have wasted a lot of time and effort.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Time for the Corona-obsessed  and all Corona lovers to exit the main economy highway and stay at home:

[Alan Klein]

An update on the USS Theodore Roosevelt saga.

Apr-5    116 infected
Apr-12, 1 dead 584 quarantined

The coronavirus crisis aboard the carrier Theodore Roosevelt spurred another chapter in the hollowing out of the Navy’s leadership, in particular under the Trump administration.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there are breakouts of the virus in many US ships around the world disabling many of our operations.  Also on air bases army and air bases. But it's being kept quiet for security reasons. Ships are particularly vulnerable since they can be out in the ocean away from support.  And there's no way to isolate the sailors from each other.   

Disease used to be a major cause of casualties in war causing lost battles and even losing wars.  I remember when I was transferred to the Pacific in the 1960's, they gave us shots for Typhus, Typhoid, and a couple of other diseases.  I actually came down with a case of staph infection that ate big holes in my skin in three places.  But that was while I was in Mississippi. Keeping troops healthy so they fight and die is a big issue to the military.

[Robert Roaldi]

Time for the Corona-obsessed  and all Corona lovers to exit the main economy highway and stay at home:

What if the call comes for people to go back to work and a lot of them respond with, "Ok, you first." 

Because as awful as not working and staying at home is, dying might be worse.

[JoeKitchen]

I understand, not knowing is stressful. But what if we just don't know, you may want a better answer but maybe there isn't one.

Removing restrictions also carries risk. As I asked earlier, what is going to happen between now and the time that restrictions are removed to mitigate against a resurgence of infections. Doesn't seem to me that we know that either. Doesn't that unknown bother you?

I don't think that we can rely on some of the magic that has been touted up till now. Spring temperature increases probably won't slow down infection, it has been warm in the southern US throughout this period and that didn't stop transmission. We won't have "herd immunity" yet (and I think people are confused about what that means anyway). We won't have vaccines and not likely to have good treatments soon enough, although we might get lucky with that. So if restrictions are removed and we end up back where we are now, won't we have wasted a lot of time and effort.

Well, let's start planning off of what we know, not what we dont.  Pretty simple.

No, that unknown does not bother me at this time.  Plus, NYC, the current epi-center, has had no fatalities due to lack of care.  So, I think our healthcare system is up to the task. 

If spring temps wont slow down infections, then we are screwed either way.  I'd rather only be screwed one way, from the virus, then two ways, from the virus and a total collapse.  Pretty simple stuff.  And the idea that we can continue this until August, or longer, is foolhardy to say the least. 

Not to mention we can start opening up parts of the economy that are not as risky and allow those who are of lower risk get back out there. 

All pretty simple, and it is going to happen.  We can either have a controlled version, or people are going to stop caring and do it anyway. 

Rep. Andy Biggs, a Republican from AZ, just yesterday on the radio said, "I think it's time ... for Dr. Fauci to move along, I mean, he shouldn't have a seat at the table. He shouldn't be making decisions that are basically impacting this country in a way that we haven't even considered. ... he has not considered economic or societal or social fallout for his remedy for the epidemic. And if that's the case, I think he gets some credit for where we stand today, but I think it's time for him to move on. ... Look, if you've got a retail shop and you open up there isn't anybody in Arizona, nobody is going to stop you,"

Is this the release you want, uncontrolled where everyone scoffs at the law, or something more controlled.  Either way, something will happen. 

[Rob C]

Which is exactly what Trump did. Japan and others are doing the same, not, of course, to please him, but following his lead.

You think other countries need his lead, can't think for themselves? Please, Slobodan, that's not worthy of you; as you well know, he's the last guy sane leaders might choose to follow.

Rob

[Alan Klein]

It's a victory for robots.

With a lot of people going to be out of work, the cost of labor will drop unless the government stupidly imposes more minimum wages.  That will make it economic to bring certain manufacturing back to the US and lessen the move to robots.  On the other hand, less international trade may lower the costs for labor in China and other supplier nations as well lowering manufacturing costs there.  I think there's going to be a lot of movement for awhile until things settle down again to some balance. 

[faberryman]

More nursing home patients fell down the stairs.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/42-dead-at-virginia-nursing-home-due-to-coronavirus-624591

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

You think other countries need his lead, can't think for themselves? Please, Slobodan, that's not worthy of you; as you well know, he's the last guy sane leaders might choose to follow.

And yet... nobody did it before he showed what's possible.

[JoeKitchen]

What if the call comes for people to go back to work and a lot of them respond with, "Ok, you first." 

Because as awful as not working and staying at home is, dying might be worse.

I'll gladly answer that question Chicken Little. 

[JoeKitchen]

In all of this, I think it is important to look at Sweden, which has taken a completely different approach.  Many on here will say Sweden is screwed, but their deaths per million is on par with many other nations take much more draconian measures.

They simply are not doing any worse then many others, and yet they have managed to thread the needle much better then we have and the rest of the world.

It is time to get back to work, or at least those of us 60 and younger.  If you want to be a Chicken Little and stay locked up in your house, so be it.  But dont make your choice mine as well, because I am willing to risk getting it as opposed to loosing economically, which is exactly what will happen if we continue this. 

[Rob C]

Well, let's start planning off of what we know, not what we dont.  Pretty simple.

No, that unknown does not bother me at this time.  Plus, NYC, the current epi-center, has had no fatalities due to lack of care.  So, I think our healthcare system is up to the task. 

If spring temps wont slow down infections, then we are screwed either way.  I'd rather only be screwed one way, from the virus, then two ways, from the virus and a total collapse.  Pretty simple stuff.  And the idea that we can continue this until August, or longer, is foolhardy to say the least. 

Not to mention we can start opening up parts of the economy that are not as risky and allow those who are of lower risk get back out there. 

All pretty simple, and it is going to happen.  We can either have a controlled version, or people are going to stop caring and do it anyway. 

Rep. Andy Biggs, a Republican from AZ, just yesterday on the radio said, "I think it's time ... for Dr. Fauci to move along, I mean, he shouldn't have a seat at the table. He shouldn't be making decisions that are basically impacting this country in a way that we haven't even considered. ... he has not considered economic or societal or social fallout for his remedy for the epidemic. And if that's the case, I think he gets some credit for where we stand today, but I think it's time for him to move on. ... Look, if you've got a retail shop and you open up there isn't anybody in Arizona, nobody is going to stop you,"

How do you know? How do you measure availability levels of equipment at the right time to save early lives lost? How do you measure or count those that died outside of hospital beds from the same cause? Worldwide that has been a glitch in the touted numbers: folks just don't know because the numbers have not been collated: there is the little matter of working to save life in real time that is more important than counting beans; that may or may not be done later.

Don't think your country is alone: as our lying politicos stand at their pretty podiums every day to deliver their messages to the nation and spout their versions of how well they are on top of things, especially in the matter of supplying PPE, within five minutes of those declarations we see the head honchos of those at the coalface telling the world that they have been hearing all this before, for weeks, but they still do not have the gear that they need. Sadly, they are too polite, too British to tell it like it is and just call those politicos friggin' barefaced liars.

[Robert Roaldi]

Well, let's start planning off of what we know, not what we dont.  Pretty simple.

No, that unknown does not bother me at this time.  Plus, NYC, the current epi-center, has had no fatalities due to lack of care.  So, I think our healthcare system is up to the task. 

If spring temps wont slow down infections, then we are screwed either way.  I'd rather only be screwed one way, from the virus, then two ways, from the virus and a total collapse.  Pretty simple stuff.  And the idea that we can continue this until August, or longer, is foolhardy to say the least. 

Not to mention we can start opening up parts of the economy that are not as risky and allow those who are of lower risk get back out there. 

All pretty simple, and it is going to happen.  We can either have a controlled version, or people are going to stop caring and do it anyway. 

Rep. Andy Biggs, a Republican from AZ, just yesterday on the radio said, "I think it's time ... for Dr. Fauci to move along, I mean, he shouldn't have a seat at the table. He shouldn't be making decisions that are basically impacting this country in a way that we haven't even considered. ... he has not considered economic or societal or social fallout for his remedy for the epidemic. And if that's the case, I think he gets some credit for where we stand today, but I think it's time for him to move on. ... Look, if you've got a retail shop and you open up there isn't anybody in Arizona, nobody is going to stop you,"

Is this the release you want, uncontrolled where everyone scoffs at the law, or something more controlled.  Either way, something will happen.

All valid discussion points until you got to the Fauci take-down. Do you really think he doesn't understand all the variables that a bunch of yobs on a photo forum have dreamed up? Give me a break. He has done the job through 4 (or is it 6) Presidents now, I'm sure he has seen it all and knows far more about it than you or me. Has the Trump-troll-propaganda machine decided that Fauci is out now because he's polling better than Trump. Why wouldn't you want his voice at the table?

[JoeKitchen]

All valid discussion points until you got to the Fauci take-down. Do you really think he doesn't understand all the variables that a bunch of yobs on a photo forum have dreamed up? Give me a break. He has done the job through 4 (or is it 6) Presidents now, I'm sure he has seen it all and knows far more about it than you or me. Has the Trump-troll-propaganda machine decided that Fauci is out now because he's polling better than Trump. Why wouldn't you want his voice at the table?

First, it was not me who said it.  I merely provided the quote to show that this opening up the economy is picking up steam.  When house members start openly talking about it, you start to be on the loosing side.  If you fight it, you are just not going to win. 

Like I said, would you rather have a everyone just goes out and does their thing, or have a more controlled release?  If you keep on fighting this, you're just going to be ignored like those sidewalk preachers downtown. 

Second, Dr. Fauci's expertise is in pandemics, not economics.  Like I mentioned before, experts, by definition, have a very narrow field of view, so he has no credibility on economic issues, and it shows.  He may know more then you or I on pandemics, but certainly not on economics.  That is why we have separate experts called economists.  We should be listening to both him and economists to find a path forward, which needs to determined by our leaders not experts.

Last, as Alan pointed out, experts are not always right. 

[JoeKitchen]

How do you know? How do you measure availability levels of equipment at the right time to save early lives lost? How do you measure or count those that died outside of hospital beds from the same cause? Worldwide that has been a glitch in the touted numbers: folks just don't know because the numbers have not been collated: there is the little matter of working to save life in real time that is more important than counting beans; that may or may not be done later.

Don't think your country is alone: as our lying politicos stand at their pretty podiums every day to deliver their messages to the nation and spout their versions of how well they are on top of things, especially in the matter of supplying PPE, within five minutes of those declarations we see the head honchos of those at the coalface telling the world that they have been hearing all this before, for weeks, but they still do not have the gear that they need. Sadly, they are too polite, too British to tell it like it is and just call those politicos friggin' barefaced liars.

Because Andrew Cuomo, the governor of NY, has been saying this repeatably on the news. 

Pretty easy question. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Second, Dr. Fauci's expertise is in pandemics, not economics.  Like I mentioned before, experts, by definition, have a very narrow field of view, so he has no credibility on economic issues, and it shows.  He may know more then you or I on pandemics, but certainly not on economics.  That is why we have separate experts called economists.  We should be listening to both him and economists to find a path forward, which needs to determined by our leaders not experts.

Right, so what's wrong with having them all at the table? It's not as if on the day you start to lift restrictions that the pandemic will go away.

What's the benefit of having him gone? Is it so important that no one contradict Trump? Is that really what's important here.