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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 496965 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6440 on: July 22, 2020, 10:23:29 pm »

Yes, 235 deaths per million is still a large number. There are other countries, like Finland, Hungary, or Austria which have only 60-80 deaths per million.
In Canada, most deaths occurred in the first stage of the outbreak, and 80% of those deaths were in long-term care homes. In Quebec, 90% of the deaths were in such facilities.
The current infections and fatalities are now much lower than in just a few months ago, despite reopening slowly the economy and other places. For example, today there were only 8 deaths in Canada vs 1205 in USA. In relative terms, the new deaths per million in Canada were less than 1% of the new deaths in USA.
I think I'll move to Canada.  It's not only safer there, but cooler too.   93 degree F (34 C) here today where I live, and muggy as heck. 

As an aside, if 80% and 90% were old people, why not just keep them protected at home and let the rest of Canadians out to work? 

pschefz

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6441 on: July 22, 2020, 10:27:10 pm »

It really blows my mind that there is still someone here desperately defending a republican government at a point when the failures and hypocrisies are so obvious my kids are starting to worry about the mental state of grown ups...
Blaming some governors for the latest outbreaks? Does it really not register that without a top down country wide set of measures (lock-down, masks, tests!, tests! Tracking!) no local measures can really succeed?
How many Canadians would not have died if there would have been a sane person in charge in the US, the neighboring country with borders wide open?
I happen to know that Austria took very, very drastic measures early on including closing borders to Italy (also in the EU and a major trade partner and friend) masks, curfews, lock down....it worked...of course it worked...not every country is like china where a hospital is built within 2 days but we all saw what happened and everybody had plenty of time....
There are people here who spewed the same idiotic moronic nonsense coming from leading republicans....and trump having his hunches that it will all go away in the summer heat...tell that to Texas, Florida and California right now....we all knew what had to be done...nobody liked it or wanted to do it...governors had to stand up and go their own way, being ridiculed and worse....but again, it does not help if i am wearing a mask and wash my hands and social distance if the next guy does not....so California shutting down did not work because the other states did not.....
I am not sure in which way that is hard to understand....unless you just do not want to...
I am blow away that the same people (like Texas AG who started his days suing Obama) now governor is forcing democratic majors in Texas to open up...
When the same people who scream for the freedom of states and counties now defend (literally) tanks rolling into cities WHO DO NOT WANT THEM....and don’t want them for good reasons....
Money...it is simple, so simple...NOT shutting down, NOT looking at other countries, listening to simple facts and science and thereby dragging this thing out is costing more money...doing REAL damage to the economy...Europe and china are already talking about packages to really restart the slowdown....the US? Will have to spend a LOT more money to even keep the wheels from falling off....and no end in sight....
It still takes day or close to a week to get COVID test results in big cities......if you can even get a test...THAT IS INSANE....and if i have to spell it out: by the time you have the result, contact has been made with x people who came in contact with x people and so on....and since there is no tracking or tracing, nobody even knows....
The incompetence in the White House is one thing but people actually defending it is mind numbing....
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6442 on: July 22, 2020, 10:31:28 pm »

It really blows my mind that there is still someone here desperately defending a republican government at a point when the failures and hypocrisies are so obvious my kids are starting to worry about the mental state of grown ups...
Blaming some governors for the latest outbreaks? Does it really not register that without a top down country wide set of measures (lock-down, masks, tests!, tests! Tracking!) no local measures can really succeed?
How many Canadians would not have died if there would have been a sane person in charge in the US, the neighboring country with borders wide open?
I happen to know that Austria took very, very drastic measures early on including closing borders to Italy (also in the EU and a major trade partner and friend) masks, curfews, lock down....it worked...of course it worked...not every country is like china where a hospital is built within 2 days but we all saw what happened and everybody had plenty of time....
There are people here who spewed the same idiotic moronic nonsense coming from leading republicans....and trump having his hunches that it will all go away in the summer heat...tell that to Texas, Florida and California right now....we all knew what had to be done...nobody liked it or wanted to do it...governors had to stand up and go their own way, being ridiculed and worse....but again, it does not help if i am wearing a mask and wash my hands and social distance if the next guy does not....so California shutting down did not work because the other states did not.....
I am not sure in which way that is hard to understand....unless you just do not want to...
I am blow away that the same people (like Texas AG who started his days suing Obama) now governor is forcing democratic majors in Texas to open up...
When the same people who scream for the freedom of states and counties now defend (literally) tanks rolling into cities WHO DO NOT WANT THEM....and don’t want them for good reasons....
Money...it is simple, so simple...NOT shutting down, NOT looking at other countries, listening to simple facts and science and thereby dragging this thing out is costing more money...doing REAL damage to the economy...Europe and china are already talking about packages to really restart the slowdown....the US? Will have to spend a LOT more money to even keep the wheels from falling off....and no end in sight....
It still takes day or close to a week to get COVID test results in big cities......if you can even get a test...THAT IS INSANE....and if i have to spell it out: by the time you have the result, contact has been made with x people who came in contact with x people and so on....and since there is no tracking or tracing, nobody even knows....
The incompetence in the White House is one thing but people actually defending it is mind numbing....
Let me guess.  You didn't vote for Trump in 2016 and you believe he conspired with the Russians. 

pschefz

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6443 on: July 22, 2020, 11:13:45 pm »

Let me guess.  You didn't vote for Trump in 2016 and you believe he conspired with the Russians.
Not sure what that has to do with what i posted?
Or is that how you look at the world?
Head in the sand? Finger in the ear if you don’t want to listen to what you know is true?
Nothing i posted is really debatable, simple truths and facts that are easy to check....no world wide conspiracy....
There are plenty of things that aren’t as clean cut and might be argued one way or another...
But it is a simple fact that the US actually had plenty of time to look at other places where things were bad, prepare and come up with a strategy...
Trump not only refused to listen, he actively discredited every attempt to prepare....
And even attacked people who did...
This is not blue vs red and anyone who brings up the economy has to look at the numbers....by actively dragging this out (by not having a national response when most other countries did) this will not only cost much more but do much longer lasting damage...
Of course those those bankrupt socialist countries (like Germany Austria, France, ) have an easier situation...”everybody stay home” there means your unemployment will be deposited on time and you obviously wont loose your healthcare....makes it much easier to expect people to actually stay home without fear of being homeless without health insurance in a few weeks....still not easy and those countries will have to deal with the consequences as well.....
But then those corrupt places also spend their taxes on crazy things like education, healthcare, childcare, infrastructure,....instead of blowing things up around the world to make sure we can drive bigger cars and build huge inefficient houses...
Coal is good, solar is bad.....yeah that slogan will hold up well in 50 years...
But its all alternative truths and alternative facts....
and the guy in charge of a worldwide pandemic does not wear masks but prays, because we all know that definitely helps...
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6444 on: July 23, 2020, 01:03:58 am »

Whatever.

faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6445 on: July 23, 2020, 06:59:41 am »

Whatever.

Says the man imprisoned in his own home.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6446 on: July 23, 2020, 07:45:09 am »

Whatever.

Please watch this short video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t7AMbbQUHw, about what's going on in Portland. Not only does the mayor want that federal troop 'surge' to leave but the state's attorney general has launched a lawsuit to get them to leave.

I recall on several instances that one of the reasons you like and appreciate USA's 2nd amendment rights is because you believe that citizens need firearms to protect themselves from arbitrary government action. Do you see this as a possible case of that? Shouldn't freedom-loving militia be out there defending Portland from the federal government?

What if one such group emerged? Would you support them?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6447 on: July 23, 2020, 07:50:53 am »

I happen to really enjoy irony, so this story presses all my buttons, https://thebulwark.com/trumps-new-ad-is-amazing/?utm_source=afternoon-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=The+Bulwark+Newsletter&utm_campaign=3a74fdb281-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_07_22_09_27&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f4bd64ac2e-3a74fdb281-80878050.. It is about an ad campaign being used by the Trump campaign that uses photographs whore ironic backstory is too 'funny' for words.

Are the people doing these things utterly incompetent or are they just confident that hardly anyone will notice?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6448 on: July 23, 2020, 08:58:01 am »

I happen to really enjoy irony, so this story presses all my buttons, https://thebulwark.com/trumps-new-ad-is-amazing/?utm_source=afternoon-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=The+Bulwark+Newsletter&utm_campaign=3a74fdb281-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_07_22_09_27&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f4bd64ac2e-3a74fdb281-80878050.. It is about an ad campaign being used by the Trump campaign that uses photographs whore ironic backstory is too 'funny' for words.

Are the people doing these things utterly incompetent or are they just confident that hardly anyone will notice?

This is pretty standard stuff, we are subjected to it by the media often. Whats the problem?  And no, no one will notice or even care. 

I would imagine there are also issues of model releases to be considered since this is not an editorial usage. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 09:02:47 am by Craig Lamson »
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6449 on: July 23, 2020, 09:05:21 am »

Please watch this short video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t7AMbbQUHw, about what's going on in Portland. Not only does the mayor want that federal troop 'surge' to leave but the state's attorney general has launched a lawsuit to get them to leave.

I recall on several instances that one of the reasons you like and appreciate USA's 2nd amendment rights is because you believe that citizens need firearms to protect themselves from arbitrary government action. Do you see this as a possible case of that? Shouldn't freedom-loving militia be out there defending Portland from the federal government?

What if one such group emerged? Would you support them?

The Federal officers are defending federal property.  It's the people attacking the Federal Government. Not the other way around.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6450 on: July 23, 2020, 09:54:30 am »

The Federal officers are defending federal property.  It's the people attacking the Federal Government. Not the other way around.

I have not been following this too closely, but have the Federal agents actually arrested and charged anyone? I just see the Federal agents tear gassing and beating them, and it does not seem to be improving the situation. Obviously I am no law enforcement expert, but Trump said he was going to put protesters in jail for ten years, and if the Federal agents caught a couple of them and started criminal prosecutions with that sort of penalty, it might act as a deterrent.
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Peter McLennan

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6451 on: July 23, 2020, 09:59:10 am »

Whatever.

Classic rightist response when confronted with facts they don’t like.

Also heard frequently from teenagers for the same reason.

But I digress...  Alan, are you going to read Mary Trump’s book?

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Peter McLennan

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6452 on: July 23, 2020, 10:00:35 am »

... It's the people attacking the Federal Government...

Yah.  With spray paint.

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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6453 on: July 23, 2020, 10:04:10 am »

Yah.  With spray paint.

Wow, you really don't watch the news, do you?
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6454 on: July 23, 2020, 10:08:42 am »

I have not been following this too closely, but have the Federal agents actually arrested and charged anyone? I just see the Federal agents tear gassing and beating them, and it does not seem to be improving the situation. Obviously I am no law enforcement expert, but Trump said he was going to put protesters in jail for ten years, and if the Federal agents caught a couple of them and started criminal prosecutions with that sort of penalty, it might act as a deterrent.

Yea they are making arrests. And the Justice Department is starting prosecutions.  However the good folks of Portland for example think its ok to keep doing what they are doing.  Even the Mayor got in on the action last night. 

Makes a great case that the "progressive" party is the one to back.
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6455 on: July 23, 2020, 10:13:11 am »

Yea they are making arrests. And the Justice Department is starting prosecutions.  However the good folks of Portland for example think its ok to keep doing what they are doing.  Even the Mayor got in on the action last night.

It may be a PR problem. I haven't seen anything about arrests and prosecutions. I can't believe those moms would link arms and form a circle around the group of protesters to protect them if they knew they might get ten years in prison. I mean if they are moms, presumably they have kids at home. But maybe just beating the moms is deterrent enough.

One further thought. I saw this Disney movie when I was a kid. It was set in the time of knights and castles. There was this scene where the good guy and the bad guy were having a sword fight up and down a staircase. All of a sudden, the bad guy steps off the stairs and into a window frame and says: "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day" and jumps. It seems like the federal agents are just letting the protesters jump out the window. Just something to think about.

I will say I am not too keen on the federal agents not wearing identification and using unmarked cars. Anyone could dress up in camo and drive down there, join in the melee, and start beating people senseless for the hell of it. Things could get out of hand. Isn't Oregon where, a couple of years ago, a bunch of nut jobs wielding guns took over a national park to protest having to pay the government for grazing rights? Or maybe it was Nevada. Somewhere out there.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 11:09:32 am by faberryman »
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6456 on: July 23, 2020, 10:23:02 am »

Yeah ok, so now the mayor of Portland is taking part in violent demonstrations. Sure he is.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6457 on: July 23, 2020, 10:34:41 am »

Yeah ok, so now the mayor of Portland is taking part in violent demonstrations. Sure he is.

Don't try and put words in my mouth.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/portland-mayors-security-teams-scuffles-with-protesters-after-listening-session
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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6458 on: July 23, 2020, 10:40:47 am »

It may be a PR problem. I haven't seen anything about arrests and prosecutions.

On further thought. I saw this Disney movie when I was a kid. It was set in the time of knights and castles. There was this scene where the good guy and the bad guy were having a sword fight going up and down a staircase. All of a sudden, the bad guy steps off the stairs and into a window frame and says: "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day" and jumps. It seems like the federal agents are just letting the protesters jump out the window. Just something to think about.

I will say I am not too keen on the federal agents not wearing identification and using unmarked cars. Anyone could dress up and drive down there and start beating people for the hell of it. Things could get out of hand. Isn't Oregon where, a couple of years ago, a bunch of nut jobs wielding guns took over a national park to protest having to pay the government for grazing rights?

Who says they were not wearing identification.  The images I have seen on tv show they had "police" markings on their uniforms as well as "badges" for lack of a better term showing what agency they worked for.  As far as unmarked cars, Police do that all of the time as well as going as plain clothes officers.

Arrests in Portland.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/21/politics/portland-arrests/index.html

Federal charges filed against protestors

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-07-07/federal-charges-filed-for-7-protesters-in-portland-oregon
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 11:55:13 am by Craig Lamson »
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #6459 on: July 23, 2020, 11:03:47 am »

Classic rightist response when confronted with facts they don’t like.

Also heard frequently from teenagers for the same reason.

But I digress...  Alan, are you going to read Mary Trump’s book?


I said "Whatever" because I didn't understand a word pschefz said nor would I know how to respond to them.  His posts were both incomprehensible.  :)  No thanks,  I'll skip Mary's book. 
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