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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 515010 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5760 on: June 23, 2020, 08:10:22 am »

Which will be just as irrelevant the next time they're repeated...

But not irrelevant when the same stats are selectively reduced to "prove" blacks are disproportionally targeted by the police?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5761 on: June 23, 2020, 08:17:19 am »

Fair enough.

I can only plead with everyone to refrain from personal insults. It is obvious that each side strongly dislikes the other side's opinion, and by extension, sometimes dislikes the person expressing it, but can we at least attempt to have a discussion based on facts and opinions, rather than insults?

Robert Roaldi

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5762 on: June 23, 2020, 09:17:46 am »

Nor it is racist, as a white guy ended up dead under almost the same circumstances in Dallas a few years ago, not even being a criminal, but schizophrenic off his medication (I posted a WaPo link about it a few pages back).

Strictly speaking, just because a white guy died in similar circumstances somewhere else does not disprove racism in this case. But I understand what you're getting at, the charge of racism is not necessarily proved either. We don't know what was going through the mind of the police officer who did the killing, but that kind of disregard for other people's lives is not what a civilized society should expect from a police force, imo.

If your society really believes that there is war in the streets of your cities, you had better find more creative ways to deal with it because it's hair-brained to think that tougher cops with tanks will fix that.

Taking a step back though, it might show some problems with how police respond to situations. In the Floyd case, I believe it that the guy could still be a hazard while handcuffed. But sitting on his neck (for 9 min, I read elsewhere) is no accident, legal semantics aside. May not be murder, sounds more like negligent homicide to me, but I'm not a lawyer and don't really understand the nuances. But it stinks big time. And I don't see what difference it makes how many other crimes Floyd was guilty of. Those other crimes may be reasons for incarcerating him longer but it doesn't give a street cop license to meet out justice. By that point he was restrained, the level of danger was lessened, time to switch to a different mode.

There's something going wrong here. It may not always be precisely racism in each case, but the US needs to figure out what it is. If you behave as if your cities are a war zone, you'll get a war. Civil authority is only respected when people think it's legitimate. The Ken Burns 3-part documentary about Prohibition says more about that than it does about alcohol. Worth watching if you haven't seen it.




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jeremyrh

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5763 on: June 23, 2020, 09:35:20 am »

I can only plead with everyone to refrain from personal insults. It is obvious that each side strongly dislikes the other side's opinion, and by extension, sometimes dislikes the person expressing it, but can we at least attempt to have a discussion based on facts and opinions, rather than insults?

Yo mama.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5764 on: June 23, 2020, 09:51:28 am »

jeremyrh

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5765 on: June 23, 2020, 09:53:39 am »

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Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5766 on: June 23, 2020, 10:01:15 am »

The prejudiced left would respond: "typical brain dead, mis-spelled, right-wing response."  However, I won't.

The "liberal ideal" (unfortunately for you) includes the necessity of validating wild-ass assertions.  If you can back 'em up. Fine.  Let's all hear them and get educated.

If you can't, or won't, it's just more lies and bullshit.

And we're oh, so tired of lies and bullshit.

If this is what passes these day as the liberal "ideal" and logic, no wonder its a failure.  By all means feel free to validate any and all statements.  You have no idea if any assertation is "wild assed" unless you actually research it.
 No one is stopping you.  Realistic folks on the right have been doing it for quite some time now in the face of the glaring disinformation of the left's Fake New organizations.

I suggest you rethink your bolded statement.  Proper logic will tell you more that your two alternatives exist.  The absence of evidence in not evidence of absence.   And of course in the situation that started this, there is no absence of evidence.  Why don't you try and find it? 
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jeremyrh

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5767 on: June 23, 2020, 10:04:35 am »

If this is what passes these day as the liberal "ideal" and logic, no wonder its a failure. 

Zzzzzzz.......
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5768 on: June 23, 2020, 10:06:08 am »

... And I don't see what difference it makes how many other crimes Floyd was guilty of. Those other crimes may be reasons for incarcerating him longer but it doesn't give a street cop license to meet out justice...

Nobody claims otherwise.

But the prior long prison/jail record is important to understand his physical ability to resist getting into the police car. And his criminal record of assaults, home invasion, etc. indicates his mental readiness to do the wrong thing.

jeremyrh

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5769 on: June 23, 2020, 10:11:22 am »

And his criminal record of assaults, home invasion, etc. indicates his mental readiness to do the wrong thing.

"How many divisions has the Pope?"
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faberryman

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5770 on: June 23, 2020, 12:12:27 pm »

"How many divisions has the Pope?"

Speaking of the Pope, the pastors at Dream City Church where Trump will hold his rally in Phoenix today, have a video out touting their new air filtration system which wipes out 99.9% of COVID-19 viruses so everyone will be safe. Praise the Lord and sign the waiver!

https://youtu.be/4XcGE9yz6tI

Honestly, would you buy a used car from these chuckleheads?
« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 12:24:07 pm by faberryman »
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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5771 on: June 23, 2020, 01:35:42 pm »

But not irrelevant when the same stats...

Irrelevant always. Racists and bigots are not the product of statistics. Right Dr. Goebbels?
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Peter McLennan

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5772 on: June 23, 2020, 01:39:20 pm »

Honestly, would you buy a used car from these chuckleheads?

Demonstrably not.  Nor should we believe anything they say in that lame-ass video unless they can prove it.

quoting myself: "Otherwise, it's just all lies and bullshit."
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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5773 on: June 23, 2020, 02:08:05 pm »

Ahmmm...

Disclaimer: it is hard to confirm the authenticity of this.

No it's not, but then that's how propaganda works.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/aoc-businesses-closed-tweet/
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5774 on: June 23, 2020, 02:37:25 pm »

No it's not...

Correct, it was a fake, and I found out a few minutes ago myself. Thanks for providing a link. I removed my post.

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5775 on: June 23, 2020, 02:41:18 pm »

No it's not, but then that's how propaganda works.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/aoc-businesses-closed-tweet/
But you believe Snopes which tends to the left somewhat.  This is just a case of who you want to believe?

Craig Lamson

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5776 on: June 23, 2020, 02:43:57 pm »

Demonstrably not.  Nor should we believe anything they say in that lame-ass video unless they can prove it.

quoting myself: "Otherwise, it's just all lies and bullshit."

No one asked you to believe it nor do you have the right to say what others may choose to believe.  You are not "WE".

You have no idea if its "lies and bullshit".  Thats empty logic. Why not try and verify it instead of blindly vilifying it.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2020, 02:55:46 pm by Craig Lamson »
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TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5777 on: June 23, 2020, 02:52:02 pm »

But you believe Snopes which tends to the left somewhat.  This is just a case of who you want to believe?

No it's not a question of belief. They back up their analysis with external verification and research of the claims.

"This tweet image was a fabrication, however, and not something posted by Ocasio-Cortez. It does not appear in her Twitter timeline, nor was it recorded by databases that capture and preserve deleted tweets.

Moreover, although the tweet was supposedly “shared over 20,000 times,” we could find no instances whatsoever of the original tweet’s having been shared or commented upon at all. It exists only as a screenshot of a faux tweet posted to a private Facebook group."

Here's your opportunity to prove them wrong by finding one of those 20,000 shared tweets that were claimed by the perpetrator of the hoax.
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5778 on: June 23, 2020, 03:19:05 pm »

No it's not a question of belief. They back up their analysis with external verification and research of the claims.

"This tweet image was a fabrication, however, and not something posted by Ocasio-Cortez. It does not appear in her Twitter timeline, nor was it recorded by databases that capture and preserve deleted tweets.

Moreover, although the tweet was supposedly “shared over 20,000 times,” we could find no instances whatsoever of the original tweet’s having been shared or commented upon at all. It exists only as a screenshot of a faux tweet posted to a private Facebook group."

Here's your opportunity to prove them wrong by finding one of those 20,000 shared tweets that were claimed by the perpetrator of the hoax.
I wasn't referring to this one article.  I was making a general point. Snopes selects "proof" that proves their intention just like we pick links that prove ours here when we post.  Often, accuracy is not so much what you include but what you leave out.  All arguments should be taken with a grain of salt.  Discernment should be our guiding light.  We're up to page 289.   Which posts are the truth and which are spin?

TechTalk

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #5779 on: June 23, 2020, 03:30:13 pm »

Snopes selects "proof" that proves their intention

They're human, so that's possible. It requires self-restraint to refrain from asserting subjective opinion as objective fact. So, just show me an example where they have done that and I'll examine the validity of your example. If you find a valid example of that, then we can check to see if they've offered a correction for the error.
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