PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political

[JoeKitchen]

If COVID-19 isn't a problem, why are those gravediggers wearing protective suits?

Elliot was comparing C-19, with an infection fatality rate of 1% with the vast majority being elderly, to Ebola, which has an infection fatality rate of 50% regardless of age or health.  That is 1% vs 50%, with some pretty important caveats for the former on who will die from it. 

Saying C-19 is similar to Ebola is not anywhere near accurate and just sensationalizing the disease.  That is my issue. 

[Alan Klein]

Alan, you seem to be continually missing my point - do you not think it is in YOUR best interest to have the rest  (or as much) of the world "on your side"? Buying your goods, having common interests reinforced?
Friends? You know, like in 1976 when you guys asked us to fight the Cubans and the Russians in Angola?

Our friends cost us a lot in money and blood. When we were richer, we could afford it.  No longer. Especially now because of the virus and the trillions we're printing.  All the loses to the economy. Congress and Americans are not going to be in the mood to spend on others when we have 25 million unemployed.  We have to get our own house in economic order before we can think about the rest of the world.  You're going to have to reach into your own pocket if you need to get things done. Sorry.  That's just the way it is.  That doesn't mean we still can't be friends and work together when we can.  It's just that resources are limited.  I'm sure you understand.

[faberryman]

Elliot was comparing C-19, with an infection fatality rate of 1% with the vast majority being elderly, to Ebola, which has an infection fatality rate of 50% regardless of age or health.  That is 1% vs 50%, with some pretty important caveats for the former on who will die from it. 

Saying C-19 is similar to Ebola is not anywhere near accurate and just sensationalizing the disease.  That is my issue.

I was referring to the article and accompanying photo about Brazil linked to in Elliot's post. It didn't have anything to do with Ebola.

[faberryman]

We have to get our own house in economic order before we can think about the rest of the world.

Because we know our enemies are just going to sit around doing nothing until we are ready to engage again?

[Alan Klein]

Because we know our enemies are just going to sit around doing nothing until we are ready to engage again.

I never said we're going to stop have foreign affairs. Especially as a counterpoint to China expansionism.  I just doubt that Americans are going to be in any mood for new adventures.  We got enough to deal with at home.  Are you willing to give up your health insurance to pay for another couple of divisions of troops?

[JoeKitchen]

I was referring to the article and accompanying photo about Brazil linked to in Elliot's post. It didn't have anything to do with Ebola.

In his post he wrote “Similar hospitalized fatality rate to Ebola.”. That is comparing it to Ebola, which is incorrect.

I meant to respond to his post, not yours.  Sorry.

[John Camp]

Obama let China get away with murder.  He stopped American Navy cruises through the South China Sea

Had you noticed the name of the sea?

[faberryman]

Are you willing to give up your health insurance to pay for another couple of divisions of troops?

I pay for my own insurance. Trump has been increasing the military budget each year by more than a couple of divisions of troops. We have saved in one area: Trump didn't get his military parade. Overall though, Trump doesn't seem to be listening to you.

[chez]

Our friends cost us a lot in money and blood. When we were richer, we could afford it.  No longer. Especially now because of the virus and the trillions we're printing.  All the loses to the economy. Congress and Americans are not going to be in the mood to spend on others when we have 25 million unemployed.  We have to get our own house in economic order before we can think about the rest of the world.  You're going to have to reach into your own pocket if you need to get things done. Sorry.  That's just the way it is.  That doesn't mean we still can't be friends and work together when we can.  It's just that resources are limited.  I'm sure you understand.

And we can see China taking this opportunity to become the friendly rich nation...

[JoeKitchen]

Had you noticed the name of the sea?

Should India own the entire Indian Ocean?

[Paulo Bizarro]

Life saving mask?

[Alan Klein]

Had you noticed the name of the sea?

John,  Does India own the Indian Ocean?  Come on.  You know better than that. The World Court has ruled that China is in violation of international law.  Those islands don't belong to China but to others including Vietnam, Philippines, and other countries.  But CHina stole them and militarized them.  Why are you an apologist for China?

[JoeKitchen]

Well, interesting read in the NYTs. 

‘Life Has to Go On’: How Sweden Has Faced the Virus Without a Lockdown

The country was an outlier in Europe, trusting its people to voluntarily follow the protocols. Many haven’t, but it does not seem to have hurt them.

Gatherings of more than 50 people are banned. Museums have closed and sporting events have been canceled. At the end of March, the authorities banned visits to nursing homes.
That’s roughly it. There are almost no fines, and police officers can only ask people to oblige. Pedestrians wearing masks are generally stared at as if they have just landed from Mars.

[faberryman]

John,  Does India own the Indian Ocean?  Come on.  You know better than that. The World Court has ruled that China is in violation of international law.  Those islands don't belong to China but to others including Vietnam, Philippines, and other countries.  But CHina stole them and militarized them.  Why are you an apologist for China?

So what. We stole the United States from the Indians. It happens. Get over it. Isn't that the Trump Doctrine: Why Should I Care, It's Not My Problem. If "Vietnam, Philippines, and other countries" want their islands back, let them fight for them. We are not the world's policeman. We can't afford to be. Right? And what are we doing anyway? Sailing our ships by the islands and shaking our fist. It's a brilliant strategy. Boy, I bet China is quaking in its boots. They are going to cave any minute now.

[elliot_n]

Well, interesting read in the NYTs. 

‘Life Has to Go On’: How Sweden Has Faced the Virus Without a Lockdown

Nice photos.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...Pedestrians wearing masks are generally stared at as if they have just landed from Mars.[/i]

Hallelujah! The Swedes are returning my faith in humanity.

[JoeKitchen]

Some interesting facts I just learned. 

The death per million in the USA is nearly better then most major EU countries, with the exception of Germany. 

However, our number minus NY state data puts us on par with Germany. 

NY by itself though is at 1180 deaths per million (NYC is at ~1400 deaths per million, 3 times Italy), out pacing Italy and all others whom can be trusted with their data (not China). 

It seems to me the real failure is with Cuomo and De Blasio.  Cuomo and De Blasio royally screwed up.  Cuomo had a policy up until very recently that is a member of a retirement homes get C-19, the person needed to accepted back into their nursing home. 

Trump issued his 15 days to stop  the spread order on 3-16; Cuomo waited until 3-23 to shut down NY, a full week later. 

If anyone should be held accountable it is Cuomo and De Blasio. 

Last, you can not at the same time be complaining for more testing, which will naturally increase number of cases, and then when testing increases, giving us more positive cases, complain that we have the highest number of cases.  It makes no sense. 

[Robert Roaldi]

Some interesting facts I just learned. 

The death per million in the USA is nearly better then most major EU countries, with the exception of Germany. 

However, our number minus NY state data puts us on par with Germany. 

NY by itself though is at 1180 deaths per million (NYC is at ~1400 deaths per million, 3 times Italy), out pacing Italy and all others whom can be trusted with their data (not China). 

It seems to me the real failure is with Cuomo and De Blasio.  Cuomo and De Blasio royally screwed up.  Cuomo had a policy up until very recently that is a member of a retirement homes get C-19, the person needed to accepted back into their nursing home. 

Trump issued his 15 days to stop  the spread order on 3-16; Cuomo waited until 3-23 to shut down NY, a full week later. 

If anyone should be held accountable it is Cuomo and De Blasio. 

Last, you can not at the same time be complaining for more testing, which will naturally increase number of cases, and then when testing increases, giving us more positive cases, complain that we have the highest number of cases.  It makes no sense.

I thought you didn't think that stay-in-place mattered much.

But, let's be positive, maybe that is good news. However, I don't think it's over yet so we shouldn't be counting chickens yet. After 2 light days, the number of deaths yesterday and today are high again. The USA has surpassed 60,000.

Does anyone have a source for a 7-day average graph for countries, or even individual states of the US? Daily numbers are too granular.

[JoeKitchen]

I thought you didn't think that stay-in-place mattered much.

But, let's be positive, maybe that is good news. However, I don't think it's over yet so we shouldn't be counting chickens yet. After 2 light days, the number of deaths yesterday and today are high again. The USA has surpassed 60,000.

Does anyone have a source for a 7-day average graph for countries, or even individual states of the US? Daily numbers are too granular.

I dont, sort of, but you do.  Just pointing out by the standards of most on this forum, Cuomo is more at fault then Trump.  It is just funny discouraging to hear Cuomo repeat the same exact thing as Trump, like scapegoating all of the media for downplaying it in January and February, and receive completely different treatment. 

I feel that regardless of lock down, in the end, we will all get this. 

I dont think it is over by any stretch.  I am positive we will have a second wave everywhere, but Sweden and maybe NYC since enough have been infected there that it will mitigate it. 

[JoeKitchen]

Recent quote by Trump, excuse me Cuomo, on the homeless in NYC, "That is disgusting to what is happening on those subway cars. …  You have homeless people on trains, it is not even safe for the homeless people on trains."