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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 329645 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1120 on: November 06, 2019, 01:13:18 am »

2. The request to fire the procuror in Ukraine was a joined action from Biden, the world bank and the european union...

Can you support that with any citation? That the World Bank and EU specified the person who needs to be fired?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1121 on: November 06, 2019, 01:32:04 am »

.
... You are totally not a hypocrite now.  ::)

What makes me a hypocrite?

Are you saying that a legal immigrant can not be against illegal immigration, open borders, and fake refugees?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1122 on: November 06, 2019, 01:39:19 am »

... 1. He completely clearly admitted the Quid Pro Quo...

That is logically impossible. One can admit only things one did. You can not admit for somebody else. Unless you are suggesting the QPQ was the ambassador’s idea? In which case he could indeed admit to it. Everything else is his opinion, interpretation, or conjecture of what was happening.

jeremyrh

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1123 on: November 06, 2019, 02:41:12 am »

Jihadi Janes

Says the guy who gets upset when his mom is mentioned.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1124 on: November 06, 2019, 02:42:58 am »

That is logically impossible. One can admit only things one did. You can not admit for somebody else. Unless you are suggesting the QPQ was the ambassador’s idea? In which case he could indeed admit to it. Everything else is his opinion, interpretation, or conjecture of what was happening.

He admitted that his previous report was not accurate when he denied that a deal was being made linking the unlocking of the US military aid to Ukraine against a public annoucement about an investigation of the Biden case.

This means that a deal was being made and this deal is called a Quid Pro Quo.

So he did clearly admit that a Quid Pro quo occurred and that he was part of the discussions related to this quid pro quo.

There is absolutely nothing illogical about this, at least according to the logic shared by most people on earth.

If you don't see this as relevant, this means that Trump will have to admit himself he did a Quid Pro Quo for you to acknowledge that there is material for impreachment? How likely is this going to happen?

Do you apply the same logic to all criminal in the US? They are all innocent unless them admit themselves to their guilt?

But wait... Trump did admit in front of cameras that he had requested help from Biden, even if he denied the Quid Pro Quo. That itself was a violation of the constitution right there.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 02:47:44 am by BernardLanguillier »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1125 on: November 06, 2019, 02:55:50 am »

Can you support that with any citation? That the World Bank and EU specified the person who needs to be fired?

It's all over internet, this is just the first link I found: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-gas-tycoon-and-the-vice-presidents-son-the-story-of-hunter-bidens-foray-in-ukraine/2019/09/28/1aadff70-dfd9-11e9-8fd3-d943b4ed57e0_story.html

But again, this is completely irrelevant to the current Trump impreahcement by-partisan hearings.

Even if Biden did something illegal, which seems highly unlikely considering the context and worldwide consensus on this matter, this is in no way a reason for Trump to by-pass all legal processes and to send his private attorney to pressure a foreign power, and strategic ally of the US, to dig dirt against a political rival against the unlocking of military aid that had been approved and that was key to protect Ukraine against Russia.

Cheers,
Bernard

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1126 on: November 06, 2019, 03:50:07 am »

It's all over internet, this is just the first link I found: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/the-gas-tycoon-and-the-vice-presidents-son-the-story-of-hunter-bidens-foray-in-ukraine/2019/09/28/1aadff70-dfd9-11e9-8fd3-d943b4ed57e0_story.html

But again, this is completely irrelevant to the current Trump impreahcement by-partisan hearings.

Even if Biden did something illegal, which seems highly unlikely considering the context and worldwide consensus on this matter, this is in no way a reason for Trump to by-pass all legal processes and to send his private attorney to pressure a foreign power, and strategic ally of the US, to dig dirt against a political rival against the unlocking of military aid that had been approved and that was key to protect Ukraine against Russia.

Withholding military aid that was approved by Congress also made it a security violation for the USA.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1127 on: November 06, 2019, 04:40:15 am »

Withholding military aid that was approved by Congress also made it a security violation for the USA.

Indeed. But it seems that National security is only a concern for Trump's supporters when Democrats are involved... ;)

Whatever Trump does is ok.

This reminds me of the behavior adopted by sect members. This apparently conscious willingness to give up one's own ability to judge in favor of a blind belief in something or someone.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1128 on: November 06, 2019, 04:49:02 am »

Have you seen this? From 2:00~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9yY2E2qFRw

The way he describes democrats is just amazingly funny. I am becoming a fan!

Now, how stupid does he think his base his for him to believe they buy into this crap? This is populism at its lowest ever.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1129 on: November 06, 2019, 07:14:16 am »

The Democrat Obama administration investigated the Republican Trump election people based on the possibility there was collusion with the Russians.  This was done before and after an election to the opposite party, a major political event. Similarly the Republican Trump administration asked for investigation of Democrat ex-VP Biden and his son on the possibility they violated US law.  This was being done before an election to the opposite party, a major political event.

Administrations can walk and chew gum at the same time.  Just because there is political fallout does not make the investigation any less legal.  That's what Democrats have been claiming about the Trump collusion investigation.  That there appeared to be some nexus of a crime.  So that made the investigation legal regardless of the advantage to Democrats.      Same with the Bidens.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1130 on: November 06, 2019, 07:19:32 am »

Quid pro quo's with other countries are perfectly legal and done all the time to get them to do things.  For example, Trump could hold back any economic support to Mexico until they commit to really investigating and finding the killers of 9 American Mormons.  That's a quid pro quo.  Perfectly legal. 

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1131 on: November 06, 2019, 07:45:52 am »

Quid pro quo's with other countries are perfectly legal and done all the time to get them to do things.  For example, Trump could hold back any economic support to Mexico until they commit to really investigating and finding the killers of 9 American Mormons.  That's a quid pro quo.  Perfectly legal.

You are part of a very small group of people thinking that way. Most people around you understand that what Trump did is a crystal clear violation of the constitution of the US, the same constitution Trump has sworn to protect when he made an oath as a president.

Cheers,
Bernard

JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1132 on: November 06, 2019, 07:54:46 am »

You are part of a very small group of people thinking that way. Most people around you understand that what Trump did is a crystal clear violation of the constitution of the US, the same constitution Trump has sworn to protect when he made an oath as a president.

Cheers,
Bernard

Please point to the specific statute. 

I have yet to see any specific law noted that he violated, especially considering aid was not withheld nor was the investigation initiated. 
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1133 on: November 06, 2019, 07:58:32 am »

The Democrat Obama administration investigated the Republican Trump election people based on the possibility there was collusion with the Russians.  This was done before and after an election to the opposite party, a major political event. Similarly the Republican Trump administration asked for investigation of Democrat ex-VP Biden and his son on the possibility they violated US law.  This was being done before an election to the opposite party, a major political event.

This should be easy to clear and since you are honesty made man I am sure you will oblige to the facts and wouldn't want to stay stuck in some fantasy land, right?

- What Trump is being accused of is very specific and is dated July 2019 when he was president of the US. What he did or didn't do before is not relevant,
- This is in no way related to what Democrats did or didn't do before Trump was elected, you can make your life simpler and forget about that,
- Joe Biden is considered by many as one of the main potential opponent to Trump during the next election campaign for presidency. There is therefore zero doubt that he can be looked at as a major political rival
- What Trump did this summer, is that he clearly traded the release of committed defends funds (around 300 millions US$) against a public announcement by the Ukraine gov that the Biden (a political rival of Trump) would be investigated for corruption, which they were not at that point in time, and never were before, and still aren't
- This deal was proposed during a phone call that would have stayed secret had a Whistle blower not raised a flag, as the law of the US mandated him to
- This call followed many other transactions, managed outside the regular legal framework with the complicity of Trump's private counsel, during which pressure on Ukraine had already been applied in various ways to get them to investigate Biden
- This is a clear violation of the constitution and constitutes a text book example of what impeachment was designed for

Administrations can walk and chew gum at the same time.  Just because there is political fallout does not make the investigation any less legal.  That's what Democrats have been claiming about the Trump collusion investigation.  That there appeared to be some nexus of a crime.  So that made the investigation legal regardless of the advantage to Democrats.      Same with the Bidens.

I am not following you here, this isn't very clear. Sorry.

But the bottom line is that what trump did stands on its own and is in now way related to political actions from the Democrats. All they did was to apply the law and the impeachment process defined by Republicans with clear involvement from republicans all along.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 08:05:23 am by BernardLanguillier »
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1134 on: November 06, 2019, 08:00:35 am »

Please point to the specific statute. 

I have yet to see any specific law noted that he violated, especially considering aid was not withheld nor was the investigation initiated.

Joe,

Aid was being withheld at the time, this is the issue. But I am sure you understand that very well. A crime doesn't have to succeed to be a crime.

Trying to kill someone is a crime even if you don't succeed.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1135 on: November 06, 2019, 08:20:34 am »

The fact is VP Joe Biden apparently used his position to get his son a job for $600,000 in a Ukrainian oil company that has been charged with corrupt practices even though he never worked in the oil field.  Biden used his VP position to also get his son a job in a Chinese company.  These things should be investigated.  What illegal quid pro quos were agreed too to get his son the jobs?  What emolument laws have been violated? 

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1136 on: November 06, 2019, 08:23:20 am »

The fact is VP Joe Biden apparently used his position to get his son a job for $600,000 in a Ukrainian oil company that has been charged with corrupt practices even though he never worked in the oil field.  Biden used his VP position to also get his son a job in a Chinese company.  These things should be investigated.  What illegal quid pro quos were agreed too to get his son the jobs?  What emolument laws have been violated?

This is totally unrelated to the deeds of Trump.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1137 on: November 06, 2019, 08:24:23 am »

This is totally unrelated to the deeds of Trump.

Cheers,
Bernard

????

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1138 on: November 06, 2019, 08:28:12 am »

Apparently it's only proper for Democrats to investigate Republicans for violating US laws.  Republicans are not allowed to investigate Democrats for breaking similar US laws.  The Republicans don't know how to fight dirty like the Democrats.  What a bunch of sad sacks.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1139 on: November 06, 2019, 08:31:43 am »

The fact is VP Joe Biden apparently used his position to get his son a job for $600,000 in a Ukrainian oil company that has been charged with corrupt practices even though he never worked in the oil field.  Biden used his VP position to also get his son a job in a Chinese company.  These things should be investigated.  What illegal quid pro quos were agreed too to get his son the jobs?  What emolument laws have been violated?
There is no truth to what you have written other than maybe FOX news or some Internet source.  Hunter Biden was also appointed to the Amtrak Board of Directors by President GW Bush so maybe he is also complicit here.  The fact is that relatives of politicians always are picked for a variety of jobs that they might not otherwise be qualified for.  I used to own Wells Fargo stock and Elaine Chao, Mrs. Mitch MicConnell, was on the Board for a number of years.  She had absolutely no background in the banking industry, something one might think would be necessary for an outside director.  Needless to say I always voted against her each proxy season.  Maybe we should be investigating this as well.

If you cannot document statements, don't bother posting them.
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