Impeaching Donald Trump

[ah693973]

Alan,

In my world an argument is only won with the truth. If you lie and stretch and obscure it is just more disinformation. It is a hollow, imaginary victory. Why not argue honorably and enjoy the victories when they come? You are like the marathon runner that takes a shortcut and then pretends victory. It can't feel good.

 

That's the same argument used against Trump for two years.  That he won the election because he conspired (colluded) with the Russians, all proven untrue.  So now you're trying to sell another conspiracy theory.  You know the Martians will be landing any day now.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... In my world an argument is only won with the truth...

That all sounds cool and lofty, but what exactly is the truth is an increasingly complex issue. Rashomon comes to mind.

[faberryman]

That all sounds cool and lofty, but what exactly is the truth is an increasingly complex issue. Rashomon comes to mind.

The red herrings and non sequiturs aren't helping.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

The red herrings and non sequiturs aren't helping.

Nor parroting buzz words.

Feel free to argue what makes what I said red herrings or non sequiturs.

[ah693973]

Well Slobodan, that is a classic propaganda technique. Flood someone with so much disinformation that it is too confusing , complicated, and tiring to delve the truth. The idea is to make it as if there is no truth.

Alan uses this flood of disinformation to similar effect. And thus he tries to get away with untruths. For instance the Mueller report clearly says it does not exhonerate Trump, but Alan happily parrots the Fox news line. I hope it is unwittingly.

That all sounds cool and lofty, but what exactly is the truth is an increasingly complex issue. Rashomon comes to mind.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... For instance the Mueller report clearly says it does not exhonerate Trump...

Which I tried to explain earlier is a pretty meaningless statement on the Mueller's part, as the job of prosecutor is not to exonerate or prove innocence, but to prove guilt. Not being able to prove guilt is an equivalent of exoneration, no matter what Mueller said. Again, it is all pure logic, nothing to do with Fox or Alan.

[Alan Klein]

Well Slobodan, that is a classic propaganda technique. Flood someone with so much disinformation that it is too confusing , complicated, and tiring to delve the truth. The idea is to make it as if there is no truth.

Alan uses this flood of disinformation to similar effect. And thus he tries to get away with untruths. For instance the Mueller report clearly says it does not exhonerate Trump, but Alan happily parrots the Fox news line. I hope it is unwittingly.

You are being disingenuous or you got your facts mixed up.  You pulled a switcheroo on me.  I was referring to the collusion with the Russians, that there was nt guilt found.  Mueller's comments about not exonerating Trump had to do with obstruction of justice, not collusion. 

I know you've just started here.  And I've answered this point to others.  Why do liberals and anti-Trumpers always feel that conservatives and TRump supporters always get their news and talking points from Fox?  As if we don't know how to think for ourselves?   And where do you get your talking points from?  MSNBC and CNN?

How about if I make you a deal? I won;t accuse you of mimicking MSNBC and CNN if you won;t accuse me of mimicking Fox?  I think you're bright enough to support your views about what you believe without media prejudice.  Please give me and others here the same respect. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Please give me and others here the same respect.

Respect has to be earned ...

[ah693973]

You are being disingenuous or you got your facts mixed up.  You pulled a switcheroo on me.  I was referring to the collusion with the Russians, that there was nt guilt found.  Mueller's comments about not exonerating Trump had to do with obstruction of justice, not collusion. 

There was no switcheroo. Your facts are wrong. Muller's comments were about the conspiracy. He was confident in the criminality of the obstruction, he didn't need a hedge for that.

I know you've just started here.  And I've answered this point to others.  Why do liberals and anti-Trumpers always feel that conservatives and TRump supporters always get their news and talking points from Fox?  As if we don't know how to think for ourselves?   And where do you get your talking points from?  MSNBC and CNN?

Trumpers get their news from Fox or other similar propaganda outlets almost inevitably. It is a cult, a diversion from reality, they make you angry, afraid, the victim and only the great Trump can save you. None of the news I take in accuses other outlets of being "fake news", they don't have to.

How many hours a day of Fox do you watch? Or do you listen to Rush? I don't get TV and have only watched/listened about 10-20 hours of anything other than the PBS over the last year. I get my talking points from my values, honor, honesty and compassion. No TV station is going to dictate those to me.

How about if I make you a deal? I won;t accuse you of mimicking MSNBC and CNN if you won;t accuse me of mimicking Fox?  I think you're bright enough to support your views about what you believe without media prejudice.  Please give me and others here the same respect.

You can accuse me of watching those channels, but as I explained above, you would be wrong. I think very few people come to the "values" that Trump represents without a corrupting influence like Fox/Rush/Breitbart. Maybe you are the exception, but I doubt it.

Now that I think about it, I'm sure I have spent just as much time with Fox/Rush as MSNBC/CNN over the last year.

[Peter McLennan]

There are no lies and no disinformation outside fake news media. You just have to learn the jargon.

Having watched and listened to Trump for the last three years, I would label that comment as preposterous.

Having watched and listened to Trump for the last three years, I would label that comment as preposterous.

With the indulgence of the court, I'll amend my post to say "Beginning with WMD, and having watched and listened to Republicans for the last few years", I would label that comment as indefensible."

[LesPalenik]

Anthony Scaramucci predicts that the other Republicans will force Trump to leave office by March 2020.

Anthony Scaramucci predicts Republican lawmakers will pressure President Trump to leave office by March 2020.
“When you talk to elected Republicans privately they can’t stand the president. They know the president is a lawless person and basically a criminal."

Scaramucci, a political insider who was part of Trump’s finance committee in 2016 and joined the administration for a brief 11-day run as communications director in 2017, says the president’s approval rating keeps falling as the impeachment inquiry uncovers more scandals within the White House. Scaramucci said Republicans can’t ignore the new polls from Fox News and NBC/Wall Street Journal which show a growing number of Americans, 49%, want Trump removed from office. “I predict that’s now going to have to go to 60 and when it’s 60, Republicans are going to have to cut and run.”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/president-trump-will-be-out-of-office-by-march-2020-says-anthony-scaramucci-210434593.html

[JoeKitchen]

Wow!  True colors finally shown. 

[JoeKitchen]

Anthony Scaramucci predicts that the other Republicans will force Trump to leave office by March 2020.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/president-trump-will-be-out-of-office-by-march-2020-says-anthony-scaramucci-210434593.html

Really, you trust the Mooch?    It amazes me that during his short tenure, he was ridiculed by the media but is now a source of all things Trump by the same media. 

News flash, another so called Trump insider predicted he would resign before an impeachment inquiry started, and here we are. 

The unfortunate matter of the situation is the Dems have no one who can both win the primary and beat Trump.  Biden is the only one polling with a good chance at winning, but he is being destroyed in the primary.  And Warren is totally crazy, cant possibly win in the general, but is rising in the primary.  The Dems have a big mess on there hands. 

[LesPalenik]

Scaramucci may be aware of some rumblings in the republican circles which don't make it into the official news.

The right democratic candidate is another matter. But if Trump leaves the office in the next six months, there may be also some republican replacement.   

[Alan Klein]

There was no switcheroo. Your facts are wrong. Muller's comments were about the conspiracy. He was confident in the criminality of the obstruction, he didn't need a hedge for that.

Trumpers get their news from Fox or other similar propaganda outlets almost inevitably. It is a cult, a diversion from reality, they make you angry, afraid, the victim and only the great Trump can save you. None of the news I take in accuses other outlets of being "fake news", they don't have to.

How many hours a day of Fox do you watch? Or do you listen to Rush? I don't get TV and have only watched/listened about 10-20 hours of anything other than the PBS over the last year. I get my talking points from my values, honor, honesty and compassion. No TV station is going to dictate those to me.

You can accuse me of watching those channels, but as I explained above, you would be wrong. I think very few people come to the "values" that Trump represents without a corrupting influence like Fox/Rush/Breitbart. Maybe you are the exception, but I doubt it.

Now that I think about it, I'm sure I have spent just as much time with Fox/Rush as MSNBC/CNN over the last year.

OK. You pre-judged me without knowing who I really am.  That's unfortunate.  Now I know who you are. 

[Alan Klein]

Scaramucci may be aware of some rumblings in the republican circles which don't make it into the official news.

The right democratic candidate is another matter. But if Trump leaves the office in the next six months, there may be also some republican replacement.   

Trump's not leaving and the Senate Republicans have to support him.  If they don;t they'll lose both the presidency and the Senate.  No Trump voter will vote for a Republican if they abandon him. 

[Alan Klein]

They'll stay home election eve.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Trumpers get their news from Fox or other similar propaganda outlets almost inevitably. It is a cult, a diversion from reality, they make you angry, afraid, the victim and only the great Trump can save you...

After this, there is really no point in engaging in a debate with you.

[LesPalenik]

They'll stay home election eve.

That wouldn't be very smart.

[John Camp]

Scaramucci may be aware of some rumblings in the republican circles which don't make it into the official news.
The right democratic candidate is another matter. But if Trump leaves the office in the next six months, there may be also some republican replacement.   

I doubt Scaramucci could find his ass with both hands and a flashlight, much less accurately assess "rumblings."

Here is something that has occurred to me. What if the impeachment proceedings, whatever your attitude toward them, make it appear that Trump will be a sure loser in 2020, even with a weak Democratic candidate. I think that's possible, because, let's face it, Trump is both a psycho and a criminal and I think that's about to be proven. (I say that somewhat tongue in cheek, to provoke, but I also happen to think that it's true -- but I'm not looking at a response to that.) If it looks like Trump is going down, and maybe going down big, why wouldn't the Senate Republicans make a simple calculation -- they find a relatively upstanding candidate (not Pence, who has all the charisma of a tennis shoe) and then go ahead and convict Trump, to clear the way for a conservative candidate who'd almost certainly beat the weak-ass Democrats and preserve the White House and Senate as Republican (and conservative) preserves? Or, better yet, send a delegation to Trump to tell him that he's going down, so he can magnanimously announce that it's time to stop the partisan warfare, and to prove his sincerity, he either resigns or announces that he won't be a candidate in 2020. If he did that, the Senate would acquit, for sure, but the Republicans would get a sane candidate, and Trump could go back to his golf courses and probably being a Fox TV star, which I''m pretty sure he'd like more than he likes being President. Could happen, you think?