Impeaching Donald Trump

[Alan Klein]

the trial takes place in the Senate, not the House.  Grand Juries can only indict, they do not sit for trials (I've been on one).

Non Sequitur.

[Alan Klein]

The transcripts for the depositions are now being released   As they come out you all can download them here:  https://intelligence.house.gov/  Talk about transparency!!!!

Thnaks for agreeing with me that impeachment in the House of Representatives is not the same as a Grand Jury.  Testimony in Grand Juries has to be kept secret. 

[Alan Klein]

Alan G,

That isn't how the game is played. Now it will be; "They are trying this case in the court of public opinion. Those dirty Dems should keep all this damning information private."

Trump always has to be the victim.

Apparently the Democrats are so concerned they'll lose the election in 2020, they have to resort to impeachment to get rid of Trump.  You'd think they'd trust the electorate to make the decision if he's so bad.  That's what makes the thing seem so political.  They don;t trust the voters. They want a couple of hundred politicians from the opposite party to "coup" him out of office. I guess their experience in 2016 makes them gun shy.  So they've resorted to impeachment now going on three years to beat him.  What a bunch of desperate cowards. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

Apparently the Democrats are so concerned they'll lose the election in 2020, they have to resort to impeachment to get rid of Trump.  You'd think they'd trust the electorate to make the decision if he's so bad.  That's what makes the thing seem so political.  They don;t trust the voters. They want a couple of hundred politicians from the opposite party to "coup" him out of office. I guess their experience in 2016 makes them gun shy.  So they've resorted to impeachment now going on three years to beat him.  What a bunch of desperate cowards.

You don't even know if he will be impeached.  It may be at the end of the day that the House censures the President for obstruction of justice and malfeasance of office as pertains to the Ukraine withholding of  aid.  They will continue the investigations as the various subpoenas are upheld by the courts and various officials are forced to testify or go to jail.  There will be an ample enough record built up by this process for even Elizabeth Warren to run a credible campaign about all the rot in the White House.  You underestimate Speaker Pelosi who is very astute about all this.  The Republican Senators will be campaigned against big time and it's not inconceivable that the Republicans could lose four or more Senate seats next year.  Impeachment is not the end game here.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Not yet. All she has to do is quit watching Fox News.

Good one!

[ah693973]

Alan,

Again, this gets to the heart of our democracy. We can't trust that free and fair elections are being held.

Up until a couple of months ago there was no formal impeachment inquiry. The idea was to do exactly as you propose, let the people decide. This scandal makes it clear that free and fair elections are at risk.

Apparently the Democrats are so concerned they'll lose the election in 2020, they have to resort to impeachment to get rid of Trump.  You'd think they'd trust the electorate to make the decision if he's so bad.  That's what makes the thing seem so political.  They don;t trust the voters. They want a couple of hundred politicians from the opposite party to "coup" him out of office. I guess their experience in 2016 makes them gun shy.  So they've resorted to impeachment now going on three years to beat him.  What a bunch of desperate cowards.

[Alan Klein]

You don't even know if he will be impeached.  It may be at the end of the day that the House censures the President for obstruction of justice and malfeasance of office as pertains to the Ukraine withholding of  aid.  They will continue the investigations as the various subpoenas are upheld by the courts and various officials are forced to testify or go to jail.  There will be an ample enough record built up by this process for even Elizabeth Warren to run a credible campaign about all the rot in the White House.  You underestimate Speaker Pelosi who is very astute about all this.  The Republican Senators will be campaigned against big time and it's not inconceivable that the Republicans could lose four or more Senate seats next year.  Impeachment is not the end game here.

So you acknowledge its all a Democrat plan to game the system for the elections.  Keep smearing Trump and see if they can win more seats and the presidency as they gained in  the 2018 election.  I agree that's what they're up too.  They're trying to make the vote about TRump as they did in 2018.  After all, the economy and the country is doing pretty good.  What else could they run on?  Biden helping his kid?  Warren false swearing her race? Sanders turning the country Marxist? Buttigieg checking with his husband what he should do? 

The Democrats know the Senate will not convict.  This is all about piling on as they have for the last three years.  The question is whether the voters will be smart enough to figure this all out since the anti_Trump media will keep protecting the Democrats. 

[ah693973]

Alan,

You can sling shit with the best of them. Whataboutism works and is a favorite Russian propaganda technique. But the real question, for America, is did Trump (and others) conspire to interfere in the election.

That is what this is about.

So you acknowledge its all a Democrat plan to game the system for the elections.  Keep smearing Trump and see if they can win more seats and the presidency as they gained in  the 2018 election.  I agree that's what they're up too.  They're trying to make the vote about TRump as they did in 2018.  After all, the economy and the country is doing pretty good.  What else could they run on?  Biden helping his kid?  Warren false swearing her race? Sanders turning the country Marxist? Buttigieg checking with his husband what he should do? 

The Democrats know the Senate will not convict.  This is all about piling on as they have for the last three years.  The question is whether the voters will be smart enough to figure this all out since the anti_Trump media will keep protecting the Democrats.

[Alan Klein]

Alan,

You can sling shit with the best of them. Whataboutism works and is a favorite Russian propaganda technique. But the real question, for America, is did Trump (and others) conspire to interfere in the election.

That is what this is about.

Actually I think there is some Russian blood in me.  Maybe that's my problem? 

We must be getting to you already after one day.  Now you're using curse words. And smearing me calling me a Russian apparently because you have no honest and logical response to my point.  That Democrats are gaming the system to smear Trump for the election. 

Getting back to your question, if the Senate finds Trump not guilty, than you'd have to acknowledge he did not conspire to interfere in the election. 

[Alan Klein]

Be careful before you respond. I'm setting you up. 

[ah693973]

No. I would have to acknowledge that the Senate did not find him guilty. There is always a chance he did it and went free, or he didn't and was found guilty. To think otherwise is silly.

 

Be careful before you respond. I'm setting you up.

[ah693973]

Alan,

This is just silly. You make this stuff up, putting words in my mouth. Come on, it is no fun to argue if you can't keep it coherent. This stuff is important, it deserves rigor.

Actually I think there is some Russian blood in me.  Maybe that's my problem? 

We must be getting to you already after one day.  Now you're using curse words. And smearing me calling me a Russian apparently because you have no honest and logical response to my point.  That Democrats are gaming the system to smear Trump for the election. 

Getting back to your question, if the Senate finds Trump not guilty, than you'd have to acknowledge he did not conspire to interfere in the election.

[Peter McLennan]

Democracy rests not on some supreme power feeding only truth to the masses, but on the masses' ability to discern what is what. If they can't, they deserve what they got.

Which is precisely why all the shocking lies and disinformation we're seeing in the last few years is so dangerous to democracy.  It's simply intentional muddying of the waters so that discerning "what is what" is much more difficult.  In other words, "Truth Decay" is not accidental, it's intentional.

And that's why it's standard practice for despots, tyrants and dictators.  It works.

[Alan Klein]

No. I would have to acknowledge that the Senate did not find him guilty. There is always a chance he did it and went free, or he didn't and was found guilty. To think otherwise is silly.

 

The same is true of the Democrat House.  They can find him guilty for political reasons. And the Republican Senate can find him not guilty also for political reasons.  After all, if impeachment is a political act, then everyone can act politically.  Frankly, I don't think that's what the public wants.

[Alan Klein]

Which is precisely why all the shocking lies and disinformation we're seeing in the last few years is so dangerous to democracy.  It's simply intentional muddying of the waters so that discerning "what is what" is much more difficult.  In other words, "Truth Decay" is not accidental, it's intentional.

And that's why it's standard practice for despots, tyrants and dictators.  It works.

Which is Trump?  A despot, a tyrant or a dictator?  After all, you are trying to smear him.

[ah693973]

He would like to be all of those things.

Ever spend much time around a narcissist? I have.

Which is Trump?  A despot, a tyrant or a dictator?  After all, you are trying to smear him.

[ah693973]

Hallelujah, Peter. That is the truth, people don't realize that democracy worldwide is under an existential threat from disinformation/propaganda.

Which is precisely why all the shocking lies and disinformation we're seeing in the last few years is so dangerous to democracy.  It's simply intentional muddying of the waters so that discerning "what is what" is much more difficult.  In other words, "Truth Decay" is not accidental, it's intentional.

And that's why it's standard practice for despots, tyrants and dictators.  It works.

[Alan Klein]

Hallelujah, Peter. That is the truth, people don't realize that democracy worldwide is under an existential threat from disinformation/propaganda.

That's true.  Liberal media gives us a constant diet of fake news. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Which is precisely why all the shocking lies and disinformation we're seeing in the last few years ...

There are no lies and no disinformation outside fake news media. You just have to learn the jargon.

[Alan Klein]

Alan,

Again, this gets to the heart of our democracy. We can't trust that free and fair elections are being held.

Up until a couple of months ago there was no formal impeachment inquiry. The idea was to do exactly as you propose, let the people decide. This scandal makes it clear that free and fair elections are at risk.

That's the same argument used against Trump for two years.  That he won the election because he conspired (colluded) with the Russians, all proven untrue.  So now you're trying to sell another conspiracy theory.  You know the Martians will be landing any day now.