Impeaching Donald Trump

[BernardLanguillier]

I don't see how. Regardless of whether Biden is Al Capone or Mother Theresa, it is irrelevant to the current discussion. What's under discussion are the methods that Trump tried to use to bury a political opponent.

If Biden is Al Capone, that's a separate issue. Feel free to go after him.

You're just trying to obscure things.

Exactly.

I feel more and more sorry for Slobodan and Allan to have to self inflict this continuous stream of lies and disinformation just to support the Trump brand against all facts and logic.

Desperation never looks good but this is one sad showing.

Cheers,
Bernard

[JoeKitchen]

Because everyone knows who Trump is.  A loud-mouth, NYC real-estate tycoon who sold  himself, yes lied about, and worked his butt off to make good.  A  bull in a China shop.  But, he didn't change his race to get ahead. Rather he employed minorities. He wasn't a politician until becoming president.  She's the one who claims she only does good.  She's the one looking for minority votes.  Yet, she used minority status that she didn't have to advance her career.  Oh sure, Obama will come out and support her like he did the Canadian PM' faux pas regarding black face.  But how many minorities will see through the facade and stay home rather than vote for her?    How many people will see her too far to the left and get nervous about where she wants to take the country.  No, Biden was a better match against TRump.  A Mr. Nice Guy, centrist liberal, who union and other workers can identify with.  These men and women, these deplorables,  can't ID with Pocahontas flailing her arms around lecturing everyone like a college professor from Harvard.  Oh wait, she is a college professor from Harvard.

A recent New York Times poll, in conjunction with I believe Marist, found that if the vote was right now with Trump and Warren on the ballot, Trump wins in every single swing state by an amount larger than the margin of error. 

That's right, a liberal news source found that regardless of this current impeachment circus, Warren looses big time to Trump.  The NYTs even stated that with Warren on the ticket, Trumps electoral college advantage would be higher this time than it was in 2016. 

For what it is worth, the poll also shows Bernie loosing to Trump in every swing state but one, and Biden beats Trump in every swing state, but not by an amount higher then the margin of error to any of them. 

So, if Warren wins, Trump is re-elected.  If Bernie wins, Trump is re-elected.  If Biden wins, perhaps Trump looses, however given Biden's current issue with raising money, I still doubt he can pull it off. 

[Alan Goldhammer]

So why did VP Biden's son get a $600,000 no show job in a Ukrainian oil company never having worked a day in his life in the oil industry?

You're right.   It is insane.

Why did Elaine Chao (Mrs. Mitch McConnell) get a job on the Wells Fargo Bank board, receiving a health yearly stipend and stock despite having no expertise in the banking industry.  She is still getting paid for this:  https://morningconsult.com/opinions/as-ethics-probes-build-will-elaine-chao-answer-for-wells-fargo-fraud-scandal/  Amazingly she was on the Board when the bank was doing a lot of nasty stuff to consumers and the Board totally was lost at sea.  Her compensation for all this 'fine' work makes Hunter Biden look like a piker.  Do you think her position had something to do with her husband???

I was a Wells Fargo shareholder until last year and voted against Ms. Chao in every proxy season.  She was inept.

[Alan Klein]

Ay, chihuahua.  I feel like we've been over this before.

Now you know how Trump supporters feel when the president gets accused of crimes based on rumor and political hijinks.

[Alan Klein]

Why did Elaine Chao (Mrs. Mitch McConnell) get a job on the Wells Fargo Bank board, receiving a health yearly stipend and stock despite having no expertise in the banking industry.  She is still getting paid for this:  https://morningconsult.com/opinions/as-ethics-probes-build-will-elaine-chao-answer-for-wells-fargo-fraud-scandal/  Amazingly she was on the Board when the bank was doing a lot of nasty stuff to consumers and the Board totally was lost at sea.  Her compensation for all this 'fine' work makes Hunter Biden look like a piker.  Do you think her position had something to do with her husband???

I was a Wells Fargo shareholder until last year and voted against Ms. Chao in every proxy season.  She was inept.

I didn't know Senator McConnell was running for president. 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I feel more and more sorry for Slobodan and Allan to have to self inflict this continuous stream of lies and disinformation...

1. No need to feel sorry for me, Bernard, it is condescending.

2. Are you accusing me of lying?

[Robert Roaldi]

Well, it appeared that Trump colluded with the Russians.  Yet, it took a two year investigation to prove he didn't.  Why should we believe that Biden didn't do something corrupt as well?  After all, who gets paid $50K a month for nothing?  It seems that Democrats know how to dish it out but don't know how to take it.

This is an odd question, "Why should we believe that Biden didn't do something corrupt as well?"  Why should you believe he did.

In answer to your other question, unfortunately lots of people get paid money for doing nothing useful. He wouldn't be the first nor the most egregious.

If Trump thought that Biden had done something illegal/unethical/suspect, all he had to do was make use of the many 3- and 4-letter security-related bodies that he has at his disposal to find some evidence and then proceed from there. You have on several occasions tried to portray Trump as a poor helpless victim, but he is the President, what is stopping him from issuing those orders to those agencies? You can't be a tycoon, independent, not afraid of critics, willing to say it like it is, AND at the same time be a helpless victim of the media and Democrats. Your characterization of him is not credible.

[Alan Klein]

This is an odd question, "Why should we believe that Biden didn't do something corrupt as well?"  Why should you believe he did.

In answer to your other question, unfortunately lots of people get paid money for doing nothing useful. He wouldn't be the first nor the most egregious.

If Trump thought that Biden had done something illegal/unethical/suspect, all he had to do was make use of the many 3- and 4-letter security-related bodies that he has at his disposal to find some evidence and then proceed from there. You have on several occasions tried to portray Trump as a poor helpless victim, but he is the President, what is stopping him from issuing those orders to those agencies? You can't be a tycoon, independent, not afraid of critics, willing to say it like it is, AND at the same time be a helpless victim of the media and Democrats. Your characterization of him is not credible.

Because VP Biden was physically present in the room holding his son Hunter's hand winking at the corrupt officials who ran the corrupt corporation when they met them.  Then Hunter Biden gets a $50K a month job from these same people.  Very coincidental, wouldn't you think.  Then the prosecutor is fired who was investigating the corporation that his son worked for.  And the VP was warned by other US officials that having his son working for them is just too much.  In fact, a week or so ago, Hunter finally quit his overseas jobs to protect his father.  It's all just too convenient. 


It's interesting that for three years you went after Trump and his kids for taking advantage of his position as president.  Emoluments, hotels room rentals, and all that.  But when the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly you have blinders on.  "Nothing here; just keep moving."

[Alan Klein]

This is an odd question, "Why should we believe that Biden didn't do something corrupt as well?"  Why should you believe he did.

In answer to your other question, unfortunately lots of people get paid money for doing nothing useful. He wouldn't be the first nor the most egregious.

If Trump thought that Biden had done something illegal/unethical/suspect, all he had to do was make use of the many 3- and 4-letter security-related bodies that he has at his disposal to find some evidence and then proceed from there. You have on several occasions tried to portray Trump as a poor helpless victim, but he is the President, what is stopping him from issuing those orders to those agencies? You can't be a tycoon, independent, not afraid of critics, willing to say it like it is, AND at the same time be a helpless victim of the media and Democrats. Your characterization of him is not credible.

America can't investigate in Ukraine.  That's up to their government.  That's why Trump asked them to follow up.  It's no different than what's happened in Mexico with the killing of nine Americans.  What are we supposed to do?  Send in the US marines? 

[James Clark]

Because VP Biden was physically present in the room holding his son Hunter's hand winking at the corrupt officials who ran the corrupt corporation when they met them.

He was? 

Then Hunter Biden gets a $50K a month job from these same people.  Very coincidental, wouldn't you think. 

Not at all - Hunter Biden was placed on the board of a company because of who his father is.  That's not illegal, or even unusual.

Then the prosecutor is fired who was investigating the corporation that his son worked for.

Are you deliberately missing the fact that the prosecutor was removed for NOT investigating corruption?   And that Joe Biden was just one of many who were pressuring the Ukrainian government to make a change?   Please - go back and look at the articles I posted from when Shokin was still in office.  They are articles written by International journalists, with nary a mention of the United States, Joe Biden, or even Burisma for the most part. The only people pushing this narrative are people trying to justify Trump's unethical actions. 

And the VP was warned by other US officials that having his son working for them is just too much.  In fact, a week or so ago, Hunter finally quit his overseas jobs to protect his father.  It's all just too convenient. 

Yep - it's a bad look.   These things usually are.  You don't seem to care when Trump does it, and he does it directly, obviously, and proudly.  Biden, by all impartial observation, doesn't do it at all, yet you insist that the corruption is obvious.   

[James Clark]

America can't investigate in Ukraine.  That's up to their government.  That's why Trump asked them to follow up.  It's no different than what's happened in Mexico with the killing of nine Americans.  What are we supposed to do?  Send in the US marines?

Not true.  Trump was specifically and explicitly pressuring them to make a public statement that Hunter Biden was under investigation, despite the fact that the alleged underlying issues had already been investigated, and dismissed.  That serves no purpose except to harm a political opponent. 

[Alan Klein]

He was? 

Not at all - Hunter Biden was placed on the board of a company because of who his father is.  That's not illegal, or even unusual.

Are you deliberately missing the fact that the prosecutor was removed for NOT investigating corruption?   And that Joe Biden was just one of many who were pressuring the Ukrainian government to make a change?   Please - go back and look at the articles I posted from when Shokin was still in office.  They are articles written by International journalists, with nary a mention of the United States, Joe Biden, or even Burisma for the most part. The only people pushing this narrative are people trying to justify Trump's unethical actions. 

Yep - it's a bad look.   These things usually are.  You don't seem to care when Trump does it, and he does it directly, obviously, and proudly.  Biden, by all impartial observation, doesn't do it at all, yet you insist that the corruption is obvious.   

You don't have to convince me.  I'm a Republican and can't vote in the Democrat primaries.  You have to convince other Democrats who do vote in the primaries that Biden is not just another creature from the Washington swamps who used his position as VP to enrich his son. 

[JoeKitchen]

Not true.  Trump was specifically and explicitly pressuring them to make a public statement that Hunter Biden was under investigation, despite the fact that the alleged underlying issues had already been investigated, and dismissed.  That serves no purpose except to harm a political opponent.

Could you please direct me to where this is stated. 

I only recall Trump asking for an investigation of overall corruption to be started.  No where did I see a request for a public statement.

[James Clark]

Could you please direct me to where this is stated. 

I only recall Trump asking for an investigation of overall corruption to be started.  No where did I see a request for a public statement.

Sondland's testimony, corroborated by Volker.  (Sorry for the formatting - that's direct from the Sondland transcript.)

Specifically,

""1r. Giuliani emphasized that the
President wanted a public statement from Pres'ident Zelensky

5

committing Ukraine

J

to look into anti-corruption issues.
Mr. Gi u1i ani speci f i cally ment j oned the 201.6 elect'ion,

6
7
8

9

server, and Buri sma as two anti corruption
investigatory topics of importance for the President. Let me
be clear..."

William Taylior said the same...

"In fact, Ambassador Sondland said, 'everything' was dependent on such an announcement, including security assistance," Taylor wrote.

[Chris Kern]

If Trump thought that Biden had done something illegal/unethical/suspect, all he had to do was make use of the many 3- and 4-letter security-related bodies that he has at his disposal to find some evidence and then proceed from there.

Using federal investigative agencies to target political opponents would arguably constitute an impeachable offense, based on a Nixon precedent:

He misused the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Secret Service, and other executive personnel, in violation or disregard of the constitutional rights of citizens, by directing or authorizing such agencies or personnel to conduct or continue electronic surveillance or other investigations for purposes unrelated to national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of his office; he did direct, authorize, or permit the use of information obtained thereby for purposes unrelated to national security, the enforcement of laws, or any other lawful function of his office; and he did direct the concealment of certain records made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation of electronic surveillance.

—Article II (excerpt), adopted 28-10 by the Committee on Judiciary of the House of Representatives, July 27, 1974

It's virtually certain that White House counsel Pat Cipollone and Attorney General William Barr are familiar with this precedent, and would have pushed back against any attempt by President Trump to use federal agencies in this manner.  Perhaps that is why Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, took the lead in the attempt to get the Ukrainian government to investigate the Bidens.

[JoeKitchen]

Sondland's testimony, corroborated by Volker.  (Sorry for the formatting - that's direct from the Sondland transcript.)

Specifically,

""1r. Giuliani emphasized that the
President wanted a public statement from Pres'ident Zelensky

5

committing Ukraine

J

to look into anti-corruption issues.
Mr. Gi u1i ani speci f i cally ment j oned the 201.6 elect'ion,

6
7
8

9

server, and Buri sma as two anti corruption
investigatory topics of importance for the President. Let me
be clear..."

William Taylior said the same...

So just to be clear, you are siting the same Sondland who admitted to never talking directly with Trump in the same exact testimony? 

This is hearsay (the report of another person's words by a witness, which is usually disallowed as evidence in a court of law.). 

[James Clark]

So just to be clear, you are siting the same Sondland who admitted to never talking directly with Trump in the same exact testimony? 

Just to be clear, I'm citing Sondland, Taylor, Volker and Sondland's "revised" testimony where he "remembered" conversations previously forgotten, that everyone else apparently remembered well.   

This is hearsay.

Well, ok.   'Cept oddly enough, a lot of different people are "hearing" the same "say." 

[JoeKitchen]

Just to be clear, I'm citing Sondland, Taylor, Volker and Sondland's "revised" testimony where he "remembered" conversations previously forgotten, that everyone else apparently remembered well.   

Well, ok.   'Cept oddly enough, a lot of different people are "hearing" the same "say."

But no one who directly communicated with Trump about the event(s) in question.  It's pretty weak testimony. 

I'll will say that Trump is handling his defense pretty horribly, but that does not mean the Dems have the goods. 

[Alan Klein]

Just to be clear, I'm citing Sondland, Taylor, Volker and Sondland's "revised" testimony where he "remembered" conversations previously forgotten, that everyone else apparently remembered well.   

Well, ok.   'Cept oddly enough, a lot of different people are "hearing" the same "say." 

The problem is none of this helps Biden.  The more discussion you have on the matter, the more confusing it gets to the average voter and Biden looks like he did something wrong with his son.  Right now we're mainly hearing from the Democrats who are focusing on Trump.  But once the hearings get going, the Republican congressmen will be cross examining witnesses making Biden look even worse.  It a no-win situation for Biden.  He must be pulling out his plugs.   

[JoeKitchen]

Just to be clear, I'm citing Sondland, Taylor, Volker and Sondland's "revised" testimony where he "remembered" conversations previously forgotten, that everyone else apparently remembered well.   

Well, ok.   'Cept oddly enough, a lot of different people are "hearing" the same "say."

At the end of the day, Giuliani is going to take the fall for this whole mess and Trump will come out clean as a whistle, along with Biden going down with the ship. 

It's Trump M.O., find someone to blame.  Not that I think that is a particularly moral thing to do, but I pretty sure this is how this will work out.  And Giuliani has partly himself to blame; he is no longer the shrewd lawyer he use to be.  (I still cant believe this is the same Giuliani who took down the mob.) 

Then it will be Trump vs. Warren, and we all know how that will work out.  It will be another pick the lesser evil situation, and Trump is certainly the lesser evil in that choice. 

It came out the other day, many prominent Democratic donors told Schumer they will refuse to donate to any senate campaigns unless that senator specifically and publicly denounces Warren. 

It really appears both sides have a giant mess on their hands.