Impeaching Donald Trump

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Why is of interest to the country to submit to a political lynching? He represents his voters and I for one don't want him  to quit and roll over to Democrats who are using politics to impeach him looking for three years for something, anything, to get him.   

There's no constitutional crisis.  Everything is going according to the book (the Constitution.) Please explain how there is one?

+1

[ah693973]

Free and fair elections are the most important thing we have. Impeachment was added for situations just like this.

I did not say we are in a CC, I said we are rolling toward one. If Trump ignores a court ruling he doesn't like, we are there.

You seem to be cheering the demise of the constitution.

 

Why is of interest to the country to submit to a political lynching? He represents his voters and I for one don't want him  to quit and roll over to Democrats who are using politics to impeach him looking for three years for something, anything, to get him.   

There's no constitutional crisis.  Everything is going according to the book (the Constitution.) Please explain how there is one?

[ah693973]

Victim. I'm just a poor, innocent victim.

I don't buy it. Impeachment is in the constitution for a reason. And I would say it is much more likely there to prevent a president from colluding with a foreign government to interfere in a federal election than to punish a president for lying about a BJ.

 

It's not "nice".  It's political. The whole thing is political.  The Democrats have already convicted him.  They cheered in Congress when the vote was taken.  Everything they do is calculated to how the public will perceive it.  It's all a game.

[JoeKitchen]

That is not what I said.   Of course copyrights are of value but they are not patents.  The US has also given copyrights a real 'Mickey Mouse' treatment!!!

Nice one.   

[Peter McLennan]

It's all a game.

How depressing.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... It is not acceptable to do it by forcing a foreign power to collude for political gain. If we don't have free and fair elections, what do we have?

Say, hypothetically, that Ukraine did start an investigation. Exactly how would that make elections not free and fair? Voters would simply learn that that one candidate might be corrupt (or not) and would make up their own mind about it. Wouldn't that make the election actually more free and fair?

The real danger to free and fair elections would be colluding with a foreign power to hack into voting machines and change the outcome.

[ah693973]

Slobodan,

Decided to play?

Your arguments are disingenuous. You really think it isn't a disadvantage for a candidate to come under investigation? Silly.

One of the strongest tells here is that the "ask" was for a public announcement of the investigation. Why do you think that is?

Propaganda is just as dangerous as a voting machine hack. Democracy is nourished with truth. People are not good at resisting sophisticated propaganda. History is ripe with terrible examples.

Say, hypothetically, that Ukraine did start an investigation. Exactly how would that make elections not free and fair? Voters would simply learn that that one candidate might be corrupt (or not) and would make up their own mind about it. Wouldn't that make the election actually more free and fair?

The real danger to free and fair elections would be colluding with a foreign power to hack into voting machines and change the outcome.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Propaganda is just as dangerous as a voting machine hack...

We disagree on that one.

Whether it is a disadvantage or not remains to be seen. Half of the population would cheer it, the other half jeer it. Democracy rests not on some supreme power feeding only truth to the masses, but on the masses' ability to discern what is what. If they can't, they deserve what they got.

On a side note, I do not really see what the Ukraine investigation would achieve. Biden admitted what happened publicly, so the American voters already have all they need to know. No need for investigating him on that. As gaffe-prone as he is, I doubt that he is that stupid to leave a written document somewhere in Ukraine saying: "fire that SOB for investigating the company my son is on the board with."

What an Ukrainian investigation might be about is to find internally what led to dropping the case against Burisma (well, even that is clear, Biden's pressure) and more importantly, if the reason for firing the original prosecutor was indeed corruption, why the next one did not continue or reopen the case?

[Alan Klein]

Free and fair elections are the most important thing we have. Impeachment was added for situations just like this.

I did not say we are in a CC, I said we are rolling toward one. If Trump ignores a court ruling he doesn't like, we are there.

You seem to be cheering the demise of the constitution.

 

He's never ignored a court ruling.   You are making things up about him.

[ah693973]

As a thought experiment, what happens if propaganda gets so good that no one can resist. Is this good for a democracy? Does democracy even have meaning then?

 

We disagree on that one.

Whether it is a disadvantage or not remains to be seen. Half of the population would cheer it, the other half jeer it. Democracy rests not on some supreme power feeding only truth to the masses, but on the masses' ability to discern what is what. If they can't, they deserve what they got.

On a side note, I do not really see what the Ukraine investigation would achieve. Biden admitted what happened publicly, so the American voters already have all they need to know. No need for investigating him on that. As gaffe-prone as he is, I doubt that he is that stupid to leave a written document somewhere in Ukraine saying: "fire that SOB for investigating the company my son is on the board with."

What an Ukrainian investigation might be about is to find internally what led to dropping the case against Burisma (well, even that is clear, Biden's pressure) and more importantly, if the reason for firing the original prosecutor was indeed corruption, why the next one did not continue or reopen the case?

[ah693973]

Alan,

You are correct, that is why I said "if" and that is why I did not say we were in a CC, only that I feared we would be.

What are you going to do if it the speculation becomes true? Back Trump or the constitution?

He's never ignored a court ruling.   You are making things up about him.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... What are you going to do if it the speculation becomes true? Back Trump or the constitution?

The constitution.

But I won't forget to vote against Democrats in the next election. Or the Republicans who voted for his impeachment.

[Alan Klein]

Alan,

You are correct, that is why I said "if" and that is why I did not say we were in a CC, only that I feared we would be.

What are you going to do if it the speculation becomes true? Back Trump or the constitution?

When did you stop beating your wife?

[Robert Roaldi]

When did you stop beating your wife?

You are deliberately choosing to misread/misrepresent what he wrote. It wasn't even a subtle point. Do you think nobody notices what you're doing.

[LesPalenik]

When did you stop beating your wife?

This reply must be from the same posting library as the one below:

October 29, 2019, 02:39:10 pm
I think we beat this to death.  I'm signing off to get on with life.  Carry on.

[Alan Goldhammer]

You may be right that he will lose in court.  However, you don't even have that right to go to court in a grand Jury or have a defense counsel attending.  So the comparison to Grand Juries is not correct.  The president still has a right to object and defend himself to a much greater degree than in a grand jury.  I'll let our lawyers expand on this if they wish.

the trial takes place in the Senate, not the House.  Grand Juries can only indict, they do not sit for trials (I've been on one).

[Alan Goldhammer]

The transcripts for the depositions are now being released   As they come out you all can download them here:  https://intelligence.house.gov/  Talk about transparency!!!!

[ah693973]

Not yet. All she has to do is quit watching Fox News.

When did you stop beating your wife?

[ah693973]

Alan G,

That isn't how the game is played. Now it will be; "They are trying this case in the court of public opinion. Those dirty Dems should keep all this damning information private."

Trump always has to be the victim.

The transcripts for the depositions are now being released   As they come out you all can download them here:  https://intelligence.house.gov/  Talk about transparency!!!!

[Alan Klein]

Not yet. All she has to do is quit watching Fox News.

Apparently you're only one of the few anti-Trumpers around here who have a sense of humor.