Hasselblad X1D or Fuji GFX 50S

[SangRaal]

All you have to do is look at the Sony sensor roadmap to see what is going to happen in cropMF the BSI stacked 100mp production is slowly ramping up(first to P1 then to Fuji then to ?);  when that is in production the current 5 year old 50mp sensor will be replaced by a current design BSI stacked 50mp sensor. Currently Fuji claims to be committed at least in the 50R perhaps the 50S to the 50MP MF.

[Paul2660]

Phase One, did not use the cropped 100MP sensor, they went for the non BSI 100MP full size 645 chip (I realize that is a relative term).  The IQ4 100MP uses the Trichormatic chip that came out in late 2017, for a variant of the 3100. 

P1 IQ250/150/350 all use the same chip 50MP chip, P1 IQ3100 and 3100 Trichromatic use the 100MP non BSI 645 CMOS, Trichromatic uses a unique version of the same chip in the 3100.  P1 IQ4 100 uses the same Trichomatic chip 100MP non BSI,  IQ4 150 has the only BSI chip I know in a MF back or camera sold and available on the market.

Fuji should be the first company to bring a cropped BSI 100MP chip to market in their follow on to the 50S/R camera. 

Paul C

[eronald]

All you have to do is look at the Sony sensor roadmap to see what is going to happen in cropMF the BSI stacked 100mp production is slowly ramping up(first to P1 then to Fuji then to ?);  when that is in production the current 5 year old 50mp sensor will be replaced by a current design BSI stacked 50mp sensor. Currently Fuji claims to be committed at least in the 50R perhaps the 50S to the 50MP MF.

I believe there will be no new crop 50 because it costs almost the same as the 100 to make (same surface area, thus yield) but cameras with it need to be sold much cheaper.

[BJL]

Phase One, did not use the cropped 100MP sensor, they went for the non BSI 100MP full size 645 chip

Phase One is using Sony's new 100MP 44x33mm (can we just use actual format sizes, like we did withe medium- and large-format format film?!) but only in the iXM-100 camera for aerial photography: https://industrial.phaseone.com/iXM_Camera_Series.aspx
Maybe Phase One got it first because initial low production volumes were adequate for that niche product, or because a higher dead-pixel count in early production is more tolerable in that "technical" usage than in high-end artistic photography.

The talk of low sales volume hampering MF sensor development is exaggerated I think—firstly because Sony can fairly easily scale up and down sensor sizes using the same core technology for photosites and such; secondly because there is a potentially large hidden market of industrial and technical uses for these sensors, for which we do not know much about sales volume. In fact, the 3.76 micron photosite design in these new 44x33mm and 54x40mm sensors is not yet in 36x24mm format sensors!

P. S. I agree that the 50MP 44x33 sensor will go away once existing stocks are used—for one thing Sony no longer lists it at its product web-site.

[ErikKaffehr]

I believe there will be no new crop 50 because it costs almost the same as the 100 to make (same surface area, thus yield) but cameras with it need to be sold much cheaper.

Me too!

Erik

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

A few years ago the MFD market was estimated to be around 10000 units/year.

Looking a at Lens Rentals statistics may give some insight, at their site it seems Hasselblad rental share is 0.22%.

The figure is probably not very relevant, but it seems Lens Rental's is mostly working with professionals

Best regards
Erik

I agree. I just didn't want upset the dealers too much!

[Paul2660]

Phase One is using Sony's new 100MP 44x33mm (can be we just use actual format sizes, like we did withe medium- and large-format format film?!) but only in the iXM-100 camera for aerial photography: https://industrial.phaseone.com/iXM_Camera_Series.aspx
Maybe Phase One got it first because initial low production volumes were adequate for that niche product, or because a higher dead-pixel count in early production is more tolerable in that "technical" usage than in high-end artistic photography.

The talk of low sales volume hampering MF sensor development is exaggerated I think—firstly because Sony can fairly easily scale up and down sensor sizes using the same core technology for photosites and such; secondly because there is a potentially large hidden market of industrial and technical uses for these sensors, for which we do not know much about sales volume. In fact, the 3.76 micron photosite design in these new 44x33mm and 54x40mm sensors is not yet in 36x24mm format sensors!


You got me, I forgot about the industrial cameras!! good point. 

Paul C
P. S. I agree that the 50MP 44x33 sensor will go away once existing stocks are used—for one thing Sony no longer lists it at its product web-site.

[BobShaw]

Hi,
A few years ago the MFD market was estimated to be around 10000 units/year.
Looking a at Lens Rentals statistics may give some insight, at their site it seems Hasselblad rental share is 0.22%.
The figure is probably not very relevant, but it seems Lens Rental's is mostly working with professionals
Best regards
Erik

I think the figures presented are probably close to the general market share for the brands. A lot of things influence rentals though. People often rent a lens to try it out. Once it has been out for a while if you need then you buy it. Consumer cameras have new lenses all the time, so shiny new things to try out.

Personally I was ecstatic to get a 50MP medium format camera that I can fit in my pocket. It does everything I need alongside my Canon. The downside is 75MB files. Do I want and would I pay for a 100MP with 150MB files. No, unless it was the same price.

The old, old, story about "build it and they will come" is a myth to me. There are those that will buy a new phone every year because it is new and shiny. There are not many of those in the medium format market.

[eronald]

The old, old, story about "build it and they will come" is a myth to me. There are those that will buy a new phone every year because it is new and shiny. There are not many of those in the medium format market.

Actually, I think a lot of "hedge fund" style guys and Getty-type museums will buy the top of the line megapixel products whatever the pricing. The same is probably true of some aerial or architecture photographers.

Edmund

[NancyP]

I would think that high-MP reproduction camera set-ups would be pretty universal in museums and archives. High-MP set-ups would likely use mosaic technique.

[eronald]

I would think that high-MP reproduction camera set-ups would be pretty universal in museums and archives. High-MP set-ups would likely use mosaic technique.

I think they will try for single click as much as possible, especially for non-flat objects

Edmund