Sony a7R (1st gen) Lens Mount Play

[LimbicSystemPhotoworks]

My Sony 70-200 f/4 and my 24-70 f/4 lenses exhibit a fair amount of rotational play in them when they are mounted to my a7R (1st generation) body. There isn't any play in other planes, but I am wondering if this could result in missed focus or other(?) issues. How much is too much or should there be NONE...?

[DP]

My Sony 70-200 f/4 and my 24-70 f/4 lenses exhibit a fair amount of rotational play in them when they are mounted to my a7R (1st generation) body. There isn't any play in other planes, but I am wondering if this could result in missed focus or other(?) issues. How much is too much or should there be NONE...?

I believe the replacement (body) mounts are still being sold ... for example = https://fotodioxpro.com/products/snye-toughe-p-se15-lt

[LimbicSystemPhotoworks]

Thanks DP. I had one of those, but I returned it (fit was still not optimal), and Sony replaced it under warranty. Even with that there is still (1/8" =/-) rotational play. I didn't know if this was considered normal/within tolerance...

[FabienP]

There was rotational play on my A7 too, but it was just a few millimeters and did not affect camera operation or IQ. AFAIK it was considered normal by Sony but was nevertheless solved in the next generation of A7 bodies . 1st gen bodies were flawed in many aspects, especially the A7r with its lack of EFCS.

You could try doing test shots of the same pattern and move the lens between shots to see if it affects IQ or not.

Cheers,

Fabien

[LimbicSystemPhotoworks]

There was rotational play on my A7 too, but it was just a few millimeters and did not affect camera operation or IQ. AFAIK it was considered normal by Sony but was nevertheless solved in the next generation of A7 bodies . 1st gen bodies were flawed in many aspects, especially the A7r with its lack of EFCS.

You could try doing test shots of the same pattern and move the lens between shots to see if it affects IQ or not.

Cheers,

Fabien

Thanks Fabien.

I am going to betray my ignorance and admit that I do not know what either "IQ" or "EFCS" stand for...

Best,
Jerry

[BernardLanguillier]

I am going to betray my ignorance and admit that I do not know what either "IQ" or "EFCS" stand for...

IQ - image quality?
EFCS - Electronic First Curtain Shutter? Or... it's the name of some Chinese esoteric sect.

Cheers,
Bernard

[LimbicSystemPhotoworks]

IQ - image quality?
EFCS - Electronic First Curtain Shutter? Or... it's the name of some Chinese esoteric sect.

Cheers,
Bernard

Ah so.... Eye see....!

[davidgp]

IQ - image quality?
EFCS - Electronic First Curtain Shutter? Or... it's the name of some Chinese esoteric sect.

Cheers,
Bernard

Yes, IQ is image quality, I supposse Fabian is talking about the RAW compresion with loss that first Sony files had, fixed in series II of the cameras.

About the EFCS, the Sony A7r has a big problem with shutter speeds between 1/10 to 1/100 and focal lengths bigger than 50mm (if my memory does not fail me). When the shutter curtain moves in front of the sensor and moves away to take the picture, the vibration introduced affects the quality of the picture in those cameras. That was very commented around internet. Electronic First Curtain Shutter fix this, but the 36 Mpx sensor of the A7r didn't allowed it. This problem was also presented in the Nikon D800/E sensor that shared the same behaviour, but Nikon had two main advantages that make it less noticiable or notiable at all. Bigger body that absorved better the vibration and the shutter only needs to go up, instead of down and up like in the Sony A7r, less mechanical movement. For any mirrorless camera with sensor bigger that 24 megapixles, EFCS activated is a must... and it does not affect image quality (like silent shutter series II of Sony cameras, not sure for series III, the A9 is not affected...).

About the mount issue of the original poster, sorry, I have never had any series I camera from Sony, I went directly to series II.

[LimbicSystemPhotoworks]

Yes, IQ is image quality, I supposse Fabian is talking about the RAW compresion with loss that first Sony files had, fixed in series II of the cameras.

About the EFCS, the Sony A7r has a big problem with shutter speeds between 1/10 to 1/100 and focal lengths bigger than 50mm (if my memory does not fail me). When the shutter curtain moves in front of the sensor and moves away to take the picture, the vibration introduced affects the quality of the picture in those cameras. That was very commented around internet. Electronic First Curtain Shutter fix this, but the 36 Mpx sensor of the A7r didn't allowed it. This problem was also presented in the Nikon D800/E sensor that shared the same behaviour, but Nikon had two main advantages that make it less noticiable or notiable at all. Bigger body that absorved better the vibration and the shutter only needs to go up, instead of down and up like in the Sony A7r, less mechanical movement. For any mirrorless camera with sensor bigger that 24 megapixles, EFCS activated is a must... and it does not affect image quality (like silent shutter series II of Sony cameras, not sure for series III, the A9 is not affected...).

About the mount issue of the original poster, sorry, I have never had any series I camera from Sony, I went directly to series II.

Thanks David,

So... apparently this focus issue I am experiencing is best resolved by getting a later generation camera. I wonder when the 4th generation will be unveiled. Whenever it occurs, I hope they have a fully articulating screen...!

[FabienP]

Thanks David,

So... apparently this focus issue I am experiencing is best resolved by getting a later generation camera. I wonder when the 4th generation will be unveiled. Whenever it occurs, I hope they have a fully articulating screen...!

4th generation bodies will probably not happen sooner than originally planned by Sony, unless sales of Canikon mirorless cameras are higher than expected. Anyway, all the problems you listed are solved in gen II bodies, which are currently available at very good prices (new or used). Unless you need faster AF, this might fit your needs. I have decided to skip gen III and will wait for what comes afterwards.

Also, thanks to Bernard and David for answering the questions!

Cheers,

Fabien

[davidgp]

Thanks David,

So... apparently this focus issue I am experiencing is best resolved by getting a later generation camera. I wonder when the 4th generation will be unveiled. Whenever it occurs, I hope they have a fully articulating screen...!

I think this is a still good camera... with its limitations... that 36 MPx sensor still gives really nice images...



http://dgpfotografia.com

[chez]

I think this is a still good camera... with its limitations... that 36 MPx sensor still gives really nice images...



http://dgpfotografia.com

Especially for the used price of $700 that this camera is going for. Great little camera for landscapes.

[D Fuller]

4th generation bodies will probably not happen sooner than originally planned by Sony, unless sales of Canikon mirorless cameras are higher than expected. Anyway, all the problems you listed are solved in gen II bodies, which are currently available at very good prices (new or used). Unless you need faster AF, this might fit your needs. I have decided to skip gen III and will wait for what comes afterwards.

Also, thanks to Bernard and David for answering the questions!

Cheers,

Fabien

Having both a first gen a7s and a 3rd gen a7r3, and having had a gen2 a7r2, I would advise skipping gen 2 if you replace the camera you have. The a7r3 is a MUCH better camera than the r2 version. I know the gen 2 camera’s are selling for less money, but the gen 3 Camera is worth the difference. Who knows what gen 4 will being? But  with gen 3 the Sonys went from being a gadget with a sensor to a camera.

[chez]

Having both a first gen a7s and a 3rd gen a7r3, and having had a gen2 a7r2, I would advise skipping gen 2 if you replace the camera you have. The a7r3 is a MUCH better camera than the r2 version. I know the gen 2 camera’s are selling for less money, but the gen 3 Camera is worth the difference. Who knows what gen 4 will being? But  with gen 3 the Sonys went from being a gadget with a sensor to a camera.

Please elaborate what features in the Gen 3 made it a camera over the gadget Gen 2 camera. I know one thing that is sorely missed in Gen 3 is the play memories apps.

[D Fuller]

Please elaborate what features in the Gen 3 made it a camera over the gadget Gen 2 camera. I know one thing that is sorely missed in Gen 3 is the play memories apps.

In a word: responsiveness. There are other tweaks that matter, but that one matters the most. With the r2, I always felt like I was waiting for the camera—for focus, for wake up, but most importantly, for the shutter. I’d press the shutter button, and it never felt like its reaction was immediate. That was worse in single shot. With the r3, the camera response is noticeably quicker everywhere, but especially shutter response.

Other tweaks that matter—the viewfinder is dramatically better, to the point where it starts to seem like a viewfinder instead of a low-res viewing screen. The bigger grip makes the camera feel a lot more solid, and makes it more comfortable to hold for a day. A bigger battery makes the power consumption a non-issue—a batter6 lasts all day for stills; it lasts all morning for video. The shutter is quieter. Focusing is better (though focusing on Sonys is very lens-dependent, so some newer lenses play a part there).

I can see why you’d miss the apps. And I can’t understand why there is no intervalometer in such a sophisticated camera.

[LimbicSystemPhotoworks]

Having both a first gen a7s and a 3rd gen a7r3, and having had a gen2 a7r2, I would advise skipping gen 2 if you replace the camera you have. The a7r3 is a MUCH better camera than the r2 version. I know the gen 2 camera’s are selling for less money, but the gen 3 Camera is worth the difference. Who knows what gen 4 will being? But  with gen 3 the Sonys went from being a gadget with a sensor to a camera.

Good info. I was hoping that gen 3 would have a fully articulating screen, but no... I got tired of waiting (and waiting, and waiting), so I pre-ordered the new Canon EOS R:

PLUSSES
- Fully articulating screen/monitor
- Super user-friendly and highly customizable menu system
- Rated to LV -6 for autofocus, which means that it can focus in almost total darkness
- Silent shutter
- Shutter closes when off (so no dust problems like Sony and Nikon)
- 5000+ Focus points (yes 5 THOUSAND, not 5 hundred...)
- Superior auto-focus
- 8 fps (double what my Sony gives)
- Reasonably priced...!
MINUSES
- 12 stops of dynamic range (2 less than the a7R)

I don't know what I'll do with the a7R yet, I will probably hang on to it for a little while, but will likely sell it (and the 7 or 8 lenses I bought for it) in the not-too-distant future.

[faberryman]

You can get a third party metal replacement lens mount for not much money that might solve your issue. If it doesn't, you can always return it.