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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 1374079 times)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2380 on: April 20, 2017, 09:57:37 am »

... Lots of people/voters are quite gullible (and only get informed through Social Media) and will be influenced in their (not) voting behavior.

A small percentage that believed it true does not necessarily mean they'd change their mind about voting for her. After all, many people believed all those stories about Trump to be true, and still voted for him.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2381 on: April 20, 2017, 10:00:37 am »

A small percentage that believed it true does not necessarily mean they'd change their mind about voting for her. After all, many people believed all those stories about Trump to be true, and still voted for him.

Because they believed he'd get them their jobs back?

As I said, gullible.

Cheers,
Bart
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== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

EricV

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2382 on: April 20, 2017, 12:47:28 pm »

More "Patriots" showed up for Obama than Trump...Well, heck, his is gonna piss him off don't ya think?
Wonder how this will be explained by Spicy :~)

Fake news?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/04/19/these-photos-show-patriots-white-house-turnout-for-trump-obama/bSrXdd9bP2sgczgb1J10RL/story.html
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2383 on: April 20, 2017, 12:54:15 pm »

Comey's last-minute Clinton emails revaluations.
Yes, a lot of people point to this but the central question is often missed.  What the heck were they even doing on Anthony Wiener's laptop to begin with.  Was Clinton's top assistant, Huma Abedin that naive that she used her husband's laptop to manager her email account?  This has to go down as one of the most foolish things anyone has done who held such a high position.  If there is someone central to blame it is Ms. Abedin.  Comey was in a difficult position on this one because of the New York bureau who absolutely loathed Clinton and were constantly leaking things to the Trump campaign through Giuliani. 
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2384 on: April 20, 2017, 12:58:23 pm »


At the end of the day, after all of this settles, the story will be that HRC was a bad candidate that ran a bad campaign.  Trump will be a bad candidate that ran a "better" campaign.

Hillary's legacy is being probably the only person who could lose to a buffoon like Trump. That's some accomplishment.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2385 on: April 20, 2017, 01:11:49 pm »


Lots of people/voters are quite gullible (and only get informed through Social Media) and will be influenced in their (not) voting behavior.

Cheers,
Bart
It's far worse than that.  I recently finished reading a great book called "Democracy for Realists:  Why Elections Don't Produce Responsive Governments" by Achen and Bartels, two well known American political scientists.  The book is a bit depressing when you see some of the data they present and their pessimistic conclusions.  Good book review is HERE.  Bartels's take on the 2016 election is HERE.

Most voters align themselves with groups and seldom change.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2386 on: April 20, 2017, 01:13:46 pm »

Hillary's legacy is being probably the only person who could lose to a buffoon like Trump. That's some accomplishment.

Ironically, there were also more than a dozen Republican candidates who lost to Trump.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2387 on: April 20, 2017, 04:27:13 pm »

Cost of Trump's trips to Florida: Up to $3 million per trip, 7 trips in 13 weeks.
Obama spent 97 millions in 8 years. If Trump continues his travels at the same pace, his travel costs will go into hundreds of million dollars. And that doesn't include any international flights.
In addition, the protection for Melania and their son Barron in New York costs betwen half a million to one million dollars per day.
 
Compare this with the $102 million cut to NASA’s Earth science programs, eliminating completely four NASA Earth science missions.
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2388 on: April 21, 2017, 01:27:26 am »

No surprise here yet it still sucks...

Debate over pesticides enters Donald Trump’s ‘swamp’

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By Steve Benen
At first blush, it may seem like an obscure, technical debate. The Associated Press reports that a four-year review conducted by government scientists of three pesticides – chlorpyrifos, diazinon and malathion – found that they “pose a risk to nearly every endangered species they studied.” Federal agencies are poised to issue findings on how to limit use of these pesticides.

The story takes on a broader political significance, however, when we consider what one of the pesticide manufacturers is up to. The AP explained:
Dow Chemical is pushing the Trump administration to scrap the findings of federal scientists who point to a family of widely used pesticides as harmful to about 1,800 critically threatened or endangered species.

Lawyers representing Dow, whose CEO also heads a White House manufacturing working group, and two other makers of organophosphates sent letters last week to the heads of three Cabinet agencies. The companies asked them “to set aside” the results of government studies the companies contend are fundamentally flawed.


As one might imagine, Dow is pointing to its own research, which is in conflict with the information compiled by government scientists.

If this sounds familiar, there’s a good reason. EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt, Donald Trump’s controversial far-right choice to lead the agency, decided two weeks ago to side with Dow Chemical – against the advice of the EPA’s researchers – on the use of chlorpyrifos, one of the insecticides in question.

Now, apparently, Dow Chemical wants Team Trump to side with the company once more.

And talking about Scott Pruitt and what he's gonna do to the EPA, he was here in Chicago (East Chicago actually) visiting his first Superfund site. He's got a new marketing slogan for his new EPA, #Back2Basics. Hum sound like Make America Great Again? Take the EPA and move it back to a time that allowed this Superfund site in the first place?

Scott Pruitt's New Plan for the EPA Will Destroy Towns Like This One


The Times via AP/John J. Watkins
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The Environmental Protection Agency's administrator has found a slogan for his embattled agency's new direction. Last week, Scott Pruitt announced a #Back2Basics campaign that proposes returning the EPA to its supposed roots: protecting the environment, spurring job growth, and not burdening industry with rules and regulations. Pruitt might see firsthand the problems with this vision on Wednesday when he visits East Chicago, Indiana, a mostly black and Latino city of 29,000 that is home to a Superfund site and a host of other environmental problems.

Local officials, including Indiana's Republican governor, Eric Holcomb, urged Pruitt to visit the site and address the issues surrounding the cleanup process, which has been lagging for several years. The site is known as USS Lead, referring to the smelting facility that operated there between 1906 and 1985, turning refined copper and lead into batteries and other products and, in the process, contaminating the soil in the area with lead and arsenic. The site was added to the National Priorities list in 2009, which means it's one of the most polluted sites in the country.

The EPA began conducting soil tests at the site in late 2009 and finally reached a consent decree with the liable companies in 2014. The White House has proposed a cut to funding for the Superfund program, but Pruitt told the U.S. Conference of Mayors in March that he believes it's vital. But his #Back2Basics plans for the EPA, which includes rolling back regulations for companies, would lead to additional problems in East Chicago. Abigail Dillen of Earthjustice.org said the plan is simply getting rid of "the health and environmental protections we all rely on—protections only the government can provide."

It would have been nice if Pruit's trip included meeting with some of the displaced residents but no, Pruit pulled a quick escape...

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Update, April 20, 2017: Scott Pruitt's trip to East Chicago drew ire from residents after he kept the visit short and spent no time talking to residents or taking questions, opting only to talk to local politicians. A Periscope video recorded by local reporter Michael Puente of WBEZ-Chicago also showed Pruitt speaking for less than two minutes at the press conference.

The NAACP’s Indiana Environmental Climate Justice group invited Pruitt to their meeting. They tweeted that he did not show up.

So, he shows up, talks two minutes and leaves without talking to anybody other than selected politicians and this is supposed to help how?

#MAGA #Back2Basics #DON'TPLAYINTHEDIRT
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2389 on: April 21, 2017, 01:52:37 am »

Well, this was an adult gathering at the Whitehouse...



Sarah Palin, Kid Rock, Ted Nugent Visit Trump; Troll Hillary

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President Donald Trump welcomed Sarah Palin for dinner at the White House on Wednesday, and she brought rockers Ted Nugent and Kid Rock with her.

The trio were photographed in the Oval Office with President Trump, and they even took a photo in front of the Hillary Clinton portrait.



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“A great night at the White House,” Palin wrote on Facebook. “Thank you to President Trump for the invite!”

Palin wrote about the dinner, explaining her choice of guests to bring:

President Trump’s invitation for dinner included bringing a couple of friends; it was the highest honor to have great Americans who are independent, hardworking, patriotic, and unafraid share commonsense solutions at the White House. (Asked why I invited Kid Rock and Ted Nugent I joked, “Because Jesus was booked.“)

This is nightmarish....#WingNutsLoose in the Whitehouse...pretty sure Ronald Reagan is turning over in his grave :~(

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Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2390 on: April 21, 2017, 06:45:03 am »

It is my sincere hope that this is the closest that Palin ever gets to the oval office.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2391 on: April 21, 2017, 05:37:03 pm »

Lawsuit against Trump over foreign payments expands:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-lawsuit-idUSKBN17K1WE

"A nonprofit watchdog expanded a lawsuit accusing U.S. President Donald Trump of violating the Constitution by letting his hotels and restaurants accept payments from foreign governments."

"The amended complaint said Trump violates the Constitution's "emoluments" clause, which bars him from accepting various gifts from foreign governments without congressional approval, by maintaining ownership over his business empire despite ceding day-to-day control to his sons, Eric and Donald Jr.

It said members of Restaurant Opportunities Centers (ROC) United Inc, which represents more than 200 restaurants and nearly 25,000 workers, have improperly lost business, wages and tips to Trump's competing businesses."


Cheers,
Bart
When you pay for a hotel room, it's not a gift.  They're paying for a service just like anyone else who rents the room for a night.  If someone buys a Trump steak. that wouldn't be a gift either.  It would be no different if he sold his business totally.  That wouldn't be a gift either.  Unless you can show that he got paid more than was the fair amount for the product, business or service.  Then that could be shown as a bribe if he returned something beyond the real world value.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2392 on: April 21, 2017, 07:22:28 pm »

Welcome to the islamization of the West:

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/detroit-doctor-and-wife-arrested-and-charged-conspiring-perform-female-genital-mutilation

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Doctor Fakhruddin Attar and wife Farida were arrested near Detroit for conspiring to commit and aiding in female genital mutilation of girls as young as six-years-old. The Attars allegedly allowed the procedure to be carried in their Livonia medical clinic. Mrs. Attar even held the hands of the girls screaming in pain.

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2393 on: April 21, 2017, 07:52:44 pm »

When you pay for a hotel room, it's not a gift.  They're paying for a service just like anyone else who rents the room for a night.  If someone buys a Trump steak. that wouldn't be a gift either.  It would be no different if he sold his business totally.  That wouldn't be a gift either.  Unless you can show that he got paid more than was the fair amount for the product, business or service.  Then that could be shown as a bribe if he returned something beyond the real world value.

Except that it's not about just gifts.  An emolument also covers salaries, fees, or general profits resulting from your employment or office.  Trump made a profit, through his business (since he still owns it) when selling those services.  In and of itself that is normal for a business operator.  However, he demonstrably only obtained that business because of his office (the Prime Minister of Japan and all the entourage would not have dined at his restaurant on those occasions except as a result of his being the President).  Even if he "sold" the service at cost, it's still a benefit for his business because of exposure and that sale at cost still pays salaries which benefits his business.  Only if there was no charge would it possibly be acceptable, but even then there's a likelihood of benefit through exposure, but I suspect most everyone would be prepared to ignore that if there was no actual payment to his business (personally, I'd be OK with that as his business gets exposure just through his being President - although he really shouldn't continue to have any influence over his businesses whilst in office, and on that level he is still very wrong).
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Phil Brown

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2394 on: April 22, 2017, 08:16:00 am »

The best news item in a while:

http://www.theonion.com/article/berkeley-campus-lockdown-after-loose-pages-wall-st-55815
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BERKELEY, CA—Advising students to remain in their dormitories and classrooms until the situation was resolved, the University of California, Berkeley declared a campuswide lockdown Thursday after several loose pages from The Wall Street Journal were found on a park bench outside a school building. “At 11:15 this morning, several pages from two separate sections of today’s Wall Street Journal were discovered spread across a bench outside of Eshleman Hall in Lower Sproul Plaza,” read the urgent alert sent to all students and faculty, emphasizing that while campus security and local police had safely disposed of the pages, there was no way of knowing if others were strewn elsewhere on university grounds. “As of now, the perpetrator remains at large, so it is vital that you stay where you are until the all-clear is given. In the meantime, notify police immediately if you have any additional information at all regarding this incident.” At press time, a black-clad group of 50 students were throwing bottles at the bench while chanting, “No Nazis, No KKK, No Fascist U.S.A!”

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2395 on: April 22, 2017, 10:05:40 am »

Except that it's not about just gifts.  An emolument also covers salaries, fees, or general profits resulting from your employment or office.  Trump made a profit, through his business (since he still owns it) when selling those services.  In and of itself that is normal for a business operator.  However, he demonstrably only obtained that business because of his office (the Prime Minister of Japan and all the entourage would not have dined at his restaurant on those occasions except as a result of his being the President).  Even if he "sold" the service at cost, it's still a benefit for his business because of exposure and that sale at cost still pays salaries which benefits his business.  Only if there was no charge would it possibly be acceptable, but even then there's a likelihood of benefit through exposure, but I suspect most everyone would be prepared to ignore that if there was no actual payment to his business (personally, I'd be OK with that as his business gets exposure just through his being President - although he really shouldn't continue to have any influence over his businesses whilst in office, and on that level he is still very wrong).

"I'm sorry Mr. Trump.  You're too successful to be President.  We need people to run our country who just don't know what it is to be really successful.  Certainly not someone who is smart enough to own hundreds of businesses and running them in many states and countries.  Being a great CEO and entrepreneur is just not a qualification we desire in our chief executive.  Well, maybe if you owned a butcher shop, that might be ok. You don't have to be poor, but you shouldn't be much higher than middle class, well, maybe upper middle class.  I know a democracy means anyone can be President.  But don't believe everything your read.  That's just preached in kindergarten."

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2396 on: April 22, 2017, 05:43:49 pm »

"I'm sorry Mr. Trump.  You're too successful to be President.  We need people to run our country who just don't know what it is to be really successful.  Certainly not someone who is smart enough to own hundreds of businesses and running them in many states and countries.  Being a great CEO and entrepreneur is just not a qualification we desire in our chief executive.  Well, maybe if you owned a butcher shop, that might be ok. You don't have to be poor, but you shouldn't be much higher than middle class, well, maybe upper middle class.  I know a democracy means anyone can be President.  But don't believe everything your read.  That's just preached in kindergarten."

Your reply is pretty much the equivalent of "no, you are" as far as witty responses go.

Firstly, it's highly debateable as to whether Trump is particularly successful.  He started with a huge sum and really has not added to it greatly.  We've had this discussion before.

But the thing is, you've completely ignored the point (presumably because you have no response to it).  He's likely in breach of the constitution.  The constitution doesn't say "anyone can be President".  It strictly limits who can hold such office and how they must behave once they are elected to it.  If you're relying on the kindergarten explanation then that's probably a sign of what's wrong.  The grown ups understand that you need to read past the popular headlines.

There's no problem with him being wealthy - the problem is when he uses the office for his own personal benefit - that's what the constitution prohibits.  I'm sorry if the term emolument didn't mean what you thought it meant and actually has a defined meaning and encompasses exactly the sort of thing that Trump is doing, but that's the way it is.
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Phil Brown

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2397 on: April 23, 2017, 08:38:52 am »

Your reply is pretty much the equivalent of "no, you are" as far as witty responses go.

Firstly, it's highly debateable as to whether Trump is particularly successful.  He started with a huge sum and really has not added to it greatly.  We've had this discussion before.

But the thing is, you've completely ignored the point (presumably because you have no response to it).  He's likely in breach of the constitution.  The constitution doesn't say "anyone can be President".  It strictly limits who can hold such office and how they must behave once they are elected to it.  If you're relying on the kindergarten explanation then that's probably a sign of what's wrong.  The grown ups understand that you need to read past the popular headlines.

There's no problem with him being wealthy - the problem is when he uses the office for his own personal benefit - that's what the constitution prohibits.  I'm sorry if the term emolument didn't mean what you thought it meant and actually has a defined meaning and encompasses exactly the sort of thing that Trump is doing, but that's the way it is.
No, I didn't miss what the constitution said.  "Delegates to that convention agreed that executive officers of the new national government they were creating could not accept “any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State” without congressional consent, and could be thrown out of office by Congress for taking bribes from anyone. But they didn’t make any rules constricting officials’ investments and business interests."

The framers to the constitution did not want to limit the presidency much beyond having to be 35 years old and a natural born citizen.  George Washington, our first President,  was a filthy rich landowner, who owned over 100 slaves and had his fingers in all sorts of business enterprises.  He became rich like Trump did through his family and other connections.  Washington married one of the wealthiest women in Virginia.  He grew tobacco which was greatly desired and purchased by Europeans at the time, so one could argue that he could have made deals with monarchs over there that enriched him even further.   Many of his contemporaries and writers of the constitution were likewise in business and wealthy.  They did not want to give up their wealth either and therefore had no intention of limiting a president's business interests.  Of course, they didn't want the president to take a bribe either from anyone and that is another reason for impeachment.

The emolument clause has never been tested.  It relates to taking a gift from a foreign king or country.  The writers of the constitution were concerned that a monarch, particularly the French one at the time, would try to influence America's foreign policy by giving gifts to the president.  Certainly if Trump's conflicts became too great,  he can be impeached by Congress and/or not re-elected.  In the end, it was Hillary who actually sold her office for political influence.  Her whole Clinton Initiative was about selling speeches for access to the Clinton's power.  Of course, now that she lost, the Initiative has closed down, which shows just how much it was a way of getting rich from being a politician.  At least, Trump didn't make his money from being a politician. 



Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2398 on: April 23, 2017, 09:25:48 am »

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Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2399 on: April 23, 2017, 07:44:30 pm »

No, I didn't miss what the constitution said.  "Delegates to that convention agreed that executive officers of the new national government they were creating could not accept “any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State” without congressional consent, and could be thrown out of office by Congress for taking bribes from anyone. But they didn’t make any rules constricting officials’ investments and business interests."

If Trump owns a business and that business makes a profit from a foreign State (i.e. from a government official or office holder on official business from that foreign state) then it's a breach. 
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Phil Brown
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