Pages: 1 ... 108 109 [110] 111 112 ... 331   Go Down

Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 1379941 times)

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2180 on: April 07, 2017, 07:38:56 am »


My personal gut feel, which is suspect of course as I have no special knowledge of these issues, is that this is a show for the evening news. I hate to be so cynical, but so far as I can tell, it's not possible to be cynical enough.


A lot of shows going around apparently.

https://bbcpanoramasavingsyriaschildren.wordpress.com
Logged

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5338
    • advantica blog
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2181 on: April 07, 2017, 08:35:36 am »

There is a recent book by Janine di Giovanni - The morning They Came For Us: Dispatches From Syria
Very good reportage, quite graphic account of atrocities committed by all parties in the current war, and examples how the Syrian nation was broken down into smaller tribes and factions.

https://www.amazon.com/Morning-They-Came-Us/dp/1408851105/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1491567668&sr=8-2&keywords=janine+di+giovanni

Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2182 on: April 07, 2017, 10:35:47 am »

WTH!?

Peter McLennan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4692
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2183 on: April 07, 2017, 10:54:23 am »

Trump also sent a message to all others that there's a new sheriff in town who means business.

My goodness, Alan! You've certainly changed your tune. I thought you were dead against the concept of America the Global Policeman.
Logged

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5338
    • advantica blog
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2184 on: April 07, 2017, 11:10:04 am »

WTH!?

Well, a day before he said that he changed his mind about Syria, and could be that some of those rockets were meant as a warning for North Korea.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2185 on: April 07, 2017, 12:02:35 pm »

My goodness, Alan! You've certainly changed your tune. I thought you were dead against the concept of America the Global Policeman.

You may be right.  I seem to be ambivalent about it.  On the one hand, I don't want to be the world's policeman.  We spend too much money and bleed too much.  Meanwhile, other countries who should help ignore it and go their own way worried about themselves or help just enough to say they've done something.  Often, it doesn't seem to get us anywhere except more problems.  But then I see that if we don't do something, no one else will and that encourages bad actors around the world.  Obama's leading from behind and backing off just encouraged Russia in the Crimea and Ukraine and China on those islands in the South China Sea.  Iran gained by his lack of decisiveness and fecklessness.


I really think that Trump sent a message with his unilateral attack on the Syrian airfield.  I don't think his attempt was to depose Assad but did accomplish a lot of other things in one fell swoop.

1.   Satisfies anti-Putin Republicans like McCain and Democrats and limits concern about collusion.
2.   Will help his poll numbers.  Dropping bombs are always more impressive than dropping tweets.  He made his bones.
3.   Encourages allies we’ll support them if needed.
4.   Scares bullies into no longer thinking they can do whatever they want.
5.   Shows Chairman Xi that if he doesn’t help with N. Korean nukes, America will solve the issue on its own as he said he would. That's going to push Xi.
6.   No. Korea has to think that America might act on its own.
7.   Tells Chairman Xi that if China uses the militarized South China Sea islands against our friends, we just might sink the islands.
8.   Encourages our Pacific allies that America will be there for them.  That will stop their current drift to China.
9.   Encourages our Middle East friends like Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, etc that they can depend on us.  Some started to look to Russia.  Now they'll re-think that.
10.   Tells everyone America will operate on its own if its interests are threatened.  We don’t necessarily need a coalition and won’t wait for one to act.  That includes the U.N. and their annoying vetoes. 
11.   Willing to change his mind if the situation demands it.  He won’t lock himself into past statements.  Willing to grow and evolve and learn.  The liberal media keeps playing his old policy beliefs when he was a real estate magnate to attack him.  No one else cares?  The rest of the world doesn't, for sure.  They only care and will act on what he'll do now.


That’s a lot of stuff for just a few missiles.

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4349
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2186 on: April 07, 2017, 01:13:04 pm »

the chance of the US getting involved in a serious war has now increased markedly.  I don't think any of us know who is calling the shots right now.
Logged

Schewe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6231
    • http:www.schewephoto.com
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2187 on: April 07, 2017, 03:19:15 pm »

Did he really say that!? " “I think we’ve had one of the most successful 13 weeks in the history of the presidency.”!?

Yes at a gaggle on the plane down to Palm Beach...

Of course, the funny part is he has been president for for only 11 weeks, not 13 weeks. But yes, he actually thinks his presidency has been one of the most successful 13 weeks in the history of the presidency...

Just to prove it's not #FAKENEWS, here's a transcript the Whitehouse posted: Remarks by President Trump to the Press -- Aboard Air Force One En Route West Palm Beach, Florida April 6th, 2017

Edited to add WH link
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 03:27:37 pm by Schewe »
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2188 on: April 07, 2017, 04:49:34 pm »

So, something happened in Sweden after all. My condolences to our Swedish friends. The question, though, is: why are they attacking a country that is apparently the most welcoming for refugees and not engaged in any military operations against Muslim countries?

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5338
    • advantica blog
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2189 on: April 07, 2017, 04:58:56 pm »

Good question. I don't think ISIS has any grand plan as to the time and place of the next attack. It can (and unfortunately will) happen anywhere.


Logged

Bart_van_der_Wolf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8919
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2190 on: April 07, 2017, 05:14:16 pm »

So, something happened in Sweden after all. My condolences to our Swedish friends. The question, though, is: why are they attacking a country that is apparently the most welcoming for refugees and not engaged in any military operations against Muslim countries?

Who knows what goes on in the warped mind of such a brainwashed coward (assuming the perpetrator was an ISIS and Jihad inspired loser)? Maybe the losses that IS are suffering triggered something earlier, the USA bombed a Syrian airfield, and Trump mentioned Sweden in an earlier tweet/speech after seeing a fake expert report on Foxnewspropaganda. Something idiotic like that?

It can happen anywhere, and I refuse to let that thought change my life.

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 05:53:59 am by BartvanderWolf »
Logged
== If you do what you did, you'll get what you got. ==

James Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2347
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2191 on: April 07, 2017, 05:53:28 pm »

So, something happened in Sweden after all. My condolences to our Swedish friends. The question, though, is: why are they attacking a country that is apparently the most welcoming for refugees and not engaged in any military operations against Muslim countries?

Who knows.  There's no accounting for idiot Jihadists that just want to destroy/kill anything that seems like it is part of the Western world. 
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2192 on: April 07, 2017, 10:02:59 pm »

So, something happened in Sweden after all. My condolences to our Swedish friends. The question, though, is: why are they attacking a country that is apparently the most welcoming for refugees and not engaged in any military operations against Muslim countries?
Trump is a better prognosticator than historian.

Farmer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2848
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2193 on: April 08, 2017, 04:36:43 am »

Good timing those missiles  were while Xi was there with Trump in Mar-a-lago toasting each other..   Now Xi'll have to work harder at getting to stop the N.Koreans nukes afraid that Trump  will handle it on his own like he threatened.   Trump also sent a message to Xi that his militarized islands are vulnerable if he tries to use them against our Pacific friends.

Lol.  NK and China are rather more dangerous than Syria.  Neither will care about a few dozen TLAMs striking a Syrian airfield.  There's also the underlying logistics - the destroyers used for this mission were already close by and can be quickly and easily re-armed without affecting their normal mission (ballistic missile defence of Europe...something you don't want the US to be doing).
Logged
Phil Brown

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4349
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2194 on: April 08, 2017, 09:36:01 am »

Good question. I don't think ISIS has any grand plan as to the time and place of the next attack. It can (and unfortunately will) happen anywhere.
One only need look at the grand sweep of history to see "terrorist" events taking place in virtually any country at almost any time.  The difference today is that the weapons of destruction are much greater.  In the US alone, there have been four Presidential assassinations and numerous attempts.  Lots of mass shootings, bombings and of course 9/11.  Whether what is going on now is "the new normal" is uncertain.  What is certain is that vigilance is job #1 for all governments.
Logged

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2195 on: April 08, 2017, 10:09:00 am »

Lol.  NK and China are rather more dangerous than Syria.  Neither will care about a few dozen TLAMs striking a Syrian airfield.  There's also the underlying logistics - the destroyers used for this mission were already close by and can be quickly and easily re-armed without affecting their normal mission (ballistic missile defence of Europe...something you don't want the US to be doing).
First off, we don't just have two destroyers. We have ships posted around the world.  Second, we would reposition forces including land and air as well as sea, as required.  Thirdly, we'll be able to count on Australia to fight with us.  Won't we?

Alan Klein

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15850
    • Flicker photos
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2196 on: April 08, 2017, 10:15:18 am »

Who knows what goes on in the warped mind of such a brainwashed coward (assuming the perpetrator was an ISIS and Jihad inspired loser)? Maybe the losses that IS are suffering triggered something earlier, the USA bombed a Syrian airfield, and Trump mentioned Sweden in an earlier tweet/speech after seeing a fake expert report on Foxnewspropaganda. Something idiotic like that?

It can happen anywhere, and I refuse to let that thought change my life.

Cheers,
Bart
Yup, Trump's fault.  Damn tweets!

ppmax2

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 92
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2197 on: April 08, 2017, 10:15:41 am »

You may be right.  I seem to be ambivalent about it.  On the one hand, I don't want to be the world's policeman.  We spend too much money and bleed too much.  Meanwhile, other countries who should help ignore it and go their own way worried about themselves or help just enough to say they've done something.  Often, it doesn't seem to get us anywhere except more problems.  But then I see that if we don't do something, no one else will and that encourages bad actors around the world.  Obama's leading from behind and backing off just encouraged Russia in the Crimea and Ukraine and China on those islands in the South China Sea.  Iran gained by his lack of decisiveness and fecklessness.


I really think that Trump sent a message with his unilateral attack on the Syrian airfield.  I don't think his attempt was to depose Assad but did accomplish a lot of other things in one fell swoop.

1.   Satisfies anti-Putin Republicans like McCain and Democrats and limits concern about collusion.
2.   Will help his poll numbers.  Dropping bombs are always more impressive than dropping tweets.  He made his bones.
3.   Encourages allies we’ll support them if needed.
4.   Scares bullies into no longer thinking they can do whatever they want.
5.   Shows Chairman Xi that if he doesn’t help with N. Korean nukes, America will solve the issue on its own as he said he would. That's going to push Xi.
6.   No. Korea has to think that America might act on its own.
7.   Tells Chairman Xi that if China uses the militarized South China Sea islands against our friends, we just might sink the islands.
8.   Encourages our Pacific allies that America will be there for them.  That will stop their current drift to China.
9.   Encourages our Middle East friends like Saudi Arabia, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, etc that they can depend on us.  Some started to look to Russia.  Now they'll re-think that.
10.   Tells everyone America will operate on its own if its interests are threatened.  We don’t necessarily need a coalition and won’t wait for one to act.  That includes the U.N. and their annoying vetoes. 
11.   Willing to change his mind if the situation demands it.  He won’t lock himself into past statements.  Willing to grow and evolve and learn.  The liberal media keeps playing his old policy beliefs when he was a real estate magnate to attack him.  No one else cares?  The rest of the world doesn't, for sure.  They only care and will act on what he'll do now.


That’s a lot of stuff for just a few missiles.

Just think about all the stuff he could do with more!

You raise some interesting points above, and there is no doubt that the use of chemical weapons is appalling. But Trump has no strategy and these things tend to escalate...and does nothing for the ongoing misery of the Syrian people. If Trump was so appalled by the dead babies, why doesn't he let them emigrate to the US? Aren't all Syrians radical muslim terrorists?

I'd love for a Trump supporter to enumerate how America or American interests were threatened by Assad's use of chemical weapons. That's quite a different question vs. enumerating the benefits of a retaliation.

The irony is that some on the far right (and Slobodan?) are turning against him for betraying a(nother) key campaign promise, to stay out of the quagmire of the Middle East. Wanting to stay out of the Middle East is at least a principled strategy, even if American isolationism isn't what the world needs right now.

The sad reality is that this retaliation gives the Trump administration a break from the myriad other self-inflicted shit-storms buffeting them from all other directions...so for a die-hard Trump supporter this was a great week! But that's the problem with lemmings, they'll march right behind Trump as he leads them over a cliff.



Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2198 on: April 08, 2017, 10:19:13 am »

One only need look at the grand sweep of history to see "terrorist" events taking place in virtually any country at almost any time...

For example? Give me an example of a terrorist act that was not connected by at least some logic with what the country was doing at that time?

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: Trump II
« Reply #2199 on: April 08, 2017, 10:38:20 am »

... after seeing a fake expert report on Foxnewspropaganda...

Yes, like the video that started Benghazi ;)
Pages: 1 ... 108 109 [110] 111 112 ... 331   Go Up