Trump II

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...But that wouldn't address the fact that the Trump campaign demanded the removal of certain language supporting Ukrainian fight against Russian aggression. Hum Why?...

Because it makes perfect sense.

As for "two degrees of separation"... when I was working in Russia, I had our company's (American, btw) security chief on speed dial. He happened to be a Secret Service Chief equivalent for Mr. Andropov, the Communist Party Secretary General. Does that make me "one degree" away from the most powerful man in Russia in its time?

[Alan Klein]

So, no direct evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia on fixing the election but there sure is a lot of smoke about Trump/Putin connections...

All of Trump’s Russia Ties, in 7 Charts

I'll let you decide whether to view the charts but it's pretty impressive that there are so many connections. And there's no doubt that it will provide fodder that will plague Trump's admin for a long time. He better hope all of the investigations don't actually find compelling evidence of collusion between Trump and the Russians...pretty sure that would be an impeachable offense :~(

And yes, the charts are on http://www.politico.com and by Alan's perspective #FAKENEWS, but the charts represent verifiable "facts", you know, things that are "real" and not "alternative"?

Edited to remove over large graphic–sorry!

Good clues.  I'm ready to make an accusation.  Mrs. White did it in the Conservatory with the Pipe Wrench. 

[Alan Klein]

What's your point? 

Does the fact that I, someone whom has no political connections, could, in theory, have a very high probability of having only six degrees of separation from Putin prove I am a traitor? 

If you could find 5 other people who connect me to Putin, which is a very real possibility, I would not be surprised by anyone in politics having only two degrees of separation from another political opponent, even in another country. 

Plus I believe it was Obama that said, "the 80s called, they want their foreign policies back" in response to Romney's Russia position in 2012.  Trump has been campaigning on better ties with Russia, just like Obama in 2008 and 2012.  I am not surprise by either one talking with Russia due to try and make this happen and I firm believe that, like Trump said and Obama supported from 2008 to 2013, anyone who does not want better ties with Russia is stupid.   

Show the proof that Trump actually conspired with Putin to rig the election, until then those who claim this is the case are at the same level as conspiracy theorists, because that is all this is right now, a conspiracy theory. 

I feel like I am the dinner table with my father who still insist Lee Harvey Oswald had nothing to do with it and bases his opinions off of the movie JFK. 

I'm pretty suspicious too.  I worked for a company in NYC that did sub-contracting business with Trump.  I'm not going to tell you what he sub-contracted for or I'd have to kill you. 

Dasvidaniya.

[Schewe]

He happened to be a Secret Service Chief equivalent for Mr. Andropov, the Communist Party Secretary General. Does that make me "one degree" away from the most powerful man in Russia in its time?

Yep...but it depends on what you asked your security chief on speed dial to do for you...and if Andropov had him ask you to do things...and if those things were illegal or corrupt or amounted to collusion or espionage.

Changing the GOP platform to make what Putin did a non-issue in the election seems more than just a favor for a friend...and considering the GOP Convention (held July 18–21, 2016) was over just before the DNC WikiLeaks on July 22, 2016 was pretty interesting timing don't ya think?

Bad luck on the part of the DNC or a timely Russian attempt at influencing the election?

[Alan Klein]

What if we find out that Obama illegally wiretapped Trump and recorded a conversation that showed Trump colluding with the Russians to swing the election?

[Alan Klein]

Yep...but it depends on what you asked your security chief on speed dial to do for you...and if Andropov had him ask you to do things...and if those things were illegal or corrupt or amounted to collusion or espionage.

Changing the GOP platform to make what Putin did a non-issue in the election seems more than just a favor for a friend...and considering the GOP Convention (held July 18–21, 2016) was over just before the DNC WikiLeaks on July 22, 2016 was pretty interesting timing don't ya think?

Bad luck on the part of the DNC or a timely Russian attempt at influencing the election?

It could be that once the Russians saw Trump ramp up his honest desire to do business with them, they went to work to hurt Hillary. 

[James Clark]

I am not making that general argument. I am making the argument that the original, medieval interpretation of Islam is STILL uniquely violent. All other religions outgrew their medieval versions hundreds of years ago. Also, because it was repeated so many times as a straw-man argument, let me be clear: I never said all Muslims are violent or medieval. Just that the particular, original, violent interpretation of Islam has reached a critical mass, enough to pose a serious danger world-wide. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of imams engaged in radicalization, tens of thousands armed fighters, hundreds of thousands in the immediate supporting network, and millions of quiet supporters on the sidelines (some of which can't wait to jump into the fray). And that is world-wide. Other religious conflicts are relatively local (like Northern Ireland), or spurred by exceptional circumstances (like wars - e.g. creation of concentration camps for Orthodox Christians, Jews and Gypsies by Catholics in my former home country). No other contemporary religion can claim such organizational and ideological reach (for its medieval version - the Catholic church has both, but has luckily abandoned its violent side). As horrible as lynchings and KKK were, they were relatively local and never reached any ideological or religious mainstream support. One more thing: Islam today is blurring the lines between state and church, religion and ideology. No other contemporary religion can claim that (though I am sure they wouldn't mind, if they could). It was Iran's supreme religious and state ruler that issued fatwa against Salman Rushdie, not some raghead lunatic. It is Saudi Arabia that still today beheads, stones unfaithful women, cuts limbs and publicly lashes. It is SA and Iran that still support terrorist organizations world-wide, more or less overtly (see my previous link about Saudis' link to Kosovo). And spontaneous public lynchings for religious reasons still happen in many Muslim countries today.

Thanks for this - it makes your position much more understandable. 

[Schewe]

What if we find out that Obama illegally wiretapped Trump and recorded a conversation that showed Trump colluding with the Russians to swing the election?

Then I'm moving to Canada...I have friends there :~)

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Just when you thought that microwave ovens are the most dangerous spying devices:

"Standard Innovation reaches $3 million class-action settlement after its vibrators were shown to collect and transmit ‘highly sensitive’ data"

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/14/14920510/sex-toy-vibrator-we-vibe-4-lawsuit-settlement-privacy

 

[32BT]

Just when you thought that microwave ovens are the most dangerous spying devices:

"Standard Innovation reaches $3 million class-action settlement after its vibrators were shown to collect and transmit ‘highly sensitive’ data"

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/14/14920510/sex-toy-vibrator-we-vibe-4-lawsuit-settlement-privacy

 

The Inter-nuts of Tinge

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Trump to roll back use of climate change in policy reviews: source
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-carbon-idUSKBN16L2R4

IOW: let future generations deal with the issues. Trump has put some people in strategical positions (like the EPA) to deny reality and move towards making more money in the short term (and more cost in the future). Typical short term policy changes/actions will cost more over a longer term. And the cost is not only in money, but also in human lives (life expectancy and health issues), and changes in (food) vegetation growth and spreading of insects. Especially inexplicable behavior from (Republican) representatives who claim religious morality, and responsibility for protecting creation.

Scientists to EPA head: You don’t know what you’re talking about
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/scientists-to-epa-head-you-dont-know-what-youre-talking-about/

Cheers,
Bart

[Alan Goldhammer]

False equivalence.

Not really when you look at this historically.  The Crusades are a good example (chased my ancestors out of the Rhineland).  The 30 years way was awful (Christian vs. Christian); CV Wedgewood's good book on this war is informative.

[Alan Goldhammer]

So far there's no proof of collusion but as far as I know, the investigation is ongoing (as in not finished). But we do know that Trump and Russian entanglements are causing Trump a lot of grief...which could be largely mitigated if he released his tax returns (like he said he would at one point in time) proving he doesn't have business ties to Russia...

In a way this is the same game that Trump is playing with his wild accusations and then sending out his minions to demand that something which is untrue be proven untrue.  The tax returns are not likely to be useful as most of the foreign ties (if there are any) are likely being done by interlocking LLCs which would not show up on the personal tax returns.

[Otto Phocus]

IOW: let future generations deal with the issues. Trump has put some people in strategical positions (like the EPA) to deny reality and move towards making more money in the short term (and more cost in the future). Typical short term policy changes/actions will cost more over a longer term. And the cost is not only in money, but also in human lives (life expectancy and health issues). Especially inexplicable behavior from (Republican) representatives who claim religious morality, and responsibility for protecting creation.

When you bring in a business person whose background is focused on profits, as PotUS, this is not surprising. I fear that he is taking Charles Wilson's quote "I thought what was good for our country was good for General Motors, and vice versa" a bit too literally.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

When you bring in a business person whose background is focused on profits, as PotUS, this is not surprising.

Indeed, not surprising if he were to operate in isolation. But what about his entourage? They will be held as accountable (or more because they should know better than Trump) as their formal leader.

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Not really when you look at this historically.  The Crusades are a good example...

If you skew the history by, say, 800 years? That is, compare Christianity from 800 years ago with today's Islam. Then again, not even close:

[Otto Phocus]

Indeed, not surprising if he were to operate in isolation. But what about his entourage? They will be held as accountable (or more because they should know better than Trump) as their formal leader.

Cheers,
Bart

The PotUS has advisers, but as some old dead guy once said "the buck stops here".  I hope that Trump understands this.  Unfortunately, there is no requirement of the PotUS to actually take the advice of his advisers.  The PotUS takes advice and makes the decision.  That's the whole purpose of a president. The final decision and the final responsibility rests with the PotUS.  I fear that Trump likes to make decisions but throws minions under the bus when accountability comes up. 

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

The PotUS has advisers, but as some old dead guy once said "the buck stops here".  I hope that Trump understands this.  Unfortunately, there is no requirement of the PotUS to actually take the advice of his advisers.  The PotUS takes advice and makes the decision.  That's the whole purpose of a president. The final decision and the final responsibility rests with the PotUS.  I fear that Trump likes to make decisions but throws minions under the bus when accountability comes up.

Yes, the PotUS is responsible for his own decisions (as are those who put him in that powerful position). But the government of the USA also consists of the Senate and Congress. They too have a responsibility and will be held accountable. Ignorance is not an excuse, when advisors and scientists can/do educate someone.

Cheers,
Bart

[kers]

If you skew the history by, say, 800 years? That is, compare Christianity from 800 years ago with today's Islam. Then again, not even close:

if we focus on the Spain and Portugal in that time they were under arabic influence.
The muslim society was a relaxt one, were also Christians and jews were accepted.

After that ; the Spanish Inquisition...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

I can also show you a map of the Americas around 1200...

after that - the christians came from the east tot conquer...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

if we focus on the Spain and Portugal in that time they were under arabic influence.
The muslim society was a relaxt one, were also Christians and jews were accepted...

My people should know a thing or two about "relaxed," we were "only" 500 years under Turks. As for "accepted", there were three options: convert, die, or pay tax. The same options ISIS is offering to infidels today. Very relaxed.