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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 1383149 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3400 on: June 09, 2017, 10:45:09 pm »

If the economy isn't important, what is?

"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that we cannot eat money." -- unknown.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3401 on: June 09, 2017, 11:10:39 pm »

"When the last tree has been cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realize that we cannot eat money." -- unknown.
I don't think people want to hurt the environment.  We've cleaned up our waterways an air, not perfect but a lot better than it use to be.  Not to sure about the fishing.  I've stopped by a couple of lakes recently where I live, and I haven't caught a damn thing yet.  Must be the bait I'm using.

But people want a good economy too.   If you're out of work or have a job that's paying less than you use to earn, it's more difficult to feed your family.  Trump appealed to those people and got elected.  It's hard to get votes from these people arguing that their great great great grandchildren will have to contend with ocean levels 8 inches higher than today when everyone today will be long dead.  That's too abstract.  Not urgent enough.   Democrats have to do better than that.

LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3402 on: June 09, 2017, 11:54:43 pm »

I don't think people want to hurt the environment.  We've cleaned up our waterways an air, not perfect but a lot better than it use to be.  Not to sure about the fishing.  I've stopped by a couple of lakes recently where I live, and I haven't caught a damn thing yet.  Must be the bait I'm using.

But people want a good economy too.   If you're out of work or have a job that's paying less than you use to earn, it's more difficult to feed your family.  Trump appealed to those people and got elected.  It's hard to get votes from these people arguing that their great great great grandchildren will have to contend with ocean levels 8 inches higher than today when everyone today will be long dead.  That's too abstract.  Not urgent enough.   Democrats have to do better than that.

Never mind the fish.
A much bigger problem is the declining bee population. When all the bees die, we'll lose flowers, plants and many fruits and vegetables. All we'll have left will be Monsanto corn, heavily fortified with Roundup.
 
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3403 on: June 10, 2017, 12:54:24 am »

Which, I have to add, was meaningless.  I can use Photoshop, too.

Nothing to do with Photoshop. It is Clinton's 1992 campaign catch phrase.

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3404 on: June 10, 2017, 01:12:10 am »

Trump stated he fired Comey because of Russia, that he refused to acknowledge publicly that Trump was not under investigation regarding any collusion.  Just re-read all the posts in this thread by Jeff and others accusing Trump of collusion.

First off, you would do well not to put words in my mouth. I'm pretty darn sure you won't find a post by me accusing Trump of collusion. I'm pretty sure I've been careful of stating facts as I've read and understood them and being incredulous that Trump STILL refuses to accept that Russia meddled on our election with the purpose of helping Trump and hurting Hillary. I speculate that the investigation into the Russian meddling may indeed find some collusion or coordination between members of Trumps campaign and Wikileaks and Russians. I also think it will be tough proving it.

I also think that people who have been involved with Trump and his campaign–his "satellites" as it were have engaged in what are likely to be illegal activities and are likely facing prosecution and possible jail time. That's why Flynn is asking for immunity and why I suspect Paul Manafort is working with the FBI investigations...


As far as why Trump said he fired Comey, uh, well, it seems now you're putting words in Trump's mouth as well. This is what Trump said to Lest Holt about why he fired Comey:

Quote
TRUMP: Look, he's a showboat. He's a grandstander.

The FBI has been in turmoil. You know that, I know that, everybody knows that.

You take a look at the FBI a year ago, it was in virtual turmoil -- less than a year ago. It hasn't recovered from that.


HOLT: Monday you met with the Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein.

TRUMP: Right.

HOLT: Did you ask for a recommendation?

TRUMP: What I did is I was going to fire Comey. My decision. It was not...

HOLT: You had made the decision before they came into your office (ph).

TRUMP: I -- I was going to fire Comey. I -- there's no good time to do it, by the way.

They...


HOLT: Because in your letter, you said...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: They -- they were...

HOLT: ...I -- I accepted -- accepted their recommendations.

TRUMP: Yeah, well, they also...

HOLT: So, you had already made the decision.

TRUMP: Oh, I was going to fire regardless of recommendation.

HOLT: So, there was...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: They -- he made a recommendation. He's highly respected. Very good guy, very smart guy.

And the Democrats like him. The Republicans like him.

He had made a recommendation. But regardless of recommendation, I was going to fire Comey knowing there was no good time to do it

And in fact, when I decided to just do it, I said to myself -- I said, you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should've won.

And the reason they should've won it is the electoral college is almost impossible for a Republican to win. It's very hard because you start off at such a disadvantage. So, everybody was thinking they should've won the election. This was an excuse for having lost an election.


HOLT: But were -- are you angry...

(CROSSTALK)

HOLT: ...angry with Mr. Comey because of his Russia investigation?

TRUMP: I just want somebody that's competent. I am a big fan of the FBI. I love the FBI.

HOLT: But were you a fan of...

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: ...people of the FBI.

HOLT: him taking up that investigation?

TRUMP: I think that -- about the Hillary Clinton investigation?

HOLT: No, about -- about the Russian investigation and possible...

TRUMP: No, I don't care...

HOLT: ...links between...

TRUMP: Look -- look, let me tell you. As far as I'm concerned, I want that thing to be absolutely done properly.

When I did this now, I said I probably maybe will confuse people. Maybe I'll expand that -- you know, I'll lengthen the time because it should be over with. It should -- in my opinion, should've been over with a long time ago because it -- all it is an excuse.

But I said to myself I might even lengthen out the investigation. But I have to do the right thing for the American people.

He's the wrong man for that position.


Huh? So, tell me why Trump fired Comey again? Does what Trump said make any sense?

Now we do have notes of what Trump said to the Russians about firing Comey: “I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job. I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off. I’m not under investigation." Ok, Comey agrees that he's not under investigation for collusion.

What Trump STILL doesn't get is that at least up till now, he, Trump wasn't under investigation but the Trump campaign sure was–since July 2016 and THAT investigation is far from over...and while Trump STILL doesn't believe Russia meddled in our election, the FBI and two congressional committees are investigating Russia's involvement and additionally, whether there was any collusion between the Russians and anybody from the Trump campaign.

So, while Trump himself may not be under investigation, the other investigations are going full speed ahead and now there's a new investigator on the scene by the name of Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Who announced the hiring of top criminal law expert Michael Dreeben (which is really bad news for anybody who has anything to hide).

Top criminal law expert joins special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe

Quote
One of the federal government’s top criminal law specialists is joining the investigation by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III centered on possible coordination between President Trump’s associates and Russian officials.

Justice Department deputy solicitor general Michael Dreeben, who has argued more than 100 cases before the Supreme Court, is the department’s go-to lawyer on criminal justice cases and is highly respected by Democrats and Republicans because of his encyclopedic knowledge of criminal law.

Dreeben will work part time for Mueller, according to Justice officials, while he continues to oversee the department’s criminal appellate cases.

Former and current Justice Department officials say that Mueller’s recruitment of Dreeben shows how serious he is about the investigation and signals complexities in the probe.

“Michael is the most brilliant and most knowledgeable federal criminal lawyer in America — period,” said Walter Dellinger, a law professor at Duke University School of Law and acting solicitor general for the 1996-1997 term of the Supreme Court.

So, there's President Trump who decided to fire Comey because of that Russian stuff and low and behold now the investigation is being done by a special council, the FBI and two intelligence committees in congress.

Naw, I don't think Trump's "Russian Problem" is going away any time soon...sorry Alan :~(
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3405 on: June 10, 2017, 02:04:50 am »

Ooops, with all the Comey drama I missed this one...

Fox News’ Neil Cavuto Calls Out Donald Trump: Stop Scapegoating. You Are The Problem.

Video link to Cavuto's rant

Quote
“Mr. President, it is not the fake news media that’s your problem. It’s you.”

Fox News host Neil Cavuto devoted a segment on his Tuesday show to giving some “common sense” advice to President Donald Trump.

Following days of Twitter outbursts about “fake news” and London Mayor Sadiq Khan’s handling of the weekend’s deadly terrorist attack, Cavuto spoke directly to Trump. “Mr. President, it is not the fake news media that’s your problem. It’s you,” he said.

The host continued to call out the president for “scapegoating,” “feeding [his own] beast,” and “acting beastly with [his] own guys.” Cavuto criticized Trump for alienating members of his own party and creating the very distractions he blames for derailing his presidential agenda. He then urged the president to listen to his once-friendly allies.

“Use these critiques you’re now hearing from usually friendly and supportive allies as sort of like an intervention,” Cavuto suggested. “Because firing off these angry missives and tweets risk your political destruction.”
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Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3406 on: June 10, 2017, 02:19:22 am »

A nice send off for the nite...I heard what Ryan said about Trump. Somehow, not knowing what he's doing isn't really a good answer ya know?

Pleading ignorance

Quote
GOP defends Trump: He just doesn't know what he's doing

Republicans have a novel way of defending the president: Trump just has no idea what he’s doing.

That strategy was on display during and after ex-FBI Director James Comey’s testimony Thursday detailing President Trump’s attempts to influence the FBI’s Russia probe, which included a meeting in the Oval Office where Trump asked everyone else to leave the room before he pressured Comey to drop the investigation into former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn.

The president’s defenders on Capitol Hill chalked it up to the fact that Trump isn’t a politician or a lawyer and has no background in how to interact with law enforcement.

“The president’s new at this,” House Speaker Paul Ryan said at a press conference during the hearing. “He’s new at government.”

Ryan added that Trump wasn’t “steeped in the long-running protocols” of how presidents should interact with the FBI. Presidents are generally advised against talking to the FBI about pending investigations — especially ones that involve former members of their administration — in order to avoid even the appearance of obstructing justice.

Ya know, learning on the job isn't a great idea when you have somebody in office that has zero experience doing anything other that real estate and playing golf. He hasn't done well when he's stepped out of his wheel house.

Think Atlantic City and his casino–I mean, how can you go bankrupt running a casino? I think his presidency will end in a similar manner–disaster.
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3407 on: June 10, 2017, 05:19:34 am »

Trump stated he fired Comey because of Russia, that he refused to acknowledge publicly that Trump was not under investigation regarding any collusion. 
Yes, this was one of the reasons he communicated, but he also stated he fired Comey because he mishandles the Clinton investigation and a bunch of other unrelated reasons. That was my point, among these reasons there's bound to be several things that were not true.

I don't disagree with the other points you made, better relations between the US and Russia would be beneficial, primarily in the Middle East but also for Europe. As for Comey not publicly saying Trump was personally not under investigation I read from his statement that he referred this to the justice department and that he told Trump he did so. I think there's a difference between communicating an investigation is closed (the Clinton server investigation) and saying a specific person is not under investigation in an ongoing investigation in which several of his close relations still are under active investigation. So I can see why Comey handled it the way he did.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3408 on: June 10, 2017, 06:14:45 am »

Nothing to do with Photoshop. It is Clinton's 1992 campaign catch phrase.

Which seems like a bit of a distortion of the truth to me. It was intended for an internal audience of campaign workers, and was one of the three main subjects to focus the campaign workers on. The fact that the Bush campaign for some reason apparently happened to ignore the economy in their messages was a lucky coincidence for the Clinton campaign.

By the way, I'm not sure if Clinton ever said those exact words during a speech, as the doctored image suggests.

Cheers,
Bart
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LesPalenik

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3409 on: June 10, 2017, 06:53:26 am »

Which seems like a bit of a distortion of the truth to me. It was intended for an internal audience of campaign workers, and was one of the three main subjects to focus the campaign workers on. The fact that the Bush campaign for some reason apparently happened to ignore the economy in their messages was a lucky coincidence for the Clinton campaign.

By the way, I'm not sure if Clinton ever said those exact words during a speech, as the doctored image suggests.

Cheers,
Bart

Oh yeah, these were the exact words by Clinton. And they were repeated thousand times by the press.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3410 on: June 10, 2017, 08:01:14 am »

Oh yeah, these were the exact words by Clinton. And they were repeated thousand times by the press.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid

I'm not sure if one can blame Clinton for the media making a big deal out of one of the campaign workers focus points, that was repeatedly stressed by James Carville, an aide to candidate Bill Clinton. I've searched and found little evidence of Clinton himself saying those words over and over again, as the doctored image suggests (by using a speech balloon instead of a title).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ffbFvKlWqE

But anyway, this is all meant as a distraction from the thread's topic, unless we're talking about laying the blame at others for the deeds one does oneself. Blaming others seems to be the Trump mantra, even contradicting or blaming his staff and other workers.

Saudi and Bahrain welcome Trump's scolding of Qatar
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-idUSKBN1910B6

"Saudi Arabia and Bahrain welcomed on Saturday U.S. President Donald Trump's demand for Qatar to stop supporting terrorism, but did not respond to a U.S. Department of State call for them to ease pressure on the Gulf state."

Yes, the Arabs are playing Trump, and now Tillerson has to do the damage control:

"A separate SPA report on Saturday acknowledged Tillerson's call for Qatar to curtail support for terrorism, but did not mention his remarks that the crisis was hurting ordinary Qataris, impairing business dealings and harming the U.S. fight against the Islamic State militant group."

Trump scolds Qatar as Tillerson seeks to ease crisis
Trump scolds Qatar as Tillerson seeks to ease crisis

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3411 on: June 10, 2017, 09:00:33 am »

If Comey publicly said months ago what he said in Congress two days ago, that Trump was not under investigation for collusion, he'd still be Director.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3412 on: June 10, 2017, 09:25:22 am »

...By the way, I'm not sure if Clinton ever said those exact words during a speech, as the doctored image suggests.

Does it come as a surprise that anti-Trumpers, otherwise known to appear reasonably intelligent prior to his election, now take everything literally?

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3413 on: June 10, 2017, 10:01:39 am »

Does it come as a surprise that anti-Trumpers, otherwise known to appear reasonably intelligent prior to his election, now take everything literally?

Since when did innuendo and fake news become the norm?

Cheers,
Bart
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3414 on: June 10, 2017, 10:28:35 am »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid

I'm not sure if one can blame Clinton for the media making a big deal out of one of the campaign workers focus points, that was repeatedly stressed by James Carville, an aide to candidate Bill Clinton. I've searched and found little evidence of Clinton himself saying those words over and over again, as the doctored image suggests (by using a speech balloon instead of a title).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ffbFvKlWqE

But anyway, this is all meant as a distraction from the thread's topic, unless we're talking about laying the blame at others for the deeds one does oneself. Blaming others seems to be the Trump mantra, even contradicting or blaming his staff and other workers.

Saudi and Bahrain welcome Trump's scolding of Qatar
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-gulf-qatar-idUSKBN1910B6

"Saudi Arabia and Bahrain welcomed on Saturday U.S. President Donald Trump's demand for Qatar to stop supporting terrorism, but did not respond to a U.S. Department of State call for them to ease pressure on the Gulf state."

Yes, the Arabs are playing Trump, and now Tillerson has to do the damage control:

"A separate SPA report on Saturday acknowledged Tillerson's call for Qatar to curtail support for terrorism, but did not mention his remarks that the crisis was hurting ordinary Qataris, impairing business dealings and harming the U.S. fight against the Islamic State militant group."

Trump scolds Qatar as Tillerson seeks to ease crisis
Trump scolds Qatar as Tillerson seeks to ease crisis

Cheers,
Bart
He's playing "good cop, bad cop".  It Trump's modus operandi. (M.O.)  NATO, Taiwan, Qatar.  He does it all the time.  The Qataris, who are losing billions,  will be begging Tillerson to help them with his boss, only to happy to comply.  "Well," says Tillerson to his distraught Qataris.  "I think I can get the President to back off and make things good again with the Saudis and you and us.  But you really got to stop helping the terrorists and others who want to hurt us.  Should I tell the President you're in his corner?"

Look it up.  http://www.macmillandictionary.com/us/dictionary/american/play-good-cop-bad-cop

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3415 on: June 10, 2017, 10:30:13 am »

Oh, if it's not clear.  Trump is the bad cop and Tillerson is the good cop. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3416 on: June 10, 2017, 10:46:11 am »

The problem with anti-Trump people is that they have so much invested in their beliefs, that they can't see Trump's strategies.  They're looking to see the worse out of him so they can denigrate him.  The message Trump is sending to the Qataris (and by extension all other countries who think they can support those who are America's enemies), isn't even chess.  It's checkers.  Yet, anti-Trumpers miss the simplicity in his strategies.  You think Trump is stupid, but he's way over your heads.  Trust me.  The Qataris and the rest of the world, especially those supporting terrorists,  get it even if you don't. 

Schewe

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3417 on: June 10, 2017, 11:23:53 am »

You think Trump is stupid, but he's way over your heads.  Trust me.  The Qataris and the rest of the world, especially those supporting terrorists,  get it even if you don't.

It is my experience tells me when somebody says "trust me", that is the exact thing not to do. Based on the fact that Trump seems unable to form coherent sentances and string them into meaningful thoughts without reading from a teleprompter, I admit to believing Trump is  dim bulb that doesn't have a clue how to govern and that is baced up by the leaders of the GOP saying Trump is new at this being a political operative. Wow when your friends admit you don't know what you are doing, that's not a ringing endorsement...

"Trust me" on that...

:-)
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3418 on: June 10, 2017, 11:28:40 am »

If the economy isn't important, what is?

Please stop twisting my (and others') words. I did not say that the economy isn't important.
My dispute was with your original statement which was "Because that's more important than anything else"
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #3419 on: June 10, 2017, 11:35:43 am »

Please stop twisting my (and others') words. I did not say that the economy isn't important.
My dispute was with your original statement which was "Because that's more important than anything else"
To the voters it was, especially in states that have been under economic pressure and a dearth in jobs.  If Trump makes good on his promises about the economy, the republican will do OK in 2018 and Trump will be re-elected in 2020. 
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