Phase One IQ3 100mp. Shipping now.

[Joe Towner]

It looks like our first units will arrive either tomorrow or Wednesday depending on customs.

Um, if you need someone to fly back and forth with units, I'm game.  It seems extremely wrong that these amazing sensors go back and forth via common carrier.

[Miyata610]

Well done Phase One (and Sony) for taking the next step.

I don't get the problem with $44K for a DB.  After a couple of years it has enough residual value to make the next step up affordable.

I spend more money on a work vehicle.

Why would anyone want the technology to stop moving forward? 

Just buy/rent/lease whatever gear works for you and let others do the same.

[jduncan]

In any business, it's important to perceive the totality of a market, not just to see it through the filter of one's own needs, abilities and experience.

Michael

This is the best explanation of this concept, that tend to elude technical oriented minds.  Many times I have say to my CS peers that if physicians were like CS they will insist in giving the patient the medicine the Md needs and not the one the sick one requieres.  Many people have different desires and needs, and it has been a long time since most of the cameras went to professionals. It's could be that this is not the case yet in MF but if we want MF to survive they need the wealthy amateur market. The investment is simply to high.

Best regards,

[eronald]

I think Phase are very smart marketers. Make a Ferrari with world beating specs, and every institution has to get at least  one, and then a roomful or else ... In fact the price doesnt matter.

And as for individual sales, a guy with $500K in assets can afford the Sony as a hobby buy. Why should a hobbyist with more than $5M in assets care about spending the measly $50K of the Phase when that gets him THE BEST? The only customers who are going to think hard about the cost are pro photographers with their own business, and frankly 1) the price is perfectly defendable as a 2-year write-off if you really need the MP, and 2) nobody in his right mind would make a business selling expensive gear only to money-bound pro photographers these days when any genuinely affluent person can just write a check out of petty cash.

I admire Phase, I really do, they are the only ones in the camera industry who understand the post-recession economics. They are going to sell as many of these as Sony can make sensors.

Phase could give the french lessons in luxury marketing.

Edmund

Cultural Heritage Imaging (the broader category under which art reproduction falls) is one of the core markets for which Phase One makes solutions. It has a dedicated version of Capture One for just this market (Capture One CH) with powerful tools and bespoke ICC profiles meticulously created and tested for pure color accuracy for a variety of supported lighting sources, including the new DT Photon Preservation LED Lighting which has a CRI of 98 and more importantly a CQS of 98 and strong spectral flatness.

I'm glad to help anyone make a comparison in quality for art reproduction of our system versus literally any other made. Just shoot me an email to arrange it.

Here is a partial list of US clients using Phase One for Art Reproduction and other Cultural Heritage imaging:
Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences
American Museum of Natural History
Amon Carter Museum of American Art
Ancestry.com
Backstage Library Works
The Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum
Brown University
Center For Creative Photography at The University of Arizona       
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Columbia University
Dallas Museum of Art
Dartmouth
Denver Art Museum
Denver Public Library
Drexel University
Duke University
Florida State University
Folger Shakespeare Library
The Franklin Mint
The Frick Collection
Google
Harvard College Library
Harvard University
Harvard University Graduate School of Design
Houston Public Library
Indiana University
Indianapolis Museum of Art
The J. Paul Getty Museum
Library of Congress
The Mariners’ Museum
Minneapolis Institute of Arts
The Morgan Library & Museum
The Museum of Fine Arts, Houston
The Museum of Modern Art
National Gallery of Art
The New York Botanical Garden
New York Public Library
New York University
The Ohio State University
Princeton University Library
Public Design Commission of the City of New York
Smithsonian Institution
Stanford University
Sterling and Francine Clark Art Institute
The University of Alabama
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
The University of Kansas
University of Michigan
University of Minnesota
The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
The University of Pennsylvania (UPENN)
University of Virginia
Walt Disney Studios-Burbank
Yale University

FADGI Image Quality Analysis showing the four-star (highest possible) quality on an objective test:
FADGI Preservation Grade Imaging - Phase One

[jng]

I think Doug was referring to Hassy V mount lenses, not H mount, and indeed some of the old analog lenses are quite soft. If you shoot for look-and-feel rather than resolving power alone the V mount lenses can do fine results. I'd love to see a CFV back with this new sensor, but I'm not sure it will happen. At some point Hassy will have to end their V support...

Time will tell what Hasselblad has up its sleeve, but whatever the case I wouldn't discount the image quality that some of the V series lenses can deliver. Most are pretty fine and chosen carefully some - in particular the 40mm IF CFE, 100mm, 120mm Makro-Planar, and 180mm - are in fact superb, at least on my 60 Mp back. Having a full format CMOS sensor is a game-changer provided one has the glass that will cover it. Yes, resolution is important but there's more to capturing great images than just resolution and perhaps we've reached the point of diminishing returns in that department (not to say that having more data isn't better). I should also note that some of my favorite images - i.e., ones that hang on my wall as large prints - were made with lenses that aren't considered to be the "best" in terms of resolution. As the saying goes, f/8 (or maybe f/5.6 with those tiny 4.5 micron pixels) and be there!

- John

[ErikKaffehr]

Why would he refer to V-glass, it is not any longer made? If there is a market for a V-back, I am sure Hasselblad will make it. It is not about supporting the V-system, but simply common sense.

I checked out a little bit, Hasselblad has very good and readable MTF data for their H-lenses, like they had for the Zeiss lenses. They seem pretty good. Of course there are sample variations and bad samples.

Just to mention, I checked resolution on my Planar 100/3.5 on film (ADOX) and it was in excess of 200 lp/mm, but probably at very low contrast. Not that it is that impressive, Erwin Putt measured a bunch of 50 mm lenses some years ago and all had around 200 lp/mm but just a few % MTF. But H-lenses are generally better.

Best regards
Erik

I believe Doug was referring to the V glass, not to the H glass...  The H glass is excellent.

And Hasselblad is still selling the 200MP MS back:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1078381-REG/hasselblad_3013708_h5d_200c_ms_digital_camera.html

For about the same price you actually get twice as many MP...

Congratulations to Phase One for once more delivering ahead of the competition!

[jng]

Just to mention, I checked resolution on my Planar 100/3.5 on film (ADOX) and it was in excess of 200 lp/mm, but probably at very low contrast. Not that it is that impressive, Erwin Putt measured a bunch of 50 mm lenses some years ago and all had around 200 lp/mm but just a few % MTF. But H-lenses are generally better.

Thanks for sharing the results of your tests of the 100/3.5. 200 lp/mm on a 40 x 54mm sensor (or film) leaves little to complain about and certainly beats the pants off similarly resolving lenses on the 24 x 36mm format. Size matters!

At the risk of straying too much further off-topic (at least until Hasselblad jumps into the 100 Mp CMOS market), Hasselblad published an article/propaganda piece back in 2009 comparing the HC 100/2.2 and HC 210/4 with the older V-series 100mm/3.5 and 250mm/5.6 SA (http://static.hasselblad.com/2015/02/the_evolution_of_lenses.pdf). The two older lenses appear to hold their own against the HC series. And I've read (but not seen the actual data) that the 40mm IF is the sharpest of the V series bunch.

- John

[wnichols]

I guess we can expect a more reasonably priced update from Hassy soon, and a $12K announcement from Pentax at Photokina. My pro dealer tells me the 645Z has been selling well, and so Pentax will probably want to catch the new train leaving the station.

Edmund

The limitation of the focal plane on the 645Z makes it a non-starter for many including myself...

[EricWHiss]

Let's see - here was my basic wish list for backs:

Live view? - check
High Iso? - check
Improved DR? - check
IBIS?     Nope
6x6?     Nope
Video?    hmmm

Several people at Team Phase One have told me quite clearly there will never be a 6x6 back so I guess I will have to rely on others to do that, or to do it myself

But the IBIS? Maybe Phase left the IBIS on the drawing table to leave something to upgrade for in 2 years? 

[Franzl]

I downloaded one of the (iso 50) Raw files from the IQ3 100mp and wow. About as perfect and clean a file as I have seen. It is of an outdoor town scene in bad light. Dynamic Range (shadow recovery) is stunning. I removed all of the (lens, noise, you name it, everything off or at zero) corrections and just boosted up exposure and looked at the darker areas and detail just keeps showing up, clean. Color looks really nice, comparable to what I have seen from the 50MP Sony sensor but even smoother and cleaner. Stunning.

Looking forward to seeing more images made using this back.

All that rubbish and complaining about whether anyone can afford it, need it, want it, whether Phase is gonna survive, whether dealers and the marketing dpt. use cheap sales techniques, whether you can achieve the same using much cheaper gear, etc. etc. just have nothing to do with how this back performs. That is just background noise. The back is amazing. The whole IQ series from the start has been impressive. (I own one, IQ160, and although it was expensive I never regretted buying it, still performs great).

Choosing gear is a very personal process and honestly it is getting tiring reading through all the complaints, rants and rubbish and technical stuff instead of more about how the gear works during photography which is the main purpose of such things. If you find serious faults using the gear in the discussion fine, post them in context of the photography but man, some threads in this forum are getting ridiculous. Just helps to drive away the photographers and technicians who actual deal with Medium Format Digital gear.

Word up in so many ways.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I presume that you mean focal plane shutter?

It is quite OK that it is a non starter for many, including your self, but it doesn't mean it would not be a great camera for those who can live without a leaf shutter.

That said, FP-shutter cause vibration, the effect is minor compared to the mirror flap of an SLR. An electronic first shutter curtain, that the new back has, can eliminate a large part of the vibration caused by FP shutter.

Foremost, I see the new back as a great advantage for technical camera shooters, as the back can be used as a viewfinder and also for accurate focusing. Technical cameras usually have leaf shutters, albeit some have focal plane shutters, like ALPA FPS.

Best regards
Erik

The limitation of the focal plane on the 645Z makes it a non-starter for many including myself...

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

I downloaded one of the (iso 50) Raw files from the IQ3 100mp and wow. About as perfect and clean a file as I have seen. It is of an outdoor town scene in bad light. Dynamic Range (shadow recovery) is stunning. I removed all of the (lens, noise, you name it, everything off or at zero) corrections and just boosted up exposure and looked at the darker areas and detail just keeps showing up, clean. Color looks really nice, comparable to what I have seen from the 50MP Sony sensor but even smoother and cleaner. Stunning.

Yes, I agree with Ken. The image looks very nice. I could be satisfied with such a quality, with little extra (multi-shot would be nice) to wish for. It will be interesting to see how the images that are taken with shifts will hold up, although perspective correction in software is becoming a feasible alternative (depending on required output size).

By doing it in postprocessing, one can shoot with the higher quality center of the lens' image circle, and have less Color Cast and cross-talk to worry about. It is also much easier to get perfect leveling in software, than it is on tripod. Even with a geared head and a high accuracy digital level, there may be a bit of residual rotation due to tolerances in mounting the sensor in the back.

Cheers,
Bart

[gebseng]

But the IBIS? Maybe Phase left the IBIS on the drawing table to leave something to upgrade for in 2 years? 

My guess is that IBIS is very hard to do with the mass of such a large sensor and the inherent inertia. We already see that Olympus is a bit more successful with their IBIs implementation using a tiny m43 sensor than Sony is with their FF sensor on the A7 series. Another problem might be cooling.

[gebseng]

I'm sorry if I missed somthing in this 11 pages and counting thread, but does anybody know what P1 means with "exceptional wide angular response" in their IQ3 100mp press release? (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0998933437/phase-one-launches-100mp-medium-format-camera-co-developed-with-sony)

best,

geb

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I checked a bit on the image, in C9. Pushing 3.08 EV, with sharpening and noise reduction set to zero, I see some colour blotching in grey areas I would that I would not expect. So I checked in  RawDigger and saw that the image is exposed pretty ETTR, with clouds close to clipping.

What I noticed in raw digger is that the file is 16 bits, but only contains 14-bit data. So the image is a 14 bit file.

Saying that, I think the file is pretty good. Realistically it should deliver data at the same level as the A7rII when pixel peeping. I don't know if it does that as I don't have comparable shoots.

Down sampling to A7rII size (to 40%) would of course improve things quite a bit.

Best regards
Erik

Yes, I agree with Ken. The image looks very nice. I could be satisfied with such a quality, with little extra (multi-shot would be nice) to wish for. It will be interesting to see how the images that are taken with shifts will hold up, although perspective correction in software is becoming a feasible alternative (depending on required output size).

By doing it in postprocessing, one can shoot with the higher quality center of the lens' image circle, and have less Color Cast and cross-talk to worry about. It is also much easier to get perfect leveling in software, than it is on tripod. Even with a geared head and a high accuracy digital level, there may be a bit of residual rotation due to tolerances in mounting the sensor in the back.

Cheers,
Bart

[torger]

I'm sorry if I missed somthing in this 11 pages and counting thread, but does anybody know what P1 means with "exceptional wide angular response" in their IQ3 100mp press release? (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0998933437/phase-one-launches-100mp-medium-format-camera-co-developed-with-sony)

It does sound promising, but it may not necessarily mean much. Wide angular response is a term sensor manufacturers use about how low an angle a sensor can take before crosstalk happens. So there's some action taken in that regard, but they don't compare to anything so we don't know what it means. This could be a BSI sensor afterall although my inital guess is that it's not. They could simply refer to offset microlenses too.

One should know that modern image sensors usually have rather poor angular response and the old CCDs had better angular response than any recent sensor. So if you compare to the typical CMOS you can make a "big" improvement and still be much worse than an old Kodak CCD.

We really need to see those tests which Doug's is making for us as soon as he gets the back

Although I dream of a CMOS that can do the SK28XL without issues, if this just reaches Dalsa 6um class on the angular response it's hugely great news. If on the other hand the sensor makes the Rodenstock wides obsolete it's pretty bad news, so the wait for those tests is really tough

This back is too expensive for my small production, but if it's new sensor tech it will likely appear in a 44x33mm version and in other cheaper brands so I'm extremely curious how this one performs.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Doug's Library shots were very good tests, but I would expect Alpa to run some tests also.

But as the germans say: "Ich kann nicht die nötige Kleingeld sammeln", so I only have an outside interest.

Best regards
Erik

It does sound promising, but it may not necessarily mean much. Wide angular response is a term sensor manufacturers use about how low an angle a sensor can take before crosstalk happens. So there's some action taken in that regard, but they don't compare to anything so we don't know what it means. This could be a BSI sensor afterall although my inital guess is that it's not. They could simply refer to offset microlenses too.

One should know that modern image sensors usually have rather poor angular response and the old CCDs had better angular response than any recent sensor. So if you compare to the typical CMOS you can make a "big" improvement and still be much worse than an old Kodak CCD.

We really need to see those tests which Doug's is making for us as soon as he gets the back

Although I dream of a CMOS that can do the SK28XL without issues, if this just reaches Dalsa 6um class on the angular response it's hugely great news. If on the other hand the sensor makes the Rodenstock wides obsolete it's pretty bad news, so the wait for those tests is really tough

[voidshatter]

What I noticed in raw digger is that the file is 16 bits, but only contains 14-bit data. So the image is a 14 bit file.

Yes you are right, it's still the 14-bit up-sampled to 16-bit. Even if you use Capture One to convert it into dng first you still see that gaps.

[torger]

They seem to have introduced a new 16 bit file format, but you need to set the camera to shoot that format to get it. I assume the test images are the old 14-bit-upsampled-to-16-bit format.

[Theodoros]

.......I could be satisfied with such a quality, with little extra (multi-shot would be nice) to wish for.......

If Hasselblad will be using the the same sensor, they will most certainly offer a multishot version of it... Other than that, my wishes would extend to a back that would (additionally to multishot) feature the following:

-Four pixel binning for 25mp output ability...
-Interchangeable adapting plates so that one can shim it himself properly and use it on whatever camera he wishes to...
-Raw video recording to an external recorder...

That would make MY dream back.... a real "tool"!

That said, it's not only Hasselblad that can make such a back... Sinar is another player in the game that people don't mention and Leica seems to be working very hard as to catch up in pro video technology... OTOH, if a Sinarback with the above wish list is ever to be introduced, it most probably would have an exclusive to them sensor... Can't help to think that an upsized to (MF) FF Leica S-007 sensor would be of 60mp, which IMO would make it even more attractive...