Paris attacks

[amolitor]

I didn't even read the content, just skimmed the page to see that is HAD content AND citations for it I got no dog in this fight. I'm just here to help!

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I'm just here to help!

Appreciated.
 
I think the disconnect between numbers (if any) might come from the fact that it is not just Syrians that are refugees. And not just those fleeing wars, like from Afghanistan and Iraq, but also a large number of economic migration from Africa and other countries, e.g. Albania. I just read the news that Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia, and Slovenia are blocking economic migration as of today, allowing only passport holders from the first three aforementioned countries.

[mbaginy]

... it seems that the numbers are becoming obsolete equally rapidly.

They're coming obsolete very rapidly!  In a TV report from last night I heard of 3 Million refugees in Turkey and approximately 830,000 in Germany.  Naturally these masses are not only fleeing Syria, but various countries and for different reasons.  Reminds me of the secure life I live, despite my (petty?) problems.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

They're coming obsolete very rapidly!  In a TV report from last night I heard of 3 Million refugees in Turkey and approximately 830,000 in Germany.

Those German numbers are the expected numbers arriving per year, it doesn't stop there, and it has not just started. And that is also before families are reunited, these are often individuals who may be allowed to to bring their families if they are nationalized, instead of getting a 'temporary' refugee status. This obviously cannot continue a this (accelerating) pace.

Naturally these masses are not only fleeing Syria, but various countries and for different reasons.  Reminds me of the secure life I live, despite my (petty?) problems.

Indeed.

Cheers,
Bart

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Here in Sweden we had 2100 imigrants arriving each day. After introducing border controls it is 1500/day. We are just a minor country with 9 million inhabitants.

Obviously, this cannot go on and other solutions must be found.

We must also find ways to make those who are allowed to stay a part of our society, not an easy task.

Best regards
Erik

Those German numbers are the expected numbers arriving per year, it doesn't stop there, and it has not just started. And that is also before families are reunited, these are often individuals who may be allowed to to bring their families if they are nationalized, instead of getting a 'temporary' refugee status. This obviously cannot continue a this (accelerating) pace.

Indeed.

Cheers,
Bart

[mbaginy]

Those German numbers are the expected numbers arriving per year, it doesn't stop there, and it has not just started.

As I understood the report, that was the refugee count as of mid November 2015 in Germany.  Expected now, are over one million.  Oddly enough, the exact number of individuals already registered is unknown (or so we are told).

[Rajan Parrikar]

Hi,

Here in Sweden we had 2100 imigrants arriving each day. After introducing border controls it is 1500/day. We are just a minor country with 9 million inhabitants.

Obviously, this cannot go on and other solutions must be found.

The solution has always been around but European elites pretend it doesn't exist. Enforce the border, and stop admitting Third World populations, especially from Islamic countries. If you can't do this, lie down and accept more of what's coming.

We must also find ways to make those who are allowed to stay a part of our society, not an easy task.

I see. It isn't enough to give them lifelong welfare benefits. The West must also potty train them.

[Justinr]

The solution has always been aroubd but European elites pretend it doesn't exist. Enforce the border, and stop admitting Third World populations, especially from Islamic countries. If you can't do this, lie down and accept more of what's coming.


I see. It isn't enough to give them lifelong welfare benefits. The West must also potty train them.

There are always answers that are easier to envision than implement. 

[Otto Phocus]

Is being a refugee always considered a one-way ticket?

Or once an area is no longer a threat, will the refugees be sent back to their homeland?  Of course the problem would be determining when an area is no longer a threat, but that's another problem.

I fear it is the former and that refugee is synonymous of permanent immigrant and I am not sure that is really the right way to consider refugees.

To me there is a big difference between providing temporary help to people in need and just moving a group of people to the head of the immigration line. 

[AlterEgo]

Is being a refugee always considered a one-way ticket?

Or once an area is no longer a threat, will the refugees be sent back to their homeland?  Of course the problem would be determining when an area is no longer a threat, but that's another problem.

I fear it is the former and that refugee is synonymous of permanent immigrant and I am not sure that is really the right way to consider refugees.

To me there is a big difference between providing temporary help to people in need and just moving a group of people to the head of the immigration line.

look @ Australia - they simply put refugees in camps outside of the country.

[Jim Pascoe]

The solution has always been around but European elites pretend it doesn't exist. Enforce the border, and stop admitting Third World populations, especially from Islamic countries. If you can't do this, lie down and accept more of what's coming.


I see. It isn't enough to give them lifelong welfare benefits. The West must also potty train them.

Do refugees spend a lifetime on benefits? Try telling that to the thousands of refugees who came into Britain in the 1930's and 40's.  I think they became integrated and worked hard.  I'm sure the most of the refugees want safety and normality - not to sit around living off state benefits.

Jim

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

..I'm sure the most of the refugees want safety and normality - not to sit around living off state benefits.

As a matter of fact, that is exactly what was happening with certain nationalities from my former country, faking political asylum in Europe. You know, the ones who prefer their children in bulk, closer to a dozen than not. Multiply child benefits x dozen, ad housing subsidies and other benefits, and you can indeed live a life doing nothing. Well, not exactly nothing. There is plenty of spare time for engaging in drug trafficking, sex trade, and other endeavours.

If all they need is safety and normality, they could have stayed in the first peaceful country they enter. Instead, they are rushing all the way through to reach the final destination: countries with the most generous benefits. Why are they, for instance, refusing to stay in France, but are pushing (rioting) to get into Britain instead?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Enforcing borders are not that easy. Lot of countries in southern Europe are building barbed wire fences along borders to keep illegal immigrants out.

Regarding integration, no country can afford to pay a lot of benefits to a lot of people. If you can get the immigrants into work they will contribute to GNP and pay taxes. So that is a win/win situation for all.

Another side is that if we cannot give those people a decent living and let them be isolated it will just grow extremism, hatred and so on. We have something like 300 (or so) individuals who went to fight for ISIS.  That is a small part of the moslem population here, which is around 500 kpersons, I would think, but scary enough.

Best regards
Erik

The solution has always been around but European elites pretend it doesn't exist. Enforce the border, and stop admitting Third World populations, especially from Islamic countries. If you can't do this, lie down and accept more of what's coming.


I see. It isn't enough to give them lifelong welfare benefits. The West must also potty train them.

[Justinr]

As a matter of fact, that is exactly what was happening with certain nationalities from my former country, faking political asylum in Europe. You know, the ones who prefer their children in bulk, closer to a dozen than not. Multiply child benefits x dozen, ad housing subsidies and other benefits, and you can indeed live a life doing nothing. Well, not exactly nothing. There is plenty of spare time for engaging in drug trafficking, sex trade, and other endeavours.

If all they need is safety and normality, they could have stayed in the first peaceful country they enter. Instead, they are rushing all the way through to reach the final destination: countries with the most generous benefits. Why are they, for instance, refusing to stay in France, but are pushing (rioting) to get into Britain instead?

Lord knows, I got out!

I'm not sure that the UK does have a more generous welfare system nowadays TBH, but these things are always difficult to compare.

[Torbjörn Tapani]

The solution has always been around but European elites pretend it doesn't exist. Enforce the border, and stop admitting Third World populations, especially from Islamic countries. If you can't do this, lie down and accept more of what's coming.


I see. It isn't enough to give them lifelong welfare benefits. The West must also potty train them.

Enforcing borders is easy. That does not solve the problem with refugees. You have to solve the problems in the countries of origin. The most acute problem right now is getting rid of Assad, then IS, then some solution in Afghanistan. That would decrease the number of immigrants to Sweden by 4/5 or so.

[Alan Klein]

Maybe male refugees should be trained to fight and sent back to reclaim their land from the terrorists? 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Maybe male refugees should be trained to fight and sent back to reclaim their land from the terrorists? 

About that:

MSNBC’s Chris Matthews ended his show Tuesday night with two numbers — the number of Syrians the U.S. has recruited to help fight against the Islamic State and the number of total Syrian refugees.

“Let me finish tonight with two numbers that don’t make sense,” Matthews said on his show before starkly contrasting the number of Syrian refugees — 4 million — and the number of Syrians recruited by the U.S. to fight the Islamic State — four. “Is there just one in a million Syrians willing to fight for Syria? Is that the deal? Is it?” Matthews asked.

Source here.

Also, worth noting is the contrast between a historical (up until the current crisis) perception of refugees as mostly women, children and elderly, the contemporary image is about 80% of military age single males (which, coincidentally or not, happens to be the prime demographics for terrorists). Then again, maybe they are ready to fight, just not against who we think they should.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... If you can get the immigrants into work...

As if Europe doesn't already have a very high unemployment, especially among the youth.

[AlterEgo]

Maybe male refugees should be trained to fight and sent back to reclaim their land from the terrorists?

you miss the point that who can and will already does fight for Assad, for US/NATO/Sunni backed terrorists or for IS(IL).

[Alan Klein]

They aren't fighting.   Take a look at the news.   You'll see so many are just young males.  If they don't want to fight for their land,  why should we?   Of course,  it may reach the point that we have to go over their to protect ourselves.   But then,  add conquerors,  we'll have a right to decide who runs it.   Then all those young males will stay in their adopted countries,  many sponging of the native people starting their
own  terror activities to the increduality of their hosts.