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Author Topic: The Future of Lightroom  (Read 48056 times)

luxborealis

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #100 on: November 09, 2015, 10:40:39 pm »

That's part of the problem with Lr ... If Adobe offered ALL the modules in Lr with full functionality and creative potential that they offer with the Print module, Lr would be a much better product.

Agreed. But what LR does do well - cataloging, processing (developing) and printing - can't all be replicated with any other app as seamlessly.
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James R

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #101 on: November 09, 2015, 10:53:58 pm »

That's part of the problem with Lr ... If Adobe offered ALL the modules in Lr with full functionality and creative potential that they offer with the Print module, Lr would be a much better product.

I'm sure there would still be bitching if your wish list were implemented.  There is no perfect camera and no perfect raw converted/dam.  We want software programs to adapt to our needs, but this usually is at the expense of the desires of others or developmental expense.
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ButchM

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #102 on: November 09, 2015, 11:16:37 pm »

I'm sure there would still be bitching if your wish list were implemented.  There is no perfect camera and no perfect raw converted/dam.  We want software programs to adapt to our needs, but this usually is at the expense of the desires of others or developmental expense.

No bitching ... simply a statement of fact. Not all the modules in Lr receive the same level of attention to detail and open functionality that others have had from the very beginning. It's as though there is a split personality at play in the planning for future development.

Of course i don't actually expect pure perfection. If I did ... and my concerns actually had any possible influence ... Lr would be a much different tool ...  ::)

What is baffling is how certain modules have been developed and/or implemented that I am disappointed with. Why some modules receive a much deeper level of refinement and others are included almost as an afterthought.

Would you find the Library beneficial if it only read .CR2 files and not .NEF files?

What if the Print module would only communicate with Epson printers and not HP or Canon?

I don't expect modules like Books or Slideshow to be perfect ... but it would be so much more useful if users could easily print a book with other vendors besides Blurb ... or build a slideshow that could use more than one 'sealed-in-the-can' dissolve transition .... or a 'one-size-fits-all' pan and zoom feature ...

It is almost certain that Lr would be measurably less popular if ALL the modules had similar limitations and restrictions.
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James R

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2015, 12:15:07 am »

No bitching ... simply a statement of fact. Not all the modules in Lr receive the same level of attention to detail and open functionality that others have had from the very beginning. It's as though there is a split personality at play in the planning for future development.

What is baffling is how certain modules have been developed and/or implemented that I am disappointed with. Why some modules receive a much deeper level of refinement and others are included almost as an afterthought.

Would you find the Library beneficial if it only read .CR2 files and not .NEF files?

What if the Print module would only communicate with Epson printers and not HP or Canon?

I don't expect modules like Books or Slideshow to be perfect ... but it would be so much more useful if users could easily print a book with other vendors besides Blurb ... or build a slideshow that could use more than one 'sealed-in-the-can' dissolve transition .... or a 'one-size-fits-all' pan and zoom feature ...

It is almost certain that Lr would be measurably less popular if ALL the modules had similar limitations and restrictions.

First, my reference to "there" was not directed to you, since your ideas were theoretically implemented.

I have stated many times that I wish the tools and modules were not fixed, allowing the user to customize the program to better fit there workflow.  I agree that the Book and Slideshow could be improved; however, I go outside Lr to accomplish these functions. 

But the reality is Adobe makes those decisions.  We can state our preference, but not much more, short of moving to a new platform.
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digitaldog

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #104 on: November 10, 2015, 10:45:53 am »

But the reality is Adobe makes those decisions.  We can state our preference, but not much more, short of moving to a new platform.
The reality with a subscription model, if you don't add features and fix bugs, people will start unsubscribing. My wife loves Grays Anatomy, I think it's one of the dumbest shows I've spent 5 minutes watching. If Comcast only provided Grays Anatomy, I'd stop subscribing in a second. It's ironic that Adobe is clearly moving LR to a subscription model and like Photoshop, can't seem to come up with very interesting new features but interesting bugs. The Import dialog debacle in the last release is kind of a wakeup call.
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StephaneB

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #105 on: November 10, 2015, 11:20:26 am »

The reality with a subscription model, if you don't add features and fix bugs, people will start unsubscribing.

An then what? I don't find Lightroom easy to replace. I just ran an evaluation of ACDSee and it is depressing what weaknesses they let slip in a release.

Lightroom has a great balance of sophistication, easiness and processing quality that I find very hard to replicate by other means.

Adobe must know this and they probably feel it gives them some leeway.
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digitaldog

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #106 on: November 10, 2015, 12:34:13 pm »

An then what? I don't find Lightroom easy to replace.
Indeed, it's a dilemma. It's a reason I keep LR5 around and a catalog I update along with LR6.
IF Adobe were to say, provide PV2016 which was as useful as the other PV updates, that would be a reason I'd keep moving forward. IF LR continues as it has with the release of 6, I will have to consider sticking with LR5 or find another solution. LR6 was by and large, unimpressive as an upgrade, filled with bugs and off hand I can't think of anything it does I'd miss moving back to LR5.
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StephaneB

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #107 on: November 10, 2015, 01:20:29 pm »

Indeed, it's a dilemma. It's a reason I keep LR5 around and a catalog I update along with LR6.
IF Adobe were to say, provide PV2016 which was as useful as the other PV updates, that would be a reason I'd keep moving forward. IF LR continues as it has with the release of 6, I will have to consider sticking with LR5 or find another solution. LR6 was by and large, unimpressive as an upgrade, filled with bugs and off hand I can't think of anything it does I'd miss moving back to LR5.

I think Adobe's problem is that they have by and large solved the question of processing pictures.
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jjj

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #108 on: November 10, 2015, 02:07:18 pm »

I think Adobe's problem is that they have by and large solved the question of processing pictures.
I'm sure Capture One would beg to differ as they claim superior image processing results.
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StephaneB

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #109 on: November 10, 2015, 02:48:30 pm »

I'm sure Capture One would beg to differ as they claim superior image processing results.

They all claim to be the best, of course!

There are improvements, sure, but getting more and more marginal. Personnaly, the day Adobe will have got the hang of fine details in X-Trans, I'll be set. But even so, the worthiness of my prints only depends on how I perform, not LR or the gear.
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TomFrerichs

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #110 on: November 10, 2015, 03:33:39 pm »

I'm sure Capture One would beg to differ as they claim superior image processing results.

Also quoting StephaneB: I think Adobe's problem is that they have by and large solved the question of processing pictures.

I have no doubt that there are other RAW processors that might do a better job than Lightroom. I can certainly believe that there are other applications that can do a better job at correcting lens aberrations, adaptively sharpen, drive a printer with amazing accuracy, and make a good cup of coffee.

But...

Lightroom, ignoring some of the recent "improvements," easily does it all from ingest to cataloging to processing to printing.  It's a single package with a reasonably consistent UI.  And it's "good enough."  That's Lightroom's primary advantage: it does all that I need it to do and does it sufficiently well for my needs.

I understand that some photographers demand far more from their workflow than what Lightroom can offer. Heck, even I have a copy of DxO that I fire up on rare occasions. I might even dip into a plug-in or two--I might even use PS6 for certain things--but for the majority of what I need to do, Lightroom just works.

Notwithstanding the huge number of posts in this forum dealing with deconvolution sharpening, custom DNG profiles, and other such technical discussions, I'm willing to bet that the majority of photographers using Lightroom, enthusiasts and pros alike, would agree with me that it is "good enough."

I know there are competitors looking to get a slice of the pie. Capture One, for example, has made considerable changes. Even On1's recent release has added features to make it a more well-rounded solution. For me, though, the additions and changes have not been a compelling reason to invest the time to convert. Capture One, for example, seems to have their manual delivered mostly as videos. In my case this is a terrible way to instruct. On1's stuff doesn't really have a database backend...or at least not one that's as well integrated as Lightroom's solution.

At this time, there are only two reasons I'd seriously consider moving from Lightroom: the discontinuance of the perpetual license or Adobe so changing the UI to something else--the latest Import changes being an example--that I can neither tolerate nor easily adapt to.

The only reasons I can see upgrading to the next version of Lightroom would be additional camera support that I HAVE to have (grin), a threat that I could never upgrade again, or the addition of some really slick feature.  The last would include far improved processing (remember, though, the current is "good enough" for me), improvement of the current functionality--such as making the book module much more flexible, or adding some new compelling feature that I can't live without.

I don't know that the processing pipeline is going to be improved much, apparently Adobe has decided improving the book, web, and slide show modules isn't a high priority, and for the life of me I can't figure out what else I'd need. Because of these reasons, the only way I'll update is to keep a current, perpetually licensed version on my hard drive to ensure that I can get the next current, perpetually licensed version when it comes out.

This isn't a very good answer to the question "Where should Lightroom go next?" But it is a personal agreement with the statement, "I think Adobe's problem is that they have by and large solved the question of processing pictures."
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chez

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #111 on: November 10, 2015, 03:35:15 pm »

Personally I'd be happy if Adobe removed all the other modules and just left Library, Development and printing...and just focus on those. I have no needs for the likes of books or slide shows out of LR. I use other products for these purpose...products whose sole feature is either creating books or developing slide shows. I don't want LR heading towards a kitchen sink approach as when you do that you spread your resources thin, bloat your product and lose focus of what LR really is.

If I had a vote, i'd remove the peripheral modules and focus on the main ones.
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Denis de Gannes

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #112 on: November 10, 2015, 03:38:00 pm »

Personally I'd be happy if Adobe removed all the other modules and just left Library, Development and printing...and just focus on those. I have no needs for the likes of books or slide shows out of LR. I use other products for these purpose...products whose sole feature is either creating books or developing slide shows. I don't want LR heading towards a kitchen sink approach as when you do that you spread your resources thin, bloat your product and lose focus of what LR really is.

If I had a vote, i'd remove the peripheral modules and focus on the main ones.
+1 :)
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AlterEgo

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #113 on: November 10, 2015, 03:45:17 pm »

Also quoting StephaneB: I think Adobe's problem is that they have by and large solved the question of processing pictures.
that problem was solved by cell phones (with cameras) actually, not by Adobe at all...
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ButchM

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #114 on: November 10, 2015, 05:19:57 pm »

Personally I'd be happy if Adobe removed all the other modules and just left Library, Development and printing...and just focus on those. I have no needs for the likes of books or slide shows out of LR. I use other products for these purpose...products whose sole feature is either creating books or developing slide shows. I don't want LR heading towards a kitchen sink approach as when you do that you spread your resources thin, bloat your product and lose focus of what LR really is.

If I had a vote, i'd remove the peripheral modules and focus on the main ones.

If all you want is the basics ... we had that long before Lightroom ... it was called the Bridge/ACR/Ps workflow. Some folks were looking for a bit more.

Fortunately for all Lightroom users, you don't get to decide which modules are the 'main ones' and which are the 'peripheral modules.'

Each user has a different workflow ideal and end goals for what they produce. If you care to look back ... Lr has always had more than just Library, Develop and Print. Adobe has always thought there should be more to Lr than just those three options.
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ButchM

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #115 on: November 10, 2015, 05:28:08 pm »

An then what? I don't find Lightroom easy to replace. I just ran an evaluation of ACDSee and it is depressing what weaknesses they let slip in a release.

Lightroom has a great balance of sophistication, easiness and processing quality that I find very hard to replicate by other means.

Adobe must know this and they probably feel it gives them some leeway.

Yes, Lr is difficult to replace ... but that should in no way dictate that we users should not expect more from Adobe's efforts to further develop the products they offer.

Just because Lightroom and Adobe's products are popular, should not negate the fact that Adobe also has a responsibility to consider the input from their users on the future development. Nor should Adobe allow their success to build a false sense of grandeur and lead them to believe they don't have to be responsive those that pay their way.

It's quite obvious that Adobe will eventually force all users to adopt the subscription licensing model ... once they do, will you be willing to pay monthly ... from here to eternity ... for the same old capabilities in perpetuity ... or will you expect Adobe to further advance the progress of the software solutions they produce?
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chez

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #116 on: November 10, 2015, 08:21:41 pm »

If all you want is the basics ... we had that long before Lightroom ... it was called the Bridge/ACR/Ps workflow. Some folks were looking for a bit more.

Fortunately for all Lightroom users, you don't get to decide which modules are the 'main ones' and which are the 'peripheral modules.'

Each user has a different workflow ideal and end goals for what they produce. If you care to look back ... Lr has always had more than just Library, Develop and Print. Adobe has always thought there should be more to Lr than just those three options.

Sure it has had those other modules for a long time and you can see how much Adobe actually values them...not much. Better to get rid of they are not valued. As they sit right now, they just take up space.

As far as Bridge being as capable as LR...not even close. I can say the same with book or slideshow software...they existed before LR was even released.
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ButchM

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #117 on: November 10, 2015, 09:35:05 pm »

Sure it has had those other modules for a long time and you can see how much Adobe actually values them...not much.

That's the point ... there are a good number of customers that appreciate those other modules as evidenced by the comments shared on the Adobe Labs forum during past public betas and the U2U forum since ... forever.

The lack of enthusiasm for Adobe's interest in those modules should not be confused with a lack of interest that Lightroom users do not desire or are not interested in a Slideshow or Book module that is truly full featured and fully functional with a creative end. I contend, if Adobe would offer a better attempt ... those features would become as popular as your 'main ones' ... maybe even more so ...

Quote
Better to get rid of they are not valued. As they sit right now, they just take up space.

Good luck with that ... they tried to remove just a few features/capabilities in the Import dialog and all Hell broke lose ...

Quote
As far as Bridge being as capable as LR...not even close. I can say the same with book or slideshow software...they existed before LR was even released.

Never said Bridge was as capable as Lr ... I said their was a pared down workflow option existed prior to Lr that was not hindered by the 'peripheral modules' ...

If you don't like those extra modules ... maybe Lightroom may not be for you. Perhaps you should look at other options since you are not pleased with Adobe's offerings.
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digitaldog

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #118 on: November 10, 2015, 10:45:02 pm »

Good luck with that ... they tried to remove just a few features/capabilities in the Import dialog and all Hell broke lose ...
Exactly and for good reason. It would be suicide to remove modules, even if a few are rather lame compared to other products.
If we look at Adobe's history with both LR and for 25 years, Photoshop, removing features is slim to non existent (least we forget the last locked post on the subject of LR feature removal)  :-X
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chez

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Re: The Future of Lightroom
« Reply #119 on: November 11, 2015, 12:17:50 am »


If you don't like those extra modules ... maybe Lightroom may not be for you. Perhaps you should look at other options since you are not pleased with Adobe's offerings.

Nah...those other modules just sit there taking up memory...never used them, never had a need for them...but the rest of LR, library, develope and Print are great...glad they still enhance them.

Since you seem to need the book and slideshow modules and Adobe has no interest in them...maybe it is YOU who should look elsewhere.
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