645Z or Fujifilm GFX 100S/ 50Sii for aerial photography

[pentaxitin]

Hello friends,

A four city aerial photography campaign has been approved. Depending on its success, more cities in an Asian country would be covered in future. This will result in books and exhibitions with 24x36 size prints.

It is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I request advice and frank views on the following :

1. I already own one 645Z and 35mm, 55mm, 90mm, 150mm primes and 28-45 zoom. I have options of getting another 645Z body so that I have two similar bodies in air with two lenses. My second option is to get a Fujifilm GFX 100s/50s ii with one lens like the 80mm f1.7 or 45-100 f4. What should I do if money is not the most important factor (spending upto 10000 USD is factored, but doesn't necessarily should be spent as it is a personal money).

2. Are the two Fujifilm cameras 100s and 50s ii simply too good compared to the Pentax 645Z, to the extent that the 645Z should not be considered. An experienced Fujifilm GFX user has been asking me to ditch the Pentax completely and simply get two Fujifilm bodies because as per him, the sensor of the 645Z is too old and is no match for the "modern" Fujifilm Sensor and associated hardware / software. And no... he is not a dealer of Fujifilm and is an honest man.

3. If I pair one of the Pentax 645Z with a Kenyon Gyro KS-8 or KS 6X6, would that make it as good as the Fujifilm GFX 50Sii (which has IBIS)?

4. I personally feel that two 645Z, one with 55mm lens(or sometimes 35mm lens) and another with 90mm lens is all that I need in the air. But I can get mint condition used 45-85 f4.5 and 80-160 f4.5 zooms in less than USD 500. Changing lenses mid air is not what I would ordinarily like to do and most photography would be in broad daylight. Of course the zooms would be bulky, longer, resulting in more wind slap and not image-stabilised (as the 90mm is), but give flexibility and longer reach. The flexibility of the zooms is a very important factor in the air. What are your views? Are the zooms as good as the primes stopped down to f8? At f8, with shutter speed at atleast 1/1250 to 1/1500 (to cater to the longer lengths of the zooms getting buffeted by strong winds), the ISO will be high upto say ISO 400 in daylight and upto 1600 in overcast conditions, whereas the primes are likely to keep me at ISO 100/200 at optimum stops of say f4.5 to 5.6. So, all things considered, are the zooms better or the cons of the zooms outweigh their pros?

5. Between Fujifilm GFX 100S and 50S ii, which would be a better and cost-optimal solution without compromising quality, considering that the 100S is USD 4000 more expensive and that the 50Sii is a latest camera?

6. Is a good condition Hasselblad with motor drive and with a Schneider/Zeiss/Hasselblad lens and a P50 MF Digital Back mounted with the Kenyon Gyro a better option to the Fujifilm 50Sii or even the 100S, at least in daylight photography? I don't need high frame rates. If I can shoot one frame per second without filling up the buffer, I will be absolutely fine.

7. Is there any talk of a new Pentax 645 camera coming up in near future?

8. Finally, is there something really to be gained by using a Phase One camera with 100MP back and a modern Schneider lens compared to the smaller Pentax and Fujifilm sensors, if the prints are going to be limited to max 24" x 36"? I am going to shoot with lenses taped to infinity & I will be happy to shoot with one frame per second too.

Thanking you all in anticipation,

Regards.

[Ken Schuster]

If you haven't done aerial before, you should familiarize yourself with it locally first. Find out what kind of aircraft it will be, and how it will be configured for photography, e.g., open windows, doorways, safety harnesses. As photography platforms, helicopters, fixed-wing, low-wing vs high-wing, single vs multi-engine are all very different from each other. Get a high quality pair of goggles (clear ski goggles and shooting glasses will work) and get used to wearing and shooting with them. In many locations, aircraft are restricted to specific heights and flight paths. Find out before you get there. A detailed topo of the area would be very helpful. Altitude above ground is a major factor not only for focal length, but also atmospheric conditions. Check into seasonal weather probabilities at the location. Take and familiarize yourself with UV and polarizing filters and lens shades (hoods). A graduated ND filter could help reduce burned-out sky. Image stabilization is a must.

[pentaxitin]

Thanks Ken. Very valid points. I have been shooting aerial for some time now and am comfortable doing it. It is just that this kind of photography campaign may not happen again for a long time to come, and I would rather use the best equipment that I possibly can. Hence the questions about equipment pros and cons

[Joe Towner]

I have the 645z & GFX100 plus have done some aerial shots with the IQ4 150mp.

What is the purpose of the shots? You're printing at 24x36 which is a good start, but are you looking to sell them?  Are you focusing on wide shots, or on tight building specific shots?

Unless you're going to the 100mp, the GFX50's all have the same sensor as the 645z.  The advantages of the Kenyon is when you need the slow shutter speeds - not a middle of the day issue.  The tricks I use for shooting from a heli is to get over 1/1000th shutter speed.  Shooting wide open or 1 stop down is perfect.  That and shooting in high speed continuous mode - rotors, movement, it's just easier to over-shoot.

The 45-85mm (645z) was my solo camera lens, and when flying with a second camera (Hass w/ 35-90) I'd swap to the 150mm lens.  With the GFX100 I like the 45-100, but would have liked something wider on my last flight.

There are 2 steps up from what you have, the GFX 100/100s and the IQ4 150mp.  If you like the 645z, grabbing a second one is a good idea. One camera with 28-45, other with the 45-85 or 75mm/2.8 & call it done.

If you're going to buy something new, get the GFX100s.  Just know that it'll lead you to selling your Pentax gear.  Pentax doesn't recognize they make a MF system, it is what it is, and it'll just keep working until it doesn't.

Going to the larger sensor isn't going to give you something better than the GFX100.

[pentaxitin]

I have the 645z & GFX100 plus have done some aerial shots with the IQ4 150mp.

What is the purpose of the shots? You're printing at 24x36 which is a good start, but are you looking to sell them?  Are you focusing on wide shots, or on tight building specific shots?

Unless you're going to the 100mp, the GFX50's all have the same sensor as the 645z.  The advantages of the Kenyon is when you need the slow shutter speeds - not a middle of the day issue.  The tricks I use for shooting from a heli is to get over 1/1000th shutter speed.  Shooting wide open or 1 stop down is perfect.  That and shooting in high speed continuous mode - rotors, movement, it's just easier to over-shoot.

The 45-85mm (645z) was my solo camera lens, and when flying with a second camera (Hass w/ 35-90) I'd swap to the 150mm lens.  With the GFX100 I like the 45-100, but would have liked something wider on my last flight.

There are 2 steps up from what you have, the GFX 100/100s and the IQ4 150mp.  If you like the 645z, grabbing a second one is a good idea. One camera with 28-45, other with the 45-85 or 75mm/2.8 & call it done.

If you're going to buy something new, get the GFX100s.  Just know that it'll lead you to selling your Pentax gear.  Pentax doesn't recognize they make a MF system, it is what it is, and it'll just keep working until it doesn't.

Going to the larger sensor isn't going to give you something better than the GFX100.

Thanks Joe.

24x36 prints for exhibition is the start point. I may sell the images sometime in future, though it is not on the cards now.

Since you shoot both the Pentax and the Fujifilm, do you find the Pentax visibly inferior to the Fujifilm? If yes, in which way exactly?

From the air, I will be looking at patterns, naturescapes, city-nature interface people activities etc. I find 55mm on Pentax 645Z as an ideal lens most of the times. 90mm has been useful at times. Rarely I get into the below 35mm category. I guess I could use the 28-45 to good effect, if I have a second body with focal length equivalent to between 60-80mm (in FF format). Hence, the second Pentax body with 45-85 on it becomes tempting. Alternatively, I could use 35mm/55mm on one body and 90mm on another and just live with them.

The Kenyon gyro will help in overcast conditions or for night time photography. I think a Pentax 645Z with Kenyon gyro might be akin to a Fujifilm 50S with IBIS. And i can keep using this gyro for other purposes like low light wildlife photography when the subject is reasonably still etc.

One more question for you : for a typical lens like Pentax 645 55mm or 90mm, which is a better optoon: lens wide open at f2.8 at ISO 200/400 or lens stopped down to f4 and ISO at 400/800 respectively?

[Joe Towner]

The Pentax is inferior in that it's just an older camera.  Still works great, takes great photos, but it's an older camera.  Newer cameras have it beat in megapixels, autofocus technology & accuracy, plus IBIS/ILIS. 

I hate to ask, but do you have the ability to upgrade to a better heli? The 60's bird that you were on, trying to counteract the shake is limited at best. The gyro will slow down your movements, so re-framing between shots will be slower.  Plus it's on only one camera - unless you're going to put it on a quick release plate.

For aerial work, I find that shutter speed rules all.  Shooting at 2.8 or 4 doesn't matter as much as I'm focusing on the buildings and the DoF doesn't matter since I'm at hyperfocal focus.  The 55mm & 90mm are both digital lenses - they are fine wide open.

GFX 100 w/ 45-100mm f4 lens
at 45mm, f4, ISO 1250 1/480th
From my twitter post

[Ken Schuster]

The 60's bird that you were on, trying to counteract the shake is limited at best. The gyro will slow down your movements, so re-framing between shots will be slower.  Plus it's on only one camera - unless you're going to put it on a quick release plate.

For aerial work, I find that shutter speed rules all.  Shooting at 2.8 or 4 doesn't matter as much as I'm focusing on the buildings and the DoF doesn't matter since I'm at hyperfocal focus.  The 55mm & 90mm are both digital lenses - they are fine wide open.

 

[pentaxitin]

Thanks Joe for your detailed post.

I am sorry but I have to make do with the available helicopter of 1960s/ 1970s vintage. I might get a newer chopper sometimes, but then the old Alouette gives the best all round view from the rear seat compared to the newer one.

I use the TAv mode on the Pentax. Shutter speeds remain upwards of 1000 during the day, aperture generally f/4 and smaller and the ISO whatever best I get.

[ACH DIGITAL]

Hi guys, I would like to take about my experiences doing aerial photography with the Fujifilm GFX 100S and 50R.

I started doing aerials long time ago even before digital, I've used many camera systems including non digital Nikon and Bronica, later Sony A7R2 and now the Fuji's.

I usually use the GF 45mm 2.8 on the 50R as it has no IOS and I'm super happy with the results. (first image shown).

A few month back I bought the GF 100-200 5.6 lens which is IS and have used it extensively with the GFX 100S with IBIS on and the results had been amazing. I'm shooting at 5.6 and change the ISO according to the time of the day I'm working. (second image shown ISO 1250).

So in my experience having worked with all these systems, I can happily say the GFX is the best experience and best results so far, tag sharp images from a medium format camera even at dusk.

[pentaxitin]

Hi guys, I would like to take about my experiences doing aerial photography with the Fujifilm GFX 100S and 50R.

I started doing aerials long time ago even before digital, I've used many camera systems including non digital Nikon and Bronica, later Sony A7R2 and now the Fuji's.

I usually use the GF 45mm 2.8 on the 50R as it has no IOS and I'm super happy with the results. (first image shown).

A few month back I bought the GF 100-200 5.6 lens which is IS and have used it extensively with the GFX 100S with IBIS on and the results had been amazing. I'm shooting at 5.6 and change the ISO according to the time of the day I'm working. (second image shown ISO 1250).

So in my experience having worked with all these systems, I can happily say the GFX is the best experience and best results so far, tag sharp images from a medium format camera even at dusk.

Thank you very much for the details.