Used Canon iPF8400 (leak question)

[henrikolsen]

I can get a used iPF8400 (12-color, 44") with a claimed perfect nozzle test for roughly 800 USD, with some good amount of ink and 5 roll shafts. It has one new print head.

It is reported to have a slight leak on the left side (around 5 drops a day). I'm trying to clarify what the means. It is claimed to function fine otherwise, but of course I won't like a leak.

Can you help advise what questions to ask to clarify/solve this claimed issue, or whether to run as fast as I can the other way?

[henrikolsen]

Have received further info about the leak, as follows:

[It's at the opposite side of maintenance cartridge, and where it cleans. There are six ink tanks in that side where the ink comes out. The ink is dark green / black, like what gets in the waste. So it has to be some kind of waste ink. My theory is that it's the ink that comes in the venting channels running out. But it has to be ink through the printhead, since it had that color. Else it would be pure colors. I have asked dealer what it would cost to repair. They had no clue, and had only seen it if the model had been moved, but this hasn't. I would think not to repair it, but it's up to you. There have been collected roughly 1 cm dripping in a plastic cup during one month or so.]

and

[Apparently no ink waste where paper passes. Drips whether active or not.]

What does these clarifications give me?

Says it's working and with plenty of ink. And I could use an 8+ pigment roll printer (but cannot afford a new with current volume needs) to supplement a sheet printer and dye roll printer. What do you make of this? Use it while it lasts and throw out after, or use and possibly DIY repair, or...

[DtEW]

First off, let me point to the existence of this: iPF8300 service manual.

Second, your wording of the location of the leak is unclear.  If the printer is facing you (as a user would use the machine most of the time), the maintenance cartridge and the purge unit (where the heads are cleaned) are both on the right side of the machine.  Do you mean the leak is on the left side of the machine?  Is it near the front or back?

Third, in my recent experience of rebuilding the ink-train of a parts-donor iPF6100 (for the purposes of deep mothballing), I found that the ports (and presumably the seals within) of each ink tank tend to become leaky after they've been sitting on the extraction/vacuum relief needles for awhile.  Canon actually took this into account by putting in a drip "funnel" (really just a tear-drop-shaped ridge) around each extraction needle that funnels needle exterior drip/leak into a separate waste port (for each tank) that empties into non-user serviceable pads (but certainly doable with a service manual and a degree of mechanical aptitude) under the ink tank assembly.

If after removing enough covers you find that this "leak" is coming from under a bank of tanks... it could very well be that this waste pad is saturated.  Being that you say the leak is constant, it could simply be that one (or more) tanks are seeping out of their ports around the needles.

For the iPF6100 there are 4 pads for the 12 tanks, and the pads are adjacent and not seriously separated from each other (what would be the point?).  That might be able to produce your mixed colors.

[henrikolsen]

Thanks for the reply, DtEW. The wording of the issues are through the sellers explanation, and translated - so I don't currently have 1st hand observations or knowledge. But I'm pretty sure the leak is on the left side (seen from front/operator) and opposite the maintenance area.

Your theory with saturated waste pads seem plausible, and such experience is good to hear.

I wonder though, even if I did put in new waste pads, is the current dripping rate unusually high, and/or would it likely get better when current ink tanks eventually gets replaced (in case current ink cartridge ports are leaky)?

A cup is now collecting the drippings, not pretty I imagine, and not something I want. But I'm up for some DIY if not major costs are involved.

I will browse the service manual and get an idea about what's going on in the mentioned area.

[stockjock]

I have no idea why the printer is leaking but I wanted to point out a couple of things that might make sense in parsing the decision from a cost standpoint.  The RH2-44 roll holder sets retail for $150 all by themselves.  5 of them seems like overkill so maybe you could sell 3 if you could figure shipping out.  Also, you haven't quantified what a good amount of ink is but I'm guessing the ink is work $300-800 by itself.  Assuming the printer prints and feeds properly I woudn't worry that much about the drip.  You do need to do a nozzle check in Service mode though.  You can do that by holding down the Navigate and Load buttons as you power it up until an S appears in the upper right corner.  Then you just have to look for the appropriate menu item.  You should be able to google it or send me a private message and I'll dig up the instructions.  Your biggest downside will be how to dispose of it once that worsens beyond repair.  And moving the printer to its new location without tilting it will be a hassle.

[henrikolsen]

Considering renting a big van. Any tips on handling the beast for transporting. 140+ kg seems extremely difficult to handle? Off the stand, then put some kind of rollers on the floor it can slide along in the van? Fork lift?

The depth, seen from the front, or the width if you will from the side, has been reported here as 27" to 28". The door hole is extremely tight here, like 28" sharp I think, width the door off. I won't be doing an ink transportation emptying, level 3, as it wastes 1800ml of ink, nor will I do 600ml of dump for level 2. So close to zero tilting around the length axis is mandatory it seems. There _might_ be an option through a slightly wider window. But how to lift it through... I already think a 24" roll printer is heavy, even a Pro-1000 17". So the 44"...

[henrikolsen]

Leak is identified and fixed by seller, by emptying the four waste containers shown in service manual. Price went up to around 1000 USD.

Status print says around 11.000 sqm, that sounds wild to me - that's equivalent to 11.000 A0 prints. Around 15.000 cuts. Wow. A concern, or not an issue, as long as print heads are replaced on demand?

Both printheads are around 200 days old, with around 600.000 Mdots ejected. What's expected milage left in those, and in the printer as a whole, you think? I will have a very low usage, but want to get my feet wet on 44" capacity with my own gear.

Printer is being replaced with a Pro-4000S, and now for sale.

[DtEW]

It sounds like he drained the waste ink absorbers (parts 1, 2, 2 and 3) as shown on page 3-11 of the manual.  I think they're variously referred-to in the Service Mode section of the service manual as "waste ink box unit" and "platen ink box unit" (as a sometimes-technical-writer/editor, variations in terminology when there is no real need to... is an irritation to me).

The Service Mode portion of the service manual suggests that the printer keeps track of the usage of these consumable parts, which suggests that they are chipped.  Sometime there are provisions/tricks to resetting a counter (as there is for the maintenance cartridge of the iPF6100), but I don't see one for these for the iPF8300, at least not specified in the service manual.

I think the possible upside is that it suggests there wasn't a gross mechanical problem with the printer.

I think the possible downside is that it suggests questions as to how the printer was used/not-maintained.  We also don't know if he 1) changed out the parts (best), or 2) just emptied-out these waste ink absorbers via any number of ways that may range from complete solutions (eg. washing out and drying the absorbent pads, if they're anything like the maintenance tanks) to half-ass ones.  And we don't know if he's done anything about the usage counter, and what problems that might create.

11,000 square meters is ~820 rolls of 44" x 39' (111.8 cm x 12 m) of 44" fine art paper.  That gives me pause for any mechanical device.  It's like saying that a car should run fine forever if you just maintain it and give it all the necessary oil changes.  That's only (somewhat) true for the subsystems the maintenance regimens cover.  It is generally not feasible to engineer consumer goods in a way that all points-of-wear can be maintained.

Ultimately, what the risk calculus of investment vs. potential gain is something only you can determine.

[henrikolsen]

Received test prints from the printer today, my own montage. Also nozzle checks and status print. The nozzle check is not perfect as promised. PM and R (on two different heads) have some problems, mostly the PM. Several box lines missing or weak. This together with the fact that one of the print heads was advertised as new and it's not, 4 ink cartridges are 3rd party inks and the high mileage (and somewhat imprecise information) is making this a no go I think. Sometimes things are too good to be true, for a reason. Thanks for input on this.