Mamiya RZ vers Schneider

[rgmoore]

I am an advanced amateur photographer and I have been following the posts of this forum. I am anticipating the release of HY6 and I am understanding that the pricing will be comparible to H3D. Hence I am considering the Mamiya RZ67 proIID.  I do portraits in the studio with strobe and on location, and some landscapes. I use to shoot RB67 years ago with film. I like Bellows focusing, Macro capability, and revolving back.

If anyone has experiences or information with Mamiya RZ and Schneider Lens, I would appreciate any suggestions or any other information that would be helpful.

Richard

[Graham Mitchell]

I assume you are looking for a digital option, as this is a digital forum.

The Mamiya is robust and some of the lenses are top notch. However, any digital back on the RZ will suffer from a huge crop factor, i.e. only a small part of the viewfinder represents the image area, and worse still, the FOV of all lenses becomes much narrower. The widest lens available, 50mm, will become equivalent to something like 35mm on a 35mm SLR.

So the system is limited at the wide end, and larger and heavier than it needs to be, as well as suffering from other limitations of the RZ system. I used the RZ a bit with film and would still recommend it to a film user, but not for digital.

[Caracalla]

MAMIYA RZ PRO IID would be my choice if I don’t want to be bothered by
What’s the next weeks best big thing and if the money is not the object and I have to sacrifice everything
for the sake of the very best, Schneider is the answer for sure. But if you can personally see the
difference between the Schneider and Mamiya and happen to favor the one that you see I would go
for that one even if it was canon only because at that point either I have to trust my eyes, or educate
them to see what's right.

However there are plenty of knowledgeable people here to help, I am sure you will find what
you are looking for.

REGARDS

[pss]

i am a huge fan of schneider lenses...i think they are the best....
that said: i am now shooting with a P30 back that i can put on my 645afIID OR my RZIID....so i have great af, handheld and studio, 1/400sync workhorse.....the RZ lenses might not be as good as the schneiders but i have never seen any problems with them and they are phantastic...btw: just bought a new in box 180 (latest verison) on ebay for 260.-....so that is one thing to consider....
the finder image in the RZ is of course smaller then the full frame 6x7 image, but it is the same size as on any other camera...it won't be any bigger in the Hy6....
the only drawback is the lack of true WA on the RZ....i don't need it and i have a 35mm for the 645....and with the way mamiya prices are and the news that phase might build in correction software for the 28 in C1v4, i will probably buy the 28 when it comes out....
so for a lot less money you get 2 complete sytems which can handle anything from sports to studio portrait, a lens range that actually compares to the one for the Hy6 (only a lot cheaper)....

if i would have to rate the lenses i would rate the schneider lenses at 100...i would rate the RZ lenses at 95...although i really haven't seen a difference...i just FEEL the schneiders are better....
one other thing to consider is that the schneiders are the fastest lenses around...the RZ lenses are not that fast....but i shoot everything between 8 and 32...so i don't really care....

the 645 lenses are ok, i still think they are at least as good as H1 lenses or hassV lenses...but not as good as schneider or RZ or fuji 680....

i find myself shooting the RZ more and more....

also this stuff is out right now, available and proven....

i am saying this because i tested all the backs and found the P30 to be right for me...my (close) second choice was the emotion, in that case i would still be on 6008 with schneiders...

[rgmoore]

Thank you Graham Mitchell, Caracalla and Paul. All of your comments and suggestions are extremely helpful. I was not aware of some of the limitations, like the "Huge crop factor". Regarding the mention that some of the RZ lenses are top notch; are there any that should be avoided? Historically I have not had the need for wide angle lenses. I would start with 110 mm lens which is usually a part of the basic outfit, and later add 65 mm, and for the long lens 180 or 210 mm. Paul, thank you for your numerical assessment. It sounds like with the RZ one gets 95% value for 50% of the cost. Since the pricing expectations for HY6 should be released soon, I will wait a little longer before making the final decision. Thank you again.
Regards Richard

i am a huge fan of schneider lenses...i think they are the best....
that said: i am now shooting with a P30 back that i can put on my 645afIID OR my RZIID....so i have great af, handheld and studio, 1/400sync workhorse.....the RZ lenses might not be as good as the schneiders but i have never seen any problems with them and they are phantastic...btw: just bought a new in box 180 (latest verison) on ebay for 260.-....so that is one thing to consider....
the finder image in the RZ is of course smaller then the full frame 6x7 image, but it is the same size as on any other camera...it won't be any bigger in the Hy6....
the only drawback is the lack of true WA on the RZ....i don't need it and i have a 35mm for the 645....and with the way mamiya prices are and the news that phase might build in correction software for the 28 in C1v4, i will probably buy the 28 when it comes out....
so for a lot less money you get 2 complete sytems which can handle anything from sports to studio portrait, a lens range that actually compares to the one for the Hy6 (only a lot cheaper)....

if i would have to rate the lenses i would rate the schneider lenses at 100...i would rate the RZ lenses at 95...although i really haven't seen a difference...i just FEEL the schneiders are better....
one other thing to consider is that the schneiders are the fastest lenses around...the RZ lenses are not that fast....but i shoot everything between 8 and 32...so i don't really care....

the 645 lenses are ok, i still think they are at least as good as H1 lenses or hassV lenses...but not as good as schneider or RZ or fuji 680....

i find myself shooting the RZ more and more....

also this stuff is out right now, available and proven....

i am saying this because i tested all the backs and found the P30 to be right for me...my (close) second choice was the emotion, in that case i would still be on 6008 with schneiders...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101520\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[pss]

Thank you Graham Mitchell, Caracalla and Paul. All of your comments and suggestions are extremely helpful. I was not aware of some of the limitations, like the "Huge crop factor". Regarding the mention that some of the RZ lenses are top notch; are there any that should be avoided? Historically I have not had the need for wide angle lenses. I would start with 110 mm lens which is usually a part of the basic outfit, and later add 65 mm, and for the long lens 180 or 210 mm. Paul, thank you for your numerical assessment. It sounds like with the RZ one gets 95% value for 50% of the cost. Since the pricing expectations for HY6 should be released soon, I will wait a little longer before making the final decision. Thank you again.
Regards Richard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

it is impossible t put these values into numbers....you could just as well say that you get 100% for 10% of the cost! but if you are going for a certain look that only certain lenses can give you....there is no substitute....
the RZ is a top notch system with some limitations (big, heavy, no AF,....) that a lot of people would not want to deal with...for me, none of these are shortcomings....everybody has different requirements.....but one thing can be said about the RZ..the lenses are very, very good....i don't know of a lemon...i have the 127, 140, 180...they are all phantastic...

the crop factor is determined by the back, not the camera...of course the bigger the finder (and the RZ has a big finder) the more obvious the crop gets....for me the P30 works perfectly...i always have the loupe folded out and it covers the area beautifully....

[NBP]

I've recently gone fully digital using an aptus 65 on an RZ Pro II and It's working out fine for me. I primarally shoot food & drink using a 110 & 150 often with extensions.
Yes, the cropped back changes your lenses quite a bit, but it's nothing you can't get used to pretty quickly.
Leaf supply a Mamiya focus screen with the landscape & portrait crop of the A65 and I've simply masked off the unused areas with tape for easier viewing.
I've also got a 65mm which I've so far been happy with on the a65 too.

As pss has said, it's all a personal choice at the end of the day and I'm happy to be able to contiue using the superb RZ & it's lenes - which I've always been 100% happy with.

[free1000]

This is not directly relevant as its a comparison between Mamiya 645 and Schneider lenses but I found it quite surprising so I'll post it as a point of reference.

I have a brand new 150mm AF lens for the Mamiya, and an old Schneider 150 f5.6 Apo-Symmar that I bought from Mr Cad (a rather rubbish 2nd hand dealer... and the lens had a crappy shutter that had the wrong scale fitted so exposures were about 1.3 stops wrong) for £100.00

To my surprise the Schneider is about as sharp as the Mamiya lens, but its an LF lens. In addition the Mamiya lens has a fair bit of CA whereas the Schneider has none.
 
I use the Schneider 150 on an Ebony 45-S with a Cambo sliding back.

And the Schneider 35XL and 47XL digitars knock anything else I've used into a cocked hat.

[rgmoore]

Paul thank you again. The savings afforded by the RZ would allow for a better DB. Orignaly I considered P20 or P21, now I am thinking P30. You mentioned in one of your post that 11x14 is your largest size print. Do you notice significant differnce between P20 and the p30 in the 11x14 size?
Richard

This is not directly relevant as its a comparison between Mamiya 645 and Schneider lenses but I found it quite surprising so I'll post it as a point of reference.

I have a brand new 150mm AF lens for the Mamiya, and an old Schneider 150 f5.6 Apo-Symmar that I bought from Mr Cad (a rather rubbish 2nd hand dealer... and the lens had a crappy shutter that had the wrong scale fitted so exposures were about 1.3 stops wrong) for £100.00

To my surprise the Schneider is about as sharp as the Mamiya lens, but its an LF lens. In addition the Mamiya lens has a fair bit of CA whereas the Schneider has none.
 
I use the Schneider 150 on an Ebony 45-S with a Cambo sliding back.

And the Schneider 35XL and 47XL digitars knock anything else I've used into a cocked hat.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101661\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[pss]

Paul thank you again. The savings afforded by the RZ would allow for a better DB. Orignaly I considered P20 or P21, now I am thinking P30. You mentioned in one of your post that 11x14 is your largest size print. Do you notice significant differnce between P20 and the p30 in the 11x14 size?
Richard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=101746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i really hate to knock the P20, but the P30 really is much better..the option to crop, the extra resolution....also it is a newer generation of chips....better color, higher ISO....
a perfectly exposed simple scene (not too much detailed shadows) shot at 100 might look the same printed from a P20 or a P30....the P30 just gives you more options....
i don't think the P21 makes a lot of sense unless the price is very close....or you need superfast shooting...
the P30 is the best all around back and for the money it really is a steal....
with ebay you can get a full RZ, lenses,645,lenses and a P30 under 25000....if you already have the cameras....even better.....