A9 issues - any first hand experience?

[BernardLanguillier]

https://photorumors.com/2017/05/28/sony-a9-overheating-and-other-reported-problems/

Don't know whether these are part of the anti Sony web warfare or if there is some reality to these?

Both the over-heating and the banding are potential show stoppers, do we have any first hand experiences from LL shooters?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Bernard

[lightskyland]

All the Sony OSPDAF sensors can display mild artifacting ("banding") in strongly backlit images. It's a function of the toppings on the OSPDAF pixels.

I haven't seen any indication that anyone's A9 has shut down due to overheating - just the "we are getting warm" sensor indication.

[BernardLanguillier]

All the Sony OSPDAF sensors can display mild artifacting ("banding") in strongly backlit images. It's a function of the toppings on the OSPDAF...

Hum... not sure this is what Lloyd Chambers is seeing...

Interesting to see how different companies manage technological risks.

I am pretty sure that both Nikon and Canon would not have released a camera suffering from such issues. Which is probably why they don't have FX mirrorless cameras out yet.

It will be for a9 users to decide if they love their new toy enough to give Sony a pass on these issues. Personnally I would be unhappy with them since I have been used to cameras fully usable within their range of usage. Let's hope there are some software fixes.

Cheers,
Bernard

[hogloff]

Hum... not sure this is what Lloyd Chambers is seeing...

Interesting to see how different companies manage technological risks.

I am pretty sure that both Nikon and Canon would not have released a camera suffering from such issues. Which is probably why they don't have FX mirrorless cameras out yet.

It will be for a9 users to decide if they love their new toy enough to give Sony a pass on these issues. Personnally I would be unhappy with them since I have been used to cameras fully usable within their range of usage. Let's hope there are some software fixes.

Cheers,
Bernard

Really...what has Canon been releasing this past decade other than banding monsters. My 5D2 was horrendous if I had to touch the shadows. This could occur in every single image. The Sony problem is very slight compared to the 5d2 and occurs only when extreme bright highlights dominate the image...ie: totally blown out areas.

And by the way the same problem exists in the A7R2...look at all those ruined images.

[Kevin Raber]

As mentioned in my article I ordered and have received my a9.  I haven't experienced any overheating.  I had the camera outside all day yesterday in around 80-degree heat shooting rusty cars in a junkyard.  Didn't see one warning and I was shooting a lot of images.  The camera didn't feel hot.  Now that I see these comments I will go out on a hot day and try to make it overheat.  Also, I have not seen any banding as mentioned elsewhere.  I shot almost everything yesterday at ISO 100 and at various f/stops. I also tried the single, medium and high-speed settings for frame rate.  Even tried a number of burst shots to see if the buffer could be filled.  I was shooting RAW and imported them into Capture One.  Lots more to shoot.  I'll have a 12-24mm lens report soon.  That's a nice lens.  I was shooting with a 24-70mm G-Master yesterday.

Also, I had to update all my lenses to work with the a9.  So, even if your lenses aren't G-Master they will need updating.  Check the Sony support site for information.  I imported all the uncompressed RAWS into Capture One.  I'll look over the files more closely tonight, especially in the Red channel as mentioned by Lloyd.

So far, so good.

[shadowblade]

I believe the banding under certain lighting is related to the different reflectance characteristics of the covering over the PDAF pixels. This would easily be correctable by applying the same covering over every pixel, whether an active PDAF pixel or not, but could come at a slight cost in high-ISO sensitivity. Alternatively, it could be mitigated by tweaking the antialiasing filter.

The 'overheating' issue appears to be not so much a case of actual overheating as it is one of the warning coming on at too low a temperature - all the accounts seem to be one of the warning coming on, not of heat-related shutdown or malfunction; in all cases, it seemed that the camera kept working as normal long after the warning came on.

[BernardLanguillier]

Really...what has Canon been releasing this past decade other than banding monsters. My 5D2 was horrendous if I had to touch the shadows. This could occur in every single image. The Sony problem is very slight compared to the 5d2 and occurs only when extreme bright highlights dominate the image...ie: totally blown out areas.

And by the way the same problem exists in the A7R2...look at all those ruined images.

You have a point, but the Canon banding was only occuring in very deep shadows wasn't it?

Cheers,
Bernard

[shadowblade]

You have a point, but the Canon banding was only occuring in very deep shadows wasn't it?

Cheers,
Bernard

Canon banding is completely different - it is a noise problem, due to electronic read noise (pattern noise). Sony's banding isn't noise. It's almost a form of lens flare - as in, PDAF pixels reflect light differently from non-PDAF pixels. So it isn't electronically correctable, only shows up when bright light is directly hitting the sensor and should be correctable with an alteration to the optics (in this case, the filter and microlens stack lying directly in front of the sensor).

[BernardLanguillier]

Canon banding is completely different - it is a noise problem, due to electronic read noise (pattern noise). Sony's banding isn't noise. It's almost a form of lens flare - as in, PDAF pixels reflect light differently from non-PDAF pixels. So it isn't electronically correctable, only shows up when bright light is directly hitting the sensor and should be correctable with an alteration to the optics (in this case, the filter and microlens stack lying directly in front of the sensor).

It's lucky I don't have to chosen between these 2 issues.

Cheers,
Bernard

[shadowblade]

It's lucky I don't have to chosen between these 2 issues.

Cheers,
Bernard

Never actually seen the Sony issue, outside of a few sample images. And I probably tax the sensor and push the RAW more than most.

[pegelli]

I don't know if my observation applies to the A9, but in certain internet circles the A6000 was deemed absolutely unusable due this banding issue. However I have only observed the phenomena in 1 of my >8000 shots with that camera. It only happened in one case when I had strong backlight and veiling flare but not more often. I have plenty other strong backlight pics with that camera that are perfectly OK.

So my conclusion is that the issue is real, but disproportionaly overblown in its importance.

My guess (or maybe hope) would be that the same is true for the other Sony cameras with similar technology sensors. 

[BernardLanguillier]

Never actually seen the Sony issue, outside of a few sample images. And I probably tax the sensor and push the RAW more than most.

Do you own an A9 or are you assuming that the issue with the A9 is the same one occuring with other Sony cameras you own?

Cheers,
Bernard

[Farmer]

So my conclusion is that the issue is real, but disproportionaly overblown in its importance.

On the internet? Overblown?  Say it isn't so! :-)

[shadowblade]

Do you own an A9 or are you assuming that the issue with the A9 is the same one occuring with other Sony cameras you own?

Cheers,
Bernard

At the moment I don't own any cameras, only a few lenses (most of them specialised ones not useful for general photography) or a tripod head (I still have a tripod, since the big one wasn't with me when I was robbed).

This is based on the A7r2.

I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison between the A7r2 and A99ii in a banding-inducing situation. The A99ii, lacking on-sensor PDAF, shouldn't display the bands.

[BernardLanguillier]

At the moment I don't own any cameras, only a few lenses (most of them specialised ones not useful for general photography) or a tripod head (I still have a tripod, since the big one wasn't with me when I was robbed).

This is based on the A7r2.

I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison between the A7r2 and A99ii in a banding-inducing situation. The A99ii, lacking on-sensor PDAF, shouldn't display the bands.

We should add the a9. The theory that PDAF are the root cause is just that for now, a theory.

And apologies, I didn't have in mind the fact that you had been tobbed.

Cheers,
Bernard

[shadowblade]

We should add the a9. The theory that PDAF are the root cause is just that for now, a theory.

And apologies, I didn't have in mind the fact that you had been tobbed.

Cheers,
Bernard

Someone actually counted the number of lines - it matches exactly with the number of lines of PDAF points.

[NancyP]

I haven't seen Canonistas complaining about Sony-style banding on Canon PDAF cameras.

[hogloff]

I haven't seen Canonistas complaining about Sony-style banding on Canon PDAF cameras.

Well since this Sony banding issue is in the A7R2...we really haven't seen anyone complain about it with the millions of photos taken with the Sony cameras.

 Bottom line, if the utubers that obtain money by sensationalizing things did not dig really hard...we may not ever discovered it.

[shadowblade]

I haven't seen Canonistas complaining about Sony-style banding on Canon PDAF cameras.

Different PDAF method (Canon uses their dual pixel technology, and I believe every pixel on the sensor is dual-pixel, not just the ones used for AF). Also, the correlation with PDAF doesn't imply that it is PDAF per se that's causing it - merely that there may be a difference in light-collecting ability (whether due to reflection or absorption) between the PDAF pixels and the non-PDAF pixels in the setting of very high direct illumination.

Make every pixel the same (whether it is actually used for AF or not) and you'd probably fix it.

[shadowblade]

Well since this Sony banding issue is in the A7R2...we really haven't seen anyone complain about it with the millions of photos taken with the Sony cameras.

 Bottom line, if the utubers that obtain money by sensationalizing things did not dig really hard...we may not ever discovered it.

Never actually seen it happen outside of tests where the camera is pointed directly at the sun or at a flash.