Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on November 12, 2014, 05:21:23 pm
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Phase One A-Series (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/phase-one-a-series?utm_source=DT+Eblast+List+%282014+Overhaul%29&utm_campaign=58ba22f72b-A-Series&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c2781fb3f9-58ba22f72b-160564389) will be coming soon to NYC.
(https://digitaltransitions.com/images/upload/a-series-250.png)
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Appears to be Alpa TC with one of 3 IQ2's and an iPhone--is there anything I'm not seeing? I use my IQ280 on my Alpa Max for critical work--and the Alpa Rodenstock lenses--does this do anything better or other advantage? I'm not trying to be cynical, but seriously curious.
As nice as it may be, please tell me that this isn't the long promised and awaited PhaseOne new camera
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Appears to be Alpa TC with one of 3 IQ2's and an iPhone--is there anything I'm not seeing? I use my IQ280 on my Alpa Max for critical work--and the Alpa Rodenstock lenses--does this do anything better or other advantage? I'm not trying to be cynical, but seriously curious.
As nice as it may be, please tell me that this isn't the long promised and awaited PhaseOne new camera
This is NOT the new Phase One camera. Investment in an entirely new ground-up SLR body is Phase One's highest R+D priority at the moment, and is entirely unrelated to the Phase A-Series (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/phase-one-a-series).
Differences from buying an Alpa TC and P1 IQ2 back separately:
- Delivered as a package. Warrantied as a package - 5 years, all components.
- Calibration* done by factory (though we as a dealer can do this with an Arca (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/arca-swiss) and Cambo (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/cambo-cameras) kit)
- Includes tilting iPhone holder.
- LCC for supported lenses loaded at factory and automatically corrected on LCD and in Capture Pilot.
- Bit lower cost than the related bits and pieces sold separately. Similar to DT's exclusive Arca Bundles (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/photoplus-specials).
*In the case of the A-Series mechanical shims are included to make sure focus alignment is perfect to the back. When we calibrate an Arca kit is via an offset, and when we calibrate a Cambo kit it is via a lens helical adjustment. All three methods accomplish the same thing.
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- Bit lower cost than the related bits and pieces sold separately. Similar to DT's exclusive Arca Bundles (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/photoplus-specials).
This is not the case at all. The pricing is virtually the same, whether you buy the A series as a kit, or whether you buy them as individual pieces. There is no discounted savings in buying this as an A Series Kit. In addition to the factory loaded LCC's, and the shim calibration (which any authorized Alpa dealer can do), you have the benefit of some longer warranty on the lens and camera body, though the number of warranty repairs we've seen with Alpa tech cameras and Rodenstock 35mm HR lenses is practically none. As well as some branding elements with the A Series.
But pricing is no less than buying the components individually.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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This is not the case at all. The pricing is virtually the same, whether you buy the A series as a kit, or whether you buy them as individual pieces. There is no discounted savings in buying this as an A Series Kit. In addition to the factory loaded LCC's, and the shim calibration (which any authorized Alpa dealer can do), you have the benefit of some longer warranty on the lens and camera body, though the number of warranty repairs we've seen with Alpa tech cameras and Rodenstock 35mm HR lenses is practically none. As well as some branding elements with the A Series.
But pricing is no less than buying the components individually.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
My math (or exchange rate) must have been off.
It's an interesting contrast with our Arca Bundles which DT offers, which are lower in cost than buying separately:
https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/photoplus-specials
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My math (or exchange rate) must have been off.
It's an interesting contrast with our Arca Bundles which DT offers, which are lower in cost than buying separately:
https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/photoplus-specials
I don't see what one has to do with the other, or what's interesting about the "contrast".
Yes, your math was way, way, off.
Steve Hendrix
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I don't see what one has to do with the other, or what's interesting about the "contrast".
Yes, your math was way, way, off.
Steve Hendrix
Fellas, go sit in a corner and do a time out.
Doug you can use the Iphone viewer (click the calculator app) to work on your math and Steve you can look in a Broncolor catalog and FIND ME SOME MORE HMI's.
Seriously when I received the spam, oops sorry, e-mail notice on this camera I viewed it on my phone and I thought cool, Phase finally gets it, "they've build a competitor to the RED Epic.
I hope it autofocuses".
IMO
BC
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Yeah, I really got my hopes up when I saw the headlines.
What I would like Phase to do (And I hope they will) is to create a new body with interchangeable viewfinders and a foldaway mirror. OVF + PDAF for the CCD backs and EVF + CDAF for the CMOS backs. That will be a truly backwards compatible and future proof solution that will make existing and future customers happy.
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At the top of my wish list in case anyone reading, is mirror-less so I can bracket 3 or 5 shots when needed--now I have to do individually since I shoot in the mirror UP mode to minimize vibration. So when the ad said "mirror-less" I got really excited :). Anyway, it looks like a nice setup for sure but appears nothing really new. I'm relieved it's not the waited for Phase One camera--I'm very anxious to see some stats--I volunteer to ALPHA test or at least beta :)
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This is NOT the new Phase One camera. Investment in an entirely new ground-up SLR body is Phase One's highest R+D priority
Doug,
I assume Phase is taking a new camera seriously, but if they go the "old" route of an only optical viewfinder, then they will arrive at the wrong moment.
CMOS allows for mirrorless, heck their could be a mirror up function where mirrorless and optical finders could reside on the same body (and not just the back of the camera).
I was semi joking about the RED, but love em' or hate em' at the time RED built a camera that broke new territory and couldn't be denied and with 3d so important to Hollywood's bottom line in China, the Epics are used in a lot of production, more than most dp's want to admit.
In other words they built a camera that many people needed, rather than just wanted.
There is a big difference.
(And BTW: RED's prices are expensive . . . almost as much as your Phase A series)
IMO
BC
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PhaseOne has been talking about a new SLR for YEARSSSSSS......... :'(
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Doug,
I assume Phase is taking a new camera seriously, but if they go the "old" route of an only optical viewfinder, then they will arrive at the wrong moment.
CMOS allows for mirrorless, heck their could be a mirror up function where mirrorless and optical finders could reside on the same body (and not just the back of the camera).
I was semi joking about the RED, but love em' or hate em' at the time RED built a camera that broke new territory and couldn't be denied and with 3d so important to Hollywood's bottom line in China, the Epics are used in a lot of production, more than most dp's want to admit.
In other words they built a camera that many people needed, rather than just wanted.
There is a big difference.
(And BTW: RED's prices are expensive . . . almost as much as your Phase A series)
IMO
BC
RED is a great of example of what happens when the Will and Money of one man come together to make a great product. Jim Jannard was fed up with the Digital Cinema Industry Marketplace and he had the money, connections and most importantly will and vision to do something about it. And he sure did. The core of his vision was not only making a great, modular digital cinema camera but that it be affordable enough so that indy filmakers could buy it.
That said the Phase One A-Series seems like a really good bundle. I know I know most of you here just cringe at this and look it at it as just a marketing ploy of existing components that anyone can put together but the rigs are very very cool nonetheless.
Regarding the New PhaseOne camera I am sure it will be an SLR style camera since most PhaseOne backs out there are not CMOS.
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I applaud this rock-solid release, as a case of established and mature tech being well combined. Everything here is "obsolete", and it's all useful to its target audience :)
Although I do think that a mini-iPad would be a better "viewfinder". And in fact a much cheaper one than the phone.
As for Red, I think that Sony is going to come in very strongly in the spring with hi-rez and video/stills products that may well break the 50MP barrier in a 35 mm combined stills/video SLR at $4K. I think they will be supplying recording and editing tools as well, now that it looks like they finally "get" UHD.
I'm off to get a GH4, waiting for the future has got to me, and as a journalist I've just realized that video has taken the place of still illustration, as publication has moved to the web .
Edmund
Doug,
I assume Phase is taking a new camera seriously, but if they go the "old" route of an only optical viewfinder, then they will arrive at the wrong moment.
CMOS allows for mirrorless, heck their could be a mirror up function where mirrorless and optical finders could reside on the same body (and not just the back of the camera).
I was semi joking about the RED, but love em' or hate em' at the time RED built a camera that broke new territory and couldn't be denied and with 3d so important to Hollywood's bottom line in China, the Epics are used in a lot of production, more than most dp's want to admit.
In other words they built a camera that many people needed, rather than just wanted.
There is a big difference.
(And BTW: RED's prices are expensive . . . almost as much as your Phase A series)
IMO
BC
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PhaseOne has been talking about a new SLR for YEARSSSSSS......... :'(
Sony went mirrorless, Phase is going bodyless :)
Edmund
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Hi,
I would say it makes a lot of sense for sensors with well working live view. But I don't really see the use for an iPhone on a pancake camera with live view, unless integrated with shutter. (OK, now I understand that it is integrated with the back using WiFi, great!)
Factory shimming makes sense, but should really not be needed with the 0.012 mm tolerance PhaseOne backs are specified to have.
Could I afford, I would buy, with an IQ-250 and with no iPhone, and I would buy from Steve.
Best regards
Erik
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Hi, Doug
Sorry I missed saying hello at PhotoPlus. I saw you in your booth but you were always engaged with customers.
Anyway, regarding the A-Series, do you still need to dappen down the CCD sensors with a 6– or 8– stop ND filter when using LiveView in sunlight?
Roger
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Hi, Doug
Sorry I missed saying hello at PhotoPlus. I saw you in your booth but you were always engaged with customers.
Anyway, regarding the A-Series, do you still need to dappen down the CCD sensors with a 6– or 8– stop ND filter when using LiveView in sunlight?
Roger
The expo was much better attended this year than previous years. We were all pretty surprised. I nearly lost my voice by the end! Sorry I missed you!
Yes. Ccd versions of the a series still need nd filters (or stop down to like f/22) for outdoor live view. The IQ250 version of course has great live view in any light.
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As for Red, I think that Sony is going to come in very strongly in the spring with ...........
........I'm off to get a GH4.
Edmund
Edmund,
Before you talk about Sony eating everyone alive, since RED sold the first affordable 4k camera . . .
Sony has made, or introduced, 5 4k cameras, with multiple lens mounts, one still waiting on a 3rd party 4k recorder, one took 8 to 9 months to receive a proprietary 4k recorder, one not on the shelf.
Sony has closed their computer division, stopped the development/sales of their NLE (Vegas) closed their Sony Stores.
In all this time, tiny RED has only changed form factors once, continued with the same processing suite that gets updated monthly, bought a film studio and opened new stores.
My first RED ones still shoot as well as any modern camera, given the fact that they came out of the box shooting 4k, 444, with 12/14 bits. The first R1's can still use the same SSD media, viewfinders and lcds as the newest.
In other words the Epic did not exactly obsolete the R1.
Yea, Sony can obviously make anything. Sticking with a strategy seems to be more difficult for them.'
But you know this, or you would be buying a Sony instead of a little panasonic.
IMO
BC
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J,
Everything you say about Red is correct. They identified the target buyer's needs, designed the best feasible product to meet them, shipped, and stayed the course with a single-minded focus.
The Panasonic is because I need something I can hold in *my own* little hands and use with no fuss in a single-user or two man crew; I did a quick test and for my usage, when no long zoom is needed, the only real issue with the Panasonic is the baked-in WB, but of course you know that too ...
I don't know why there is no raw-shooting 4K super-35 camcorder out there at a reasonable price point. There must be a reason but I can't figure it out. I would sell all my stills kit and buy the Sony FS7 in a minute if it did Raw to card internally, rather than needing a bulky extension and an external recorder that turns it into a monster. All non-camcorder solutions tune into octopus solutions usable with a crew, but not for ENG. No normal human being wants to walk around with an SLR in a cage with a strapped on viewfinder and an external recorder and enough cables to use to dry one's washing.
Edmund
Edmund,
But you know this, or you would be buying a Sony instead of a little panasonic.
IMO
BC
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J,
Everything you say about Red is correct. They identified the target buyer's needs, designed the best feasible product to meet them, shipped, and stayed the course with a single-minded focus.
Thats what you get thx to autocratic design and vision/focus. Jim J took the bull by the horns and just did it with (i am sure) a lot of big companies rooting against him. He gave them the finger and continued on. He had enough money and complete control.
Too bad he was not interested (or at least fully committed) in Medium Format Digital.
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Thats what you get thx to autocratic design and vision/focus. Jim J took the bull by the horns and just did it with (i am sure) a lot of big companies rooting against him. He gave them the finger and continued on. He had enough money and complete control.
Too bad he was not interested (or at least fully committed) in Medium Format Digital.
Too bad he dropped the first Scarlet project and never made a usable prosumer product for "soccer moms" :)
The japanese firms could miniaturize the RED system nicely if they were not in NIH mode.
Edmund
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Too bad he was not interested (or at least fully committed) in Medium Format Digital.
Actually he was...I don't know what he uses now but at the time (5-6 years ago) he was using Aptus 75 backs on ALPA and Mamiya RZ cameras...
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http://petapixel.com/2014/11/13/phase-ones-new-mirrorless-medium-format-system-nothing-new-stop-freaking/
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The hipster photobloggers freaking out over the mirror less nomenclature was hilarious though.
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While I applaud closer collaboration between these manufacturers, it seems this "release" offers nothing noteworthy, at least not in my mind. Now, if it had of been an SWA that communicated shift measurements to the back to aid in automatic LCC, and / or dedicated EVF that would have been different.
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The inclusion of "mirror less" in the product name is weird because view cameras (which is what the components of this camera most resemble, in my opinion) do not have mirrors.
The nomenclature should more accurately feature the words "shift-less" and "tilt-less". I think it is also bellow-less because of the use of lenses with (I guess 'cos I have not seen a front view of an A-Series setup) helicoid focusing in the lens mounting.
So, what you end up with is a compact view-type camera with no movements. It might suit some.
I, for example have CCD digital back which I use with a Linhof Techno outfit and a Hasselblad SLR outfit. If I could use my view camera lenses on a body like the A-Series "body" with a good CMOS-type Liveview, I would sell my Hasselblad SLR outfit. I would need bellows in the body to focus.
Therefore, I would not end up with an arrangement as compact as the A-Series but still more compact than a Techno for those times when I do not need movements.
Roger
The hipster photobloggers freaking out over the mirror less nomenclature was hilarious though.
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Phase One could skip a lot of development time and money by getting into the Hy6….
Just saying….
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We really need a Like button!
Phase One could skip a lot of development time and money by getting into the Hy6….
Just saying….
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It seems one of the dealers had jumped the gun. I was asked to add this to the thread from Phase One . . .
Letter from Phase One
While product teams have been hard at work preparing the new A-series camera systems for market, Phase One and ALPA are happy to see such interest based on the early news shared by some of our U.S. partners. We regret any confusion, including the fact that the photo was of an internal prototype and not the finished product, but official images and more details will soon be on the way.
These new products are the first step in a long-term strategic & cooperative alliance between Phase One and ALPA that was announced at Photokina. Developing premium products for the world’s most demanding fine art photographers is our focus, and the A-series by Phase One and ALPA is taking the first steps in a creative new direction to integrate some of the highest performing and proven products -- across lenses, bodies, digital backs and software -- to make them easier and even more fun to use.
Below are the key highlights:
1 -- As noted, the A-series will be available in three versions: A250, A260 and A280 with 50MP, 60MP and 80MP respectively.
2 -- Each system will be individually configured with pre-loaded lens calibrations for Rodenstock ALPA 23mm, 35mm and 70mm lenses, making it easy to shoot great looking images out of the box.
3 -- Factory shimmed system marked with A-series badges on both body and back.
4 -- All systems will come with the required accessories -- including some new elements made specifically for this system, e.g. flexible lens shades, iPhone holder and new release cable.
5 -- A 5-year warranty on the system.
6 -- A special note on wifi: Phase One IQ250 camera systems have recently started supporting liveview over wi-fi using Capture Pilot 1.7 (which is already available for download to all IQ250 users). Liveview over wi-fi will also be a cool new feature for the CMOS based A250 using an upcoming 1.8 release.
Thanks for the patience. In December we will share even more details on the new systems including the new factory lens calibration feature, accessories, detailed tech specs, product images, pricing and even better, they will begin shipping!
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Kevin Raber
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(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_myX5Q4qMDhY/TDjRIzu_S8I/AAAAAAAAFNo/L1JC-rLkT8w/s400/toto-exposes-oz.jpg)
Letter from Phase One.....snip......Thanks for the patience.
Kevin,
I know you have Phase One connections and it's appreciated, but this kind of communication kind of creeps me out in 2014.
A small sized company sending a publisher a release to be posted on an internet forum.
Let's be honest, Phase One isn't a huge corporation and it would take nothing for one of their principles to respond to this or any thread.
How hard is it to sign up?
It's kind of like BP talking through their law firm on the courthouse steps and is so 2001.
Our studios receives a lot of consumer data from clients before we go into concept.
One thing that stands out over and over is the consumer doesn't buy the old behind the curtain process.
Where a company massages a message then talks through a third party.
Today people want direct information from the person that made it, or designed it or is responsible for it. (whatever it is).
They want to know who is responsible and the real facts, not the PR.
Then again I don't understand this camera. I think it looks kind of cool, but what does it do?
It doesn't shift, it doesn't tilt, it's got to be a pain to focus and how does the wi-fi talk from the camera to the phone without a router or computer?
Phase has always been strange in their public dealings, but this camera seems to be either a dealer that jumped the gun or is it a publicity move?
But did the dealer jump the gun? There has always been rumors that DT and Phase had a very "close" relationship and all the sites never said made by DT, they said
New Phase One mirrorless camera.
Is it really new, or even mirrorless?
I mean this stuff has been out there for a while and it looks like someone said, hey we got a back, we got a lens holder, we got a lens.
Let's put it together take a photo and call it a camera.
That will keep the buzz up until we come up with a real camera.
Either way, the world has changed and we all know that until it's on a shelf, someone uses it, finds the issues and reports it, few if any buyer will give it attention, much less pull out a credit card.
IMO
BC
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BC I don't think we were the target audience for the A series announcement / release.
To us the word "mirrorless" camera has many many implications that obviously the A series does not meet. For other people it might make sense for us, not so much since most of us here are already familiar with the different tech camera options including bodies and lenses. I guess for someone who doesnt want to or doesnt know anything and does not wants to deal with becoming knowledgeable in tech camera systems these camera/lens/back bundles make a lot of sense.
That is what they are, a package of mostly existing components that work well together and are backed by PhaseOne. That is a good thing. But I think the nomenclature and marketing by PhaseOne was not handled well at all for the more educated or should I say "sophisticated" clientele. Does not mean at all the product is bad, that is not nearly the case. Not even in question. On the contrary.
The IQ backs are superb backs and a joy to work with and the Rodenstock lenses are really some of the best lenses ever made in ANY format.
The packages look cool and Im sure can be used to produce spectacular images.
Regarding a new PhaseOne SLR camera body. It is long overdue, not because the DF+ is horrible, but because the IQ backs are more advanced that the body. Would be cool if the body at least matched the IQ Chassis which is superb.
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bcooter -
I don't get the "I don't understand this camera" comment.
Quite simply, this is a package built from existing off-the-shelf components.
What's there to understand?
Regarding focusing, with the 250 back, focusing will be just fine using live view.
Regarding wifi, this is nothing new - the back creates an ad-hoc network that the iPhone connects to.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
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Phase can market how they wish. It's their company.
But you know that something got lost when you have to come back and say what we mean is . . .
Anyway, the days of third party talk are over. When your dropping nice car money for anything, you want direct response for the people involved at the base.
In regards to the camera, what I don't understand is no shift. If your spending for a tech cam, why not just add the shift?
Because without shift it's just a slow moving still camera, I don't care how good the lenses are.
IMO
BC
bcooter -
I don't get the "I don't understand this camera" comment.
Quite simply, this is a package built from existing off-the-shelf components.
What's there to understand?
Regarding focusing, with the 250 back, focusing will be just fine using live view.
Regarding wifi, this is nothing new - the back creates an ad-hoc network that the iPhone connects to.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
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I agree 100% with you regarding the marketing cock-up on the release, and how Phase One have dealt with it.
Regarding the camera, what you're basically saying is you don't understand the point of the ALPA TC.
Well, that's pretty simple really - it's a tiny 220g camera than enables the use of tech lenses with digital backs. What's not to love about that? I'm sure plenty of people are very happy to use the camera when they're out and about and neither want nor require movements.
It just seems such a bizarre thing to complain about - it's not like there aren't options available if you want/need movements.
It's interesting that one of the things Phase One are clearly putting quite a bit of effort into with this camera is the LCC library integrated into the back. That is something that is relatively simple to deliver with this camera precisely because it doesn't have movements. Who knows - perhaps in time there will be more cameras in this series, and that ALPA will introduce some electronics into their cameras to digitally record the amount of movement used and pass that information to the back to process with the LCC algorithm. Seems a logical development to me, but clearly would take a lot more work.
I reckon we'll be seeing Phase One put this camera in the hands of a top street photographer who will demonstrate with their photography why it's such a compelling proposition for them. Personally, I have all the components of this camera already, except for the iPhone holder, and I'm very much looking forward to trying it out once I can get my hands on that.
Kind regards,
Gerald.
Phase can market how they wish. It's their company.
But you know that something got lost when you have to come back and say what we mean is . . .
Anyway, the days of third party talk are over. When your dropping nice car money for anything, you want direct response for the people involved at the base.
In regards to the camera, what I don't understand is no shift. If your spending for a tech cam, why not just add the shift?
Because without shift it's just a slow moving still camera, I don't care how good the lenses are.
IMO
BC
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One can only assume that this is the first product of a series of products and that Phase / Alpa are working on the integration of the components, such that with, for example the STC, there is some communication that allows automatic LCCs WITH movements. First use the back to programme the lens and working aperture (or use a shutter unit that also communicates aperture), then an electrical connection communicates movements. Sounds great to me, if they pull it off.
Pity DT jumped the gun here, as it's brought about confusion about some aspects of the package, particularly the in back LCC setup.
Personally, I couldn't care less about the iPhone holding gimmick. I'd want just the camera, lens and back.
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I don't know why there is no raw-shooting 4K super-35 camcorder out there at a reasonable price point. There must be a reason but I can't figure it out. I would sell all my stills kit and buy the Sony FS7
You got your wish and you don't have to buy Sony.
Super 35mm, uhd (almost 4k) free software and a real cine camera, that shoots dng raw and proress. (You'll probably shoot proress cause it's good and thick and grades beautiful).
http://www.photocineshop.com/en/products/Blackmagic-Production-Camera-4K-PL-BJ3UJH
$2700 Euros inc. VAT (man you guys pay a lot of taxes) and you can get it in an active EF mount which means with two lenses the Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 for around 500 euros and a 70 to 200 2.8 for whatever you can find used, you get stabilization with lenses, a touch screen.
A small cage, a tascam maybe a goldline battery for power and for around 6,500 eurobucks including lenses you could shoot a movie and nobody would complain.
The blackmagic really shoots a beautiful file and this camera has a global shutter so no jello.
Think of it as a RED scarlet, or Amira for 1/5th to 1/10th the price. Now that's worth announcing.
(https://images.blackmagicdesign.com/media/products/cinemacameras/uses/intro.jpg)
It's not automatic, you'll need two nd faders, but this is a deal and a no excuses camera, except it needs a lot of light.
Actually, (heres where I contradict myself, I'd scrap the whole 4k thing and just buy a c100 mark 2. Great low light, autofocus and will last you about a billion years.
If you shoot sharp, shoot crisp, few humans can tell the difference between 4k and 2k if your post is good.
It's an 8 bit 420 camera to a card, 10 bit through hdmi, but you can one man band this camera and get good results in almost any light.
Canon may be slow on the draw offering 4k, but they've got 2k down tight.
IMO
BC
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A little off topic, but, the BMCC (2.5K MFT mount) enlarges pretty well to 4K FLAT (1.85:1 ratio, 3996x2160 DCP standard), which is my favorite frame size.
The 4K BMPC has more pixels, global shutter, compressed DNG, while the 2.5K has more dynamic range, amazing highlight rolloff, uncompressed DNG, enlarges pretty nicely, and can be converted to S35 with the speedbooster.
The motion cadence of all Blackmagic cameras is incredible. I prefer the look of the motion, even over an Alexa.
Blackmagic looks like pure cinema, despite the negative aspects of the cameras/sensors. Just IMO.
Okay, back on topic about some stupid $40,000 camera or something...
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Phase One seems to be incapable of producing a new MF body. The new "A" is nothing more than overpriced Alpa components. I've been told by my local Phase distributor that they (Phase One) get most of their revenue by licensing their technology and patents to other technology manufacturers. Very little of their profits (if any) come from their sales of digital backs. I don't know if this is true, I have no way of verifying it, but Phase One's inability to produce a camera body on par with their digital backs leads me to suspect that they are in no hurry to replace their awful MF Mamiya bodies.
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Phase One seems to be incapable of producing a new MF body. The new "A" is nothing more than overpriced Alpa components. I've been told by my local Phase distributor that they (Phase One) get most of their revenue by licensing their technology and patents to other technology manufacturers. Very little of their profits (if any) come from their sales of digital backs. I don't know if this is true, I have no way of verifying it, but Phase One's inability to produce a camera body on par with their digital backs leads me to suspect that they are in no hurry to replace their awful MF Mamiya bodies.
Not to doubt you but what technology would they be licensing? Outwardly Phase One seems to be pretty limited to digital backs and their software neither of which I believe are sold under any other brand. I for one wish there was a Credo 50 class back being sold as licensed technology by another company at a more affordable price.
Being such a closed and private company, it's hard to know much about Phase One.
Paul
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Phase One seems to be incapable of producing a new MF body. The new "A" is nothing more than overpriced Alpa components. I've been told by my local Phase distributor that they (Phase One) get most of their revenue by licensing their technology and patents to other technology manufacturers. Very little of their profits (if any) come from their sales of digital backs. I don't know if this is true, I have no way of verifying it, but Phase One's inability to produce a camera body on par with their digital backs leads me to suspect that they are in no hurry to replace their awful MF Mamiya bodies.
Replace "Phase" with "Canon" and "Body" with "Sensor" and that post still makes perfect sense!
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Phase One seems to be incapable of producing a new MF body. The new "A" is nothing more than overpriced Alpa components. I've been told by my local Phase distributor that they (Phase One) get most of their revenue by licensing their technology and patents to other technology manufacturers. Very little of their profits (if any) come from their sales of digital backs. I don't know if this is true, I have no way of verifying it, but Phase One's inability to produce a camera body on par with their digital backs leads me to suspect that they are in no hurry to replace their awful MF Mamiya bodies.
I'm gonna disagree and say that I believe they are capable. ;)
The pricing of the Alpa components in the A Series Package is no different than the pricing that these components normally cost, so I have to disagree also with your statement they are "overpriced".
Phase One has a significant amount of technological prowess, and I am sure some of it gets licensed to various vertical markets. Whether this forms the majority of their revenues I am skeptical of, but in any case, I doubt highly that their digital backs do not produce a profit, and aren't designed as an important, perhaps even the most important element in the profitability of the company.
It's true, the new body has been anticipated for at least several years now, but I do believe the time is coming. If it is a substantial improvement, it will be worth the wait for many.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Hi,
Regarding if Phase One is capable of designing a camera or not it is something that we will see, when (or if) the new camera will be released.
Personally, I would imagine that Phase One is designing a mirrorless camera. Our friend BC indicates that is there the future is. But Phase One would not release such a camera until we have a new generation of EVFs available and full size CMOS sensors are around. That is of course just speculation.
I very much doubt that Phase One would make it earnings from intellectual property. They actually base their technology on sensors developed by Kodak, DALSA and Sony. Now all the modern backs with the exception of the IQ-250 use technology from DALSA (which once used to be Philips), the main reason that Phase switched from Kodak to DALSA may have been that DALSA allowed Phase One to codevelop sensors, resulting in Sensor+ and also the new IQ-260 sensor with it's long exposure capability.
I would say that A-series makes some sense, if nothing else it got Doug into marketing Alpa, AFAIK DT used to be an Arca dealer. Basically, matching and adjusting camera and back makes some sense. Pentax mentions it as one of the reasons for having an integrated camera and Hasselblad mainly sells it's cameras as body/back combination.
That said, I would guess that tolerances may be overrated. The CoC introduced by say 42 micron misalignment would be 7.5 microns at f/5.6 enough to reduce sharpness a bit on a 5.2 micron sensor with the best lenses, but just stopping down to f/8 would reduce that CoC to 5.2 microns.
The 42 microns are assuming 30 micron tolerances on camera (Hasselblad V-series specifications) and 12 microns on sensor (Phase One specfications AFAIK), in all probability the tolerances would not add up.
Thermal expansion coefficients for both magnesium and aluminium are in the range of 22-25 microns/celsius meter. So if we assume a body 5 cm long it will change length about 1 micron per degree. So operating between say 0 and 40 degrees would cause a shift of around 44-50 microns. (Well adjusting at 20C it would give +/- 23 microns, predictably).
Best regards
Erik
I'm gonna disagree and say that I believe they are capable. ;)
The pricing of the Alpa components in the A Series Package is no different than the pricing that these components normally cost, so I have to disagree also with your statement they are "overpriced".
Phase One has a significant amount of technological prowess, and I am sure some of it gets licensed to various vertical markets. Whether this forms the majority of their revenues I am skeptical of, but in any case, I doubt highly that their digital backs do not produce a profit, and aren't designed as an important, perhaps even the most important element in the profitability of the company.
It's true, the new body has been anticipated for at least several years now, but I do believe the time is coming. If it is a substantial improvement, it will be worth the wait for many.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Steve, you're correct, poor choice of words on my part. I should have said "expensive" Alpa parts rather than "overpriced". I didn't mean to imply that Phase One was charging more for the Alpa components. Alpa produces excellent products. I am disappointed that the "new" A camera isn't new at all, not that I could justify purchasing the hypothetical new camera right now anyway.
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I think PhaseOne is in a bind regarding the new SLR Camera Body. Every month that goes by the expectation increases so it is HIGHLY probable that once it is released it will disappoint. It would need to be so good, given how long it has taken to come to light, that it most likely won't meet the expectation of at least most of us forum folk.
Also, in the meantime, other camera manufacturers are improving their cameras as well. So the camera landscape will be different once it is released. (A higher resolution Nikon and or Canon might be likely, also the 645z is already out but expect more lenses and maybe an improved 645z II in a few years).
Of course all this has nothing to do with how good the new PhaseOne body will be. It might be great but as time goes by it would need to be better and better or else it might be a tough sell to new customers although existing ones will most likely love it.
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I don't believe a new body is a huge priority for Phase One.
Phase One/Leaf already has (most of) the tech cam users and (most of) the H1/H2/H4X/H5X/Contax 645/Hy6/Mamiya shooters.
Perhaps with a better body it could convince some (integrated) Hasselblad/Leica/Pentax shooters but probably not that many either.
To convince DSLR users the price difference is too significant.
All in all a huge investment for probably not that much additional revenue.
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I don't believe a new body is a huge priority for Phase One.
Phase One/Leaf already has (most of) the tech cam users and (most of) the H1/H2/H4X/H5X/Contax 645/Hy6/Mamiya shooters.
Perhaps with a better body it could convince some (integrated) Hasselblad/Leica/Pentax shooters but probably not that many either.
To convince DSLR users the price difference is too significant.
All in all a huge investment for probably not that much additional revenue.
Perhaps true on backs, but lots of money left on the table on SLR lenses. i for one, use a tech cam with an IQ back and use a bunch of D800/E's for SLR needs. I would think I'm not alone here. I would certainly prefer a single solution with my IQ180 for both cases, i.e., tech cam and a nice SLR body with the current SK lenses. Also, I don't think it is a low priority for them, I just think that sat around long enough that whatever they release will need to be quite compelling. Whatever it is, I'm sure I'll still want more :)
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My only fear regarding the new body is that they come out with something that is only compatible with CMOS backs -- EVF, mirrorless, LV etc. This would not be new to Phase as they did this for LS lens compatibility going from the AFDIII to the DF. A lot of people would not be pleased, but this would explain why it has take ages for this to happen.
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I don't believe a new body is a huge priority for Phase One.
Phase One/Leaf already has (most of) the tech cam users and (most of) the H1/H2/H4X/H5X/Contax 645/Hy6/Mamiya shooters.
Perhaps with a better body it could convince some (integrated) Hasselblad/Leica/Pentax shooters but probably not that many either.
To convince DSLR users the price difference is too significant.
All in all a huge investment for probably not that much additional revenue.
I believe the new body is a really important component for Phase One in the growth of their platform. While tech camera purchases are substantial, the majority of Phase One or Leaf purchasers don't use them, instead exclusively relying on a medium format platform of some sort - Mamiya 645/Hasselblad H/Contax/Hasselblad V...
Regardless of the revenue increase it would provide, it is an essential element in maintaining existing clients as well as luring future ones. Phase One faces competition like all companies do, and competitors don't stand still.
I believe the additional time it is taking Phase One is an indication that they do take it very seriously, and that the new camera is not just another warmed up version of the previous camera. I don't see it as vapor-ware, I (perhaps hopefully) see it as taking the time to get it right. I agree with Ken that the extended time will potentially allow the bar to be raised from competitive products and that the expectation level for a product that has been anticipated for so long sets up a scenario that is bound to disappoint some. From Phase One's standpoint, I see nothing to do but continue to work on delivering the best possible camera that they can - if it's a successful product with a clear advantage over the current offering, many users and potential users will be pleased, regardless of the expectation.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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What is interesting to me is all the talk of mirrorless and EVF.
I can't see that happening without all new lenses as the current ones are designed around a mirror box. As I see it a tech lens would work better than the Phase One 645 glass.
Maybe they will make an adapter that somehow couples and allows for current glass to work if they do come out with the body in a mirrorless design.
What I would love to see is a IQ with a tilt LCD. I don't think the new body will have any LCD as in the past the LCD of the back has been used. Working in the field and trying to get low to the ground or just working in certain setups many times I have wished for a screen the is movable.
If Sony goes ahead with the rumored 50MP range finder MF camera then possibly some of the design will carry over.
Sadly I am sure when the new body is ready it will come with a hefty cost. Just as the DF+ does now at 5k (rounding up the last 5 dollars)
Paul
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Paul,
As I mentioned in a previous post, an interchangeable viewfinder system will cater to both CCD and CMOS users.
Attach the OVF with a prism inside and the mirror stays put. Attach an Evf and the mirror swings away, allowing live view and contrast detect AF off the sensor.
This would be the ideal solution that will support all customers and I hope it will be the case.
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If they can't bring themselves to support the Hy6 and must make a new mirrorless camera it would be great if it supported the Leaf Afi/ Rolleiflex lenses.
I don't see why they want to build camera bodies the money is in making lenses and backs.
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I guess Sinar was ahead of it's time:
http://www.matrix.cz/profifoto/PDFS/sinar_m_e.pdf
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I guess Sinar was ahead of it's time:
http://www.matrix.cz/profifoto/PDFS/sinar_m_e.pdf
In some ways, yes they were. And it's also an example that a product that brings desirable features to market is no guarantee of the long term survival of that product. During a free day on our Alpa trip, Anthony Festa and I stopped in to Sinar (about a 15 minute train ride from Alpa), and spent some time with Daniela and some of the fascinating products Sinar has produced over the years, including the Sam!, the Sinar Handy, Xcatch, and of course, our friend the AFi/Hy6.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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What happened to the Phase One A Series? On the main Phase One site, I cannot find any mention of the A series under cameras, or products. In fact a site search comes up with nothing. Did Phase One pull the date back, if so I must have missed this.
Paul
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Perhaps it was just a bad dream...
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Perhaps it was just a bad dream...
Out of phase with reality?
Edmund
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That fuzzy feeling? Thinking of audio test CDs.
Best regards
Erik
Out of phase with reality?
Edmund
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It's now officially on the Phase One site, and of all places Dpreview has a article with the listed pricing.
Paul
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Yes the A-Series are back on the Digital Transition website as well.
They should be marketed as luxury items IMHO. They are perfect for people who do not want or like to do much tinkering with gear and want a simple solution that works right out of the box and is warranted as a unit.
Image quality should be superb and they are VERY light and compact systems compared to even 35mm DSLRs.
I still think there is a bit of redundancy when using an iPhone with the IQ backs since the screen on the IQ backs is so good I really do not see much need to use the iPhone as a viewer.
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That fuzzy feeling? Thinking of audio test CDs.
Best regards
Erik
Erik,
You mean this (https://www.youtube.com/user/GentleWhispering) ?
Edmund
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If you could capture directly while in Live View, I could see the benefit with the new Alpa adjustable iPhone Holder.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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If you could capture directly while in Live View, I could see the benefit with the new Alpa adjustable iPhone Holder.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
Steve, it is a considerable improvement over the LCD on the camera, as it's a fixed display. The 1st year of my use with the 160, I was constantly impressed with the 160 LCD, but I also realized I was starting to change a lot in my photography. Net, I was adjusting my shooting style to the position of the LCD. The LCD is most important to a tech shooter, with a CCD back. I found that low to ground shots which I like I just was not taking, due to the issues with getting down to see the screen.
Ken's information on tethering did change this for me, as when tethered, you can at least back off from being down low and cramped once the shot is setup, unlike before. But the use of the iPhone for Live View is great IMO as the photographer now has a waist level finder or any level finder available. You can position the iPhone to allow no direct sunlight, and you could remove it totally if you want to and just use the Live View feed. Sadly this only applies to the CMOS back with wifi, the 250, but I guess it's a start.
It's all a matter of individual shooting styles, and age. If I was still in my mid 30's I would still be able to get down and arrange my body into a position that allowed me to see the screen, but not any more. That's what age will do.
There are some nice improvements here, the auto LCC calibration to me is great if the LCC is applied in the shot process, still not sure on how that all works. To me the single biggest issue of the tech solution is the lagging LCC frame, and the additional processing time it takes and just remembering to shoot it in similar conditions.
However if one is to take this plunge, I would want movements and you only get those with the STC and above as I understand Alpa's cameras. So it may have a limited market, since there is no way to upgrade a TC to STC that I know of. If Phase had offered the STC as the base camera then that might have been more impressive, but that would mean different lenses as the HR's all only have a 70mm image circle, and the LCC in camera would be non possible since everyone's movements would be different just a bit.
Paul
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Steve, it is a considerable improvement over the LCD on the camera, as it's a fixed display. The 1st year of my use with the 160, I was constantly impressed with the 160 LCD, but I also realized I was starting to change a lot in my photography. Net, I was adjusting my shooting style to the position of the LCD. The LCD is most important to a tech shooter, with a CCD back. I found that low to ground shots which I like I just was not taking, due to the issues with getting down to see the screen.
Ken's information on tethering did change this for me, as when tethered, you can at least back off from being down low and cramped once the shot is setup, unlike before. But the use of the iPhone for Live View is great IMO as the photographer now has a waist level finder or any level finder available. You can position the iPhone to allow no direct sunlight, and you could remove it totally if you want to and just use the Live View feed. Sadly this only applies to the CMOS back with wifi, the 250, but I guess it's a start.
It's all a matter of individual shooting styles, and age. If I was still in my mid 30's I would still be able to get down and arrange my body into a position that allowed me to see the screen, but not any more. That's what age will do.
There are some nice improvements here, the auto LCC calibration to me is great if the LCC is applied in the shot process, still not sure on how that all works. To me the single biggest issue of the tech solution is the lagging LCC frame, and the additional processing time it takes and just remembering to shoot it in similar conditions.
However if one is to take this plunge, I would want movements and you only get those with the STC and above as I understand Alpa's cameras. So it may have a limited market, since there is no way to upgrade a TC to STC that I know of. If Phase had offered the STC as the base camera then that might have been more impressive, but that would mean different lenses as the HR's all only have a 70mm image circle, and the LCC in camera would be non possible since everyone's movements would be different just a bit.
Paul
It's certainly (I presume) only a starting point for the collaboration, and beginning with the TC makes sense since they can add some value via the embedded LCC's. Though I feel there will be fallout that will find it's way to other Phase and/or Alpa owners (from both Phase and Alpa, the new iPhone Holder being just one of them).
But using the TC with a 23mm and being able to use the iPhone as a WLF and being able to capture directly from live view would be excellent, since most everything would be in focus anyway, you would just compose and click. So...almost there.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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I assumed the iPhone holder would be offered to existing Alpa customers? Only makes sense. There are a lot of them out there. I am hoping that Arca is seeing this and working on something similar to be in position when the next gen of CMOS sensors comes out.
Paul
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Maybe they will make an adapter that somehow couples and allows for current glass to work if they do come out with the body in a mirrorless design.
Can you imagine the outrage if they don't make such an adapter?
Nah, knowing Phase's capacity for milking margins from relatively simple accessories, this mirrorless body will be launched along with a bunch of (pricey) lens adapters. Third parties like Fotodiox will quickly fill the void if they don't.
I also expect them to steal the lunch of the Hartblei HCam and Alpa FPS, and go after the users of 35mm format lenses with large image circles, like some of the T/S lenses.
I'm looking forward to seeing what emerges anyway.
Ray
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Remember only 1 camera can really use this feature, the IQ250 via wifi and Capture Pilot. The A280 and A260 can't do it, and odd's are never will due to the CCD. So the need is not that great now, but as you point out will grow in the future.
Paul
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During a free day on our Alpa trip, Anthony Festa and I stopped in to Sinar (about a 15 minute train ride from Alpa), and spent some time with Daniela and some of the fascinating products Sinar has produced over the years, including the Sam!, the Sinar Handy, Xcatch, and of course, our friend the AFi/Hy6.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
(http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=95095.0;attach=114235;image)
Hmmm. What are two Kodakified Nikons doing on the "Sinar Goodies Shelf", in between the venerable Sinarcam and the Sinar M?
Ray
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One looks like the old Kodak 760 6MP camera, but not sure can't tell from size, but for sure in that series of cameras. They had one that took the top end Nikon film body, and one that took the top in Canon film body, I briefly had both. Those were the days!!
Paul
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Yeah, it's one of the Kodak DCS 620/660/720/760 line. I picked up a Kodak DCS720x a few years back. Just to see. I loved the F5 handling and interchangeable viewfinder, but the 2MP CMY files sucked by modern standards...and it had the worst dark noise I have ever witnessed in a sensor!
Ray
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I was able to pick up a 760, (right before Canon came out with the 1ds MKI which changed everything for a while). I agree, the Nikon body was excellent. The Kodak sensor was base iso to maybe 2 stops, just like modern CCD medium format. The color was excellent and the files had a lot of detail for the 6mp as there was no AA filter on the 760. You can add one as I remember. Biggest issue was the batteries. They were hard to find, and didn't last long being older Nicad or maybe even Nimh, but either way they did not have a long life or work well in cold weather. I had been using the Nikon D2x (which had the really strange Sony chip that gave it a non standard native resolution). This was where Qimage came along and created a 12MP file as I remember from the D2x chip (native 6MP) by working out a neat interpolation process. The 760 had a much better starting file as it was standard 3:2 and had much more in the details.
Paul
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Hmmm. What are two Kodakified Nikons doing on the "Sinar Goodies Shelf", in between the venerable Sinarcam and the Sinar M?
Ray
You know Ray, I can't really remember. We talked about it. There was a Nikon adapter for the SinarCam and also a Leica adapter. My Sinar time was at the tail end of the SinarCam period, but one of my demo kits had the Leica 35-80 zoom lens in it for the SinarCam.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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I assumed the iPhone holder would be offered to existing Alpa customers?
It is described in the brochure http://www.phaseone.com/~/media/Phase%20One/0-Front-page/A-series-brochure.ashx as the "ALPA Smart Device Holder", with the claim that "it is also possible to mount both iPhones and iPads directly on the camera", and an iPhone is not included. So it seems that:
- The holder is officially an ALPA product, not a Phase One one, so is likely available separately for owners of ALPA bodies ... if the software is usable.
- It can hold iPads as well as iPhones, increasing the potential advantage over the back's rear-sceen, and offering an an even more "digital view camera" experience. I wonder if it can it handle a full-sized iPad Air, or only an iPad mini? (Imagine the complaints if the design lead time had meant that it only works with the iPhone 5 form factor and could not be used with the new larger iPhone models! It would be as if Leica were to sell rebadged previous-generation Olympus accessory EVFs at inflated prices for use on its digital M cameras.)
- It probably works with an iPod Touch too; using iOS seems to be the constraint.
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It is described in the brochure http://www.phaseone.com/~/media/Phase%20One/0-Front-page/A-series-brochure.ashx as the "ALPA Smart Device Holder", with the claim that "it is also possible to mount both iPhones and iPads directly on the camera", and an iPhone is not included. So it seems that:
- The holder is officially an ALPA product, not a Phase One one, so is likely available separately for owners of ALPA bodies ... if the software is usable.
- It can hold iPads as well as iPhones, increasing the potential advantage over the back's rear-sceen, and offering an an even more "digital view camera" experience. I wonder if it can it handle a full-sized iPad Air, or only an iPad mini? (Imagine the complaints if the design lead time had meant that it only works with the iPhone 5 form factor and could not be used with the new larger iPhone models! It would be as if Leica were to sell rebadged previous-generation Olympus accessory EVFs at inflated prices for use on its digital M cameras.)
- It probably works with an iPod Touch too; using iOS seems to be the constraint.
This is correct.
The new product will have the ability to mount a variety of devices in various sizes.
During my recent visit with Alpa, they brought out a prototype of the new iPhone Holder and showed us some of the various device adapters.
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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The A Series announcement was something that we have been internally considering for some time, as there was the perception of some smoke and mirror, and also facts were not being made readily available. This is why we have not jumped in with both feet until now, when we feel there now exists some clarity.
As a Phase One and Alpa dealer, we offer our perspective for the A series products below:
https://captureintegration.com/capture-integration-and-the-phase-one-a-series-camera-system/
Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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Thx for the clarification on the A-Series.
It is obviously a really nice but very expensive piece of gear so most value oriented photographers (the grand majority of posters on this and other forums) really shunned right away at the A-Series and pounded on the camera (rig) and the (initial) marketing effort. Discussions never really got to the point of discussing the merits of the Alpa/PhaseOne A series effort or if they did they got lost in between the dozens and dozens of negative posts. Obviously the A Series is not a high value item so the initial reaction of most forum posters was no surprise.
That said I find the A series a very cool solution.
If I had mucho dinero to invest more in gear (not the case unfortunately) I can see myself using the A series with the IQ260 and the 23mm lens as my main interior photography tool. On interior photo projects I basically use my 14mm lens glued to my DSLR. I tend to move about quickly from space to space getting all the angles the client wants / needs. The A series would provide a smaller and lighter setup of MUCH higher quality from capture to the finished file with minimal post production. Ideally would be much nicer to have a CMOS back with the sensor size of the 260 but that is not available (yet :) ).
For landscapes the 35mm or the 70mm would be preferable and one could get wider shots by stitching (I tend to shoot MUCH less when making landscape images than when on interior / arch photo jobs so stitching is not that inconvenient in that case). Again, the small size and light weight is really nice when hiking/backpacking. The IQ250 would be a great choice in those situations due to the much better battery life.
Of course for those who like and don't mind to do a lot of tinkering with their gear and want a better value the A series is not for them. But for those who want a more integrated, compact and light MFD solution the A series is a very cool product and on the right track.
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I just don't see the big deal.
This is not a SLR, due to the lenses and copal shutters you can't shoot handheld using live view on the back, this is not even a true twin reflex camera where both lenses are so close the differences in perspective would not matter a whole lot.
Basically we have a super watered downed tech camera with no movements and a view finder that's only advantage over the Arca viewfinder (or whatever) is that it is an iPhone. You are still going to only get an approximate view of what you are shooting handheld. To get an exact view, you would need to use a tripod and use live view on the back. But if you are going this route, why not just get the whole package and buy a tech camera with movements?
This looks like an afterthought idea of what can we put together that does not involve any real R&D. The only why this makes sense is if Phase releases a back that allows you to shoot in live view mode and, at the same time, releases leaf shutters that allows for this as well.
Not to mention it's not an Arca. ;D
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I just don't see the big deal.
This is not a SLR, due to the lenses and copal shutters you can't shoot handheld using live view on the back, this is not even a true twin reflex camera where both lenses are so close the differences in perspective would not matter a whole lot.
Basically we have a super watered downed tech camera with no movements and a view finder that's only advantage over the Arca viewfinder (or whatever) is that it is an iPhone. You are still going to only get an approximate view of what you are shooting handheld. To get an exact view, you would need to use a tripod and use live view on the back. But if you are going this route, why not just get the whole package and buy a tech camera with movements?
This looks like an afterthought idea of what can we put together that does not involve any real R&D. The only why this makes sense is if Phase releases a back that allows you to shoot in live view mode and, at the same time, releases leaf shutters that allows for this as well.
Not to mention it's not an Arca. ;D
Joe good points, and you are right on the shutter, but I am willing to bet the real announcement will come next year with the FPS and a similar setup. This gives you a focal shutter that can be controlled by the FPS/Phase One back. I see the FPS as the real key for the future and Alpa.
I love the LCC being taken care of in the process of the exposure as that's a lot less work in post, only working for non movement for now, but I bet Phase will progress with this also in 2015 and Alpa.
I still feel the FPS is main reason for the entire alliance in the first place.
Paul
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Of note, as we've pointed out on our Capture One 8.1 Release Blog Entry (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/new-capture-one-8-1) the Rodenstock 23HR, 35HR, 40HR, 50HR, and 70HR are now supported in Capture One 8.1.
This is not limited to users of an Alpa A Series (https://digitaltransitions.com/page/phase-one-a-series) but works just as well for Arca/Cambo/etc since they are all use identical optics. This includes distortion correction without leaving raw, with optional offset for rise/fall/shift (manually entered) which is useful for tech bodies with movement.
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That's great news. Can't load 8.1 for a few days after what happened this morning. But glad to see the lens support for sure.
I wonder why the 28 was left out?
Paul
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I just don't see the big deal.
This looks like an afterthought idea of what can we put together that does not involve any real R&D. The only why this makes sense is if Phase releases a back that allows you to shoot in live view mode and, at the same time, releases leaf shutters that allows for this as well.
Not to mention it's not an Arca. ;D
Any *body* R&D. In fact if Phase One had a liveview mirrorless body in the pipeline they wouldn't invest R&D time in this kludge. This looks like a solution meant to give liveview P250C users good wideangle solutions for a stopgap year or two until a real Phase body arrives that can take short-throw symmetrical lenses.
Frankly, I like the idea - superb lenses, superb backs, factory calibration, well-integrated software, iPad screen for liveview, evey part here is best of breed. Maybe Phase don't need a new body if AF or cadenced shooting is not necessary and shooters just use wides. I guess Arca now need to do a deal to bundle the $10 Hassy Cmos back :)
Edmund
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That's great news. Can't load 8.1 for a few days after what happened this morning. But glad to see the lens support for sure.
I wonder why the 28 was left out?
It's just a start. There are many Rodenstock lenses in common use not on the list. Most notable (IMO) the 32HR and 90HR-SW which are two of the best lenses of any platform (32HR test sample (https://digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-testing/28mm-32mm-test)).
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Yes, I missed the 32, as just assumed it would be there.
Paul
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Any *body* R&D. In fact if Phase One had a liveview mirrorless body in the pipeline they wouldn't invest R&D time in this kludge. This looks like a solution meant to give liveview P250C users good wideangle solutions for a stopgap year or two until a real Phase body arrives that can take short-throw symmetrical lenses.
Frankly, I like the idea - superb lenses, superb backs, factory calibration, well-integrated software, iPad screen for liveview, evey part here is best of breed. Maybe Phase don't need a new body if AF or cadenced shooting is not necessary and shooters just use wides. I guess Arca now need to do a deal to bundle the $10 Hassy Cmos back :)
Edmund
Honestly once you use a well tuned tech camera setup, for Landscape and Architecture, you don't really wanna mess about with a clunky MF SLR. I only use my Digital Back with an SLR when photographing people (mostly handheld) and works well for fast tabletop work also but thats about it for me. For wide angle work on a tripod of mostly distant subjects the tech camera is just much more efficient IMHO. You can rig up a pretty small and light package with lenses that are well above and beyond any MF wide angle lens made. The only MF SLR that isnt that clunky / cumbersome is the Leica S. But it is an integrated solution. The 645z still qualifies as clunky in my book but it is not too bad. It, like the Hasselbad H and the DF+, is still carrying the design burden of 645 film, a large Mirror Box and correspondingly long Flange Focal Distance.
But the same thing happened with 35mm SLRs. It was not until the Sony A7's and the Fuji X-T1 that we really got large sensor interchangeable lens cameras with very short flange focal distances and smaller and lighter bodies and lenses.
The Leica S is a step closer to that and as such it allows (with adapters) the use of a wide range of lenses. The ALPA and now the ARCA FPS are also a step closer to a MF "Mirrorless" Body.
Medium Format Digital will get there. But it is gonna take a while. I know it is a bit frustrating since the parts/technology are out there to make it happen right now.
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I just don't see the big deal.
This is not a SLR, due to the lenses and copal shutters you can't shoot handheld using live view on the back, this is not even a true twin reflex camera where both lenses are so close the differences in perspective would not matter a whole lot.
Basically we have a super watered downed tech camera with no movements and a view finder that's only advantage over the Arca viewfinder (or whatever) is that it is an iPhone. You are still going to only get an approximate view of what you are shooting handheld. To get an exact view, you would need to use a tripod and use live view on the back. But if you are going this route, why not just get the whole package and buy a tech camera with movements?
Because there are a whole load of photographers out there who probably couldn't give two hoots about movements (and you absolutely can shoot handheld using live view - it's just that the optimal approach here is to use the live view on the iPhone).
I don't think it's going to be particularly complicated for someone to get slick at taking the back out of live-view (I think this is necessary?), closing the aperture, and firing the shutter - ALPA have a one-shot release cable that means there's no need to separately wake up the back and then fire the shutter.
Kind regards,
Gerald.