Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: JV on November 15, 2013, 05:49:26 pm
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Not sure whether this is the right forum but given that Polaroid packfilm in the past was often used to make test shots for the real shoot with MF equipment I believe it is appropriate.
Even if if you do not shoot it anymore it still makes sense to sign the petition IMO:
http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-the-discontinuation-of-fuji-3000b-instant-film-by-fujifilm
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What! I can't believe it! I use this way more than the color ones! I wish they'd bring back the 4x5 as well!
Just signed!
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Signed
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I'm wondering how people who do not use a product actually help anyone by voting on the continuation of such a product.
I'd have thought that the manufacturers would already know, from their sales figures, where stood the viability of any specific product. It isn't about public noise; it's about sales numbers: they speak (or shout) louder, and when they whisper, the message is just as clear to those with their ear close to the voice.
Rob C
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It might make them think twice before killing off the next film.
Signed.
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It might make them think twice before killing off the next film.
Signed.
Why? If it's profitable enough they won't, and if it isn't they will.
Just think Kodachrome: so many cried after its demise, but how many bought before that happened? Obviously, not enough to make it worthwhile, and that's the measure: profitability. It's the same for companies as for individuals. I stopped doing stock, not because I lost my love for travel and/or girls, but because I could no longer make it pay. Love is not enough in business. You will go bust following a lost cause.
Rob C
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Why? If it's profitable enough they won't, and if it isn't they will.
Just think Kodachrome: so many cried after its demise, but how many bought before that happened? Obviously, not enough to make it worthwhile, and that's the measure: profitability. It's the same for companies as for individuals. I stopped doing stock, not because I lost my love for travel and/or girls, but because I could no longer make it pay. Love is not enough in business. You will go bust following a lost cause.
Rob C
But we want it!
(/ me stomps on ground heavily with his right foot)
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I think a petition to sell rights and tools to make these products to some small company would make more sense.
Impossible project seems to be doing well out of Polaroid
Edmund
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I think a petition to sell rights and tools to make these products to some small company would make more sense.
Impossible project seems to be doing well out of Polaroid
Edmund
I don't disagree with you.
Given that packfilm is a very niche market a multinational like Fuji is no longer interested and it would be better served by a smaller and more passionate company.
That being said, it did not happen with the FP-100B film which was discontinued last year and it does not look like it will happen right now either.
Hopefully indeed Impossible or some other company steps up...
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Why? If it's profitable enough they won't, and if it isn't they will.
Just think Kodachrome: so many cried after its demise, but how many bought before that happened? Obviously, not enough to make it worthwhile, and that's the measure: profitability. It's the same for companies as for individuals. I stopped doing stock, not because I lost my love for travel and/or girls, but because I could no longer make it pay. Love is not enough in business. You will go bust following a lost cause.
Rob C
Rob,
No offense but I sincerely hope you weren't always as cynical as you sound right now.
And I don't believe that it is no longer profitable. It just has become a niche market and therefore no longer of interest to a large corporation like Fuji.
The demand for the film is there. Professional packfilm cameras are very much wanted on eBay, more now than 3 or 5 years ago.
The product perhaps just needs to get in the hands of a company that still believes in it...
Joris.
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I believe the link to the petition may be incorrect. The proper way to sign the petition is here...
http://www.adorama.com/FJFP3000B.html
:)
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I believe the link to the petition may be incorrect. The proper way to sign the petition is here...
http://www.adorama.com/FJFP3000B.html
:)
I was able to order 50 packs online. Both B&H and Adorama ran out of stock really quickly...
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I bought some locally as well. The thing that sort of sucks is that once you know its the last you'll get, you hold onto what you have instead of using it. I used mostly the 4x5 3000b until they quit making it and I hid about 20 boxes away. I keep thinking I'll use it on something special, but its just getting stale now.
Good idea to sell the rights and equipment, but I know there are some odd laws about equipment and taxes in Japan that sometimes prevent such transactions from being options.
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I bought some locally as well. The thing that sort of sucks is that once you know its the last you'll get, you hold onto what you have instead of using it. I used mostly the 4x5 3000b until they quit making it and I hid about 20 boxes away. I keep thinking I'll use it on something special, but its just getting stale now.
Good idea to sell the rights and equipment, but I know there are some odd laws about equipment and taxes in Japan that sometimes prevent such transactions from being options.
Same here. I stocked up big time when Polaroid went bust. Still more than 20 boxes of 667 in my fridge...
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Question about storing pack film. I am sure that I have read that it was best to NOT refrigerate. Just cool and dry, which is what I have always done with it.
Any best advice?
Thanks!
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Hi,
A company like Fuji needs to earn money, they would probably keep it if it would earn them money, in both long and short term. For instance there is a need for maintenance and renewal of the machines used.
It is possible that a smaller operation could take over rights, but they would still have costs and they also need to earn money. Most of those ventures fail I guess.
Professional photographers also need to earn money, to be able to renew equipment, cover operating experiences and to feed their familiy.
Best regards
Erik
Rob,
No offense but I sincerely hope you weren't always as cynical as you sound right now.
And I don't believe that it is no longer profitable. It just has become a niche market and therefore no longer of interest to a large corporation like Fuji.
The demand for the film is there. Professional packfilm cameras are very much wanted on eBay, more now than 3 or 5 years ago.
The product perhaps just needs to get in the hands of a company that still believes in it...
Joris.
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Rob,
No offense but I sincerely hope you weren't always as cynical as you sound right now.
And I don't believe that it is no longer profitable. It just has become a niche market and therefore no longer of interest to a large corporation like Fuji.
The demand for the film is there. Professional packfilm cameras are very much wanted on eBay, more now than 3 or 5 years ago.
The product perhaps just needs to get in the hands of a company that still believes in it...
Joris.
No offence taken - why should there be? The point is simple: to exist as a production line, you - anything - have to make enough money to make the venture work. That's always more than just the cost of running the show - there has to be a comfortable profit margin too, that oils the entire machinery/system (including investement considerations) that allows the thing to continue to exist. The closest I can think of to the alternative is the self-employed photographer with no family committments: he can live in, and operate, from an attic or a celler. Only he will starve if he doesn't make enough money from his work. That others might praise it doesn't count unless enough of them also put their money where their collective mouth is.
Making and selling product is no different to producing art: all is commodity; that's not cynicism - that's reality.
Rob C
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The good thing is:
If all breaks down and there is no more film ....
We can buy glass plates, gelatine, silverbromide, hydrochinon .... and make it all ourselves ... even 8x10" .... lenses should be extremely cheap once this happens ...
:P
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Erik/Rob,
Large corporations have their own logic and it is not only about profitability.
I am pretty convinced that a smaller more passionate company could still make packfilm with sufficient margin to make a profit and to keep the production lines running.
BTW, more than 5,500 people signed the petition already, that is already very close the estimated number of MFD units sold per year…
Joris.
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Question about storing pack film. I am sure that I have read that it was best to NOT refrigerate. Just cool and dry, which is what I have always done with it.
Any best advice?
Thanks!
The fridge is OK. Freezing will kill the film. Cool and dry should be fine if you are planning to shoot it within a few years of its expiration. If not I would store it in the fridge.
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Erik/Rob,
Large corporations have their own logic and it is not only about profitability.
I am pretty convinced that a smaller more passionate company could still make packfilm with sufficient margin to make a profit and to keep the production lines running.
BTW, more than 5,500 people signed the petition already, that is already very close the estimated number of MFD units sold per year…Joris.
Which indicates what, exactly? You can hardly draw a logical parallel between the profitability of a thing that costs a few bucks and one running into the price of good cars.
Rob C
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Hi,
Sometimes a smaller company can take over resources from a larger company, sometimes for a symbolic payment. A small operation may need less operating margin, but they still need maintenance and so on.
Sometimes there are success stories. A couple of years ago Franke & Heidecke (makers of Rollei) collapsed. A different company was started by some employees, and the operation seems successful. I have no doubt those employees went trough a lot of hardship.
Best regards
Erik
Which indicates what, exactly? You can hardly draw a logical parallel between the profitability of a thing that costs a few bucks and one running into the price of good cars.
Rob C
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I keep hearing about how the Japanese need to destroy their equipment for some kind of tax reasons - its come up several times now - and I know that what seems logical may not be possible. You would think some upstart would just buy the machinery to make the film and the chemical formulae and away they go, right? But this isn't necessarily possible.
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Hi,
It may be that if the equipment is written of it is required to be destructed, so it has no actual value.
My guess is that it is not easy to keep production profitable. A startup may have lower wages, less needs for margins, but it can be they postpone maintenance, and run in difficulties later.
On the other hand a startup may be more efficient, have cheaper sales channels and so.
Best regards
Erik
I keep hearing about how the Japanese need to destroy their equipment for some kind of tax reasons - its come up several times now - and I know that what seems logical may not be possible. You would think some upstart would just buy the machinery to make the film and the chemical formulae and away they go, right? But this isn't necessarily possible.