Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: dchew on January 26, 2012, 12:52:32 pm

Title: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: dchew on January 26, 2012, 12:52:32 pm
Because of the LCC feature in Capture 1, my standard workflow is to import into C1, apply the LCC and do some level of developing in C1 before exporting a tiff to Lightroom.  I'm impressed with the changes in LR4, and frankly if it wasn't for the LCC I think I would do everything in LR just like my dslr and m4/3 images.

For those of you who do something similar, I'm wondering if there are thoughts on what adjustments people do in C1 vs. LR.  I suppose the more done on the raw file the better, so is the simple answer do the most in C1 as possible then export.  On the other hand, I'm too lazy and time crunched, so I really want to focus my learning efforts on one application. Maybe I'm searching for other answers just because I know LR so much better than C1...

As Jeff and others have pointed out in various threads, the raw application is often not the limiting factor, but the expertise of the operator.  I just ain't that good a driver behind the C1 wheel.

Dave
Title: Re: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: BernieKohl on January 31, 2012, 12:37:04 pm
I must say to some degree, especially when working with Photoshop, Lightroom does make life a little easier. Personally, I just love it for managing my entire image library. To me it is much more a program for file management than it is a RAW converter/editor. LCC and GPS have been on my Lightroom wishlist for quite some time now. Seems like we are going to have to wait another 2 years for LCC. The problem I see with both LR and PS is that they are made for prepress and snapshot photographers using button monsters. The demands of more technical photographers remain unheard.

Regarding the LCC workflow with C1 ... to me it really is a back and forth between LR, PS and C1 as well.
It usually goes like this:
1) Import the images into the Project folder
2) Apply LCC through C1 + further RAW adjustments
3) Export as 16 Bit TIFF into subfolder
4) Edit the TIFFs in PS
5) Manage/print the files from Lightroom
Title: Re: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: dchew on January 31, 2012, 02:07:01 pm
So your overall process is the same as mine, and probably most others.  In general the LCC, any "major" adjustments to color, white or black points I will do in C1.  Everything else from then on will get done in LR.  There seem to be dramatic improvements in B&W mode associated with large moves of the color sliders.  Halos around trees are essentially gone now.  For example, I can take this image much farther than before, almost to an IR effect...

I really like the process changes.

Dave



Title: Re: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: mtomalty on February 06, 2012, 12:23:59 pm

Is there something in the way LR is written that makes the application of an LCC file an impossibility?

Or does it come down to feature choices and a decision based, at design level, to an assessment of the value of
effort offset by a relatively small number of users who would benefit from  such a feature?

Mark
Title: Re: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: dchew on February 06, 2012, 02:10:45 pm
I don't know.  My guess is the latter, but who knows.  LR has lens profiles, and you can custom make lens profiles for any lens.  However that feature is more geared toward distortion and vignetting, where C1 is color cast / vignetting.  It is more complicated to create a lens profile in LR vs. an LCC in C1, but that's because of the distortion correction. 

You are probably correct that only a small subset would benefit from this.  What would be really nice is if C1 would adopt DNG, then maybe the LCC could be packaged in a raw file format.  I'd rather not make a tiff, then make more adjustments to that baked tiff in LR.  But given C1's relatively new EIP-format push, that's not happening any time soon.

Dave
Title: Re: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: BernieKohl on February 06, 2012, 03:54:51 pm
From what I've heard Lightroom already supports LCC to some degree through a few lens profiles that also correct color shift. I don't think it would be that much of a problem to integrate a C1-like LCC feature. Looking at the contents of EIP files the lcc profiles aren't that large. So embedding them within DNG files would not add much file size. It would also help during system migration since there is no risk of losing the profiles. The color shifts that are being corrected through LCC in C1 are not just lens cast but also non-linear sensor response, by the way. Every digital sensor has a unique signal response pattern, which the manufacturers manage to correct in hardware pretty well. Still, the only way to get correct colors and acceptable white balance is through LCC in post. Since Camera RAW supports profiled color correction since ACR 5.4 I really don't understand why features like the new "book module" have had higher priority. Isn't it supposed to be a program from professionals for professionals?
Title: Re: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: Schewe on February 06, 2012, 04:01:38 pm
Quote from: mtomalty on February 06, 2012, 12:23:59 pm
Is there something in the way LR is written that makes the application of an LCC file an impossibility?

Actually, DNG already supports LCC via the Optcode capability in DNG so if an LCC correction image is available, the DNG could include processing to correct for it. unfortunately, there's no UI for either ACR or Lightroom to select the correction file. I think there is a command line method of doing it but it's command line.

Don't be surprised to see more info about this in the future. Also note that if C1 updated their use of DNG to the current spec and they felt like it, the C1 LCC correction could be put into a DNG generated by C1. But at this point they don't.
Title: Re: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: BernieKohl on February 07, 2012, 03:27:40 am
Quote from: Schewe on February 06, 2012, 04:01:38 pm
Actually, DNG already supports LCC via the Optcode capability in DNG so if an LCC correction image is available, the DNG could include processing to correct for it. unfortunately, there's no UI for either ACR or Lightroom to select the correction file. I think there is a command line method of doing it but it's command line.

I looked it up in the DNG specifications: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/extend.displayTab2.html#resources (http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/extend.displayTab2.html#resources)
The opcode list (chapter 7) contains 13 image processing operations that are applied after demosaicing:
WarpRectilinearThis opcode applies a warp to an image and can be used to correct geometric distortion and lateral (transverse) chromatic aberration for rectilinear lenses.
WarpFisheyeThis opcode applies a warp to an image and can be used to “unwrap” an image captured with a fisheye lens and map it instead to a perspective projection.
FixVignetteRadialThis opcode applies a gain function to an image and can be used to correct vignetting.
FixBadPixelsConstantThis opcode patches (interpolates over) bad pixels in a Bayer pattern CFA image.
FixBadPixelsListThis opcode patches (interpolates over) bad pixels and rectangles in a Bayer pattern CFA image.
TrimBoundsThis opcode trims the image to the rectangle specified by Top, Left, Bottom, and Right.
MapTableThis opcode maps a specified area and plane range of an image through a 16-bit LUT.
MapPolynomialThis opcode maps a specified area and plane range of an image through a polynomial function.
GainMapThis opcode multiplies a specified area and plane range of an image by a gain map.
DeltaPerRowThis opcode applies a per-row delta (constant offset) to a specified area and plane range of an image.
DeltaPerColumnThis opcode applies a per-column delta (constant offset) to a specified area and plane range of an image.
ScalePerRowThis opcode applies a per-row scale to a specified area and plane range of an image.
ScalePerColumnThis opcode applies a per-column scale to a specified area and plane range of an image.

I guess LCC would be using FixVignetteRadial and MapTable. It would probably be possible to create a Lightroom plugin that analyzes the LCC image, creates a profile and stores the lookup-table in the DNG file through an external app. Usability-wise it wouldn't work, because of constantly having to go back and forth between the plugin and Lightroom. But I'm pretty sure we'll see it in ACR/LR sooner or later. Hopefully with a better UI than CaptureOne so that one can organize/stack the LCC profiles for each sensor/lens combination. Well, hopefully ...
Title: Re: Technical cameras, Lightroom 4 and Capture 1
Post by: madmanchan on February 07, 2012, 12:39:28 pm
The appropriate opcode is GainMap.