Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: Tim Gray on September 26, 2011, 09:37:35 am
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One of the best articles I've seen in a while. (What's New - http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/bw_master_print.shtml )
"The basic physical difference between the two states – Luminance and Luminosity – is largely one of defining edges and altering contrast" was one statement that caught my attention - particularly since I had just reviewed the following: (which also is very worthwhile to drill down to the basic source articles."
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=58071.0
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One of the best articles I've seen in a while.
I agree. Lot's of substance, little fluff.
Eric
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Have to admit I'm a bit confused. The link goes to another thread with a link to an article on eye tracking. I have no idea how this relates to the title of this thread and the copied quote is not to be found in that eye tracking article.
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The quote is from the B&W Master print article. The referenced thread has it's own link, which in turn links to:
http://www.publicaffairs.ubc.ca/2010/05/28/ubc-researcher-decodes-rembrandt%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cmagic%E2%80%9D/ which is where the interesting discussion of contrast and edge detection takes place.
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The quote is from the B&W Master print article. The referenced thread has it's own link, which in turn links to:
http://www.publicaffairs.ubc.ca/2010/05/28/ubc-researcher-decodes-rembrandt%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cmagic%E2%80%9D/ which is where the interesting discussion of contrast and edge detection takes place.
But where do I find the B&W Master Print article?
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But where do I find the B&W Master Print article?
It's the new article on LuLa home page http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/bw_master_print.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/bw_master_print.shtml)
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But where do I find the B&W Master Print article?
I realize you're pretty new to LL, Mark, so here's how to find George DeWolfe's fine article:
1. Go to the Luminous Landscape home page (not the forum) -- and be sure to stick a hyphen between Luminous and Landscape or you'll get some silly commercial site.
2. scroll down a little until you see "What's New," and click on it.
3. Click on the link to "The B&W Master Print – Creating Presence," and Bob's y'r Uncle! ;D
Cheers,
Eric M.
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I had the same problem with the thread talking about how the shot of the "World's Best Tripod?" was out of focus -(or at least it was the grass, not the tripod that was in focus) Took me a while to figure out what they were talking about :)
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The topics of the article are already discussed in details in his book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Masters-B-W-Printing/dp/1600591655/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317064042&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Masters-B-W-Printing/dp/1600591655/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317064042&sr=1-1)
The first of his books worth reading too.
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One of the best articles I've seen in a while.
Agreed, the suggestion to blur and step back from the monitor is going to be immensely helpful to me.
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The topics of the article are already discussed in details in his book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Masters-B-W-Printing/dp/1600591655/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317064042&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Masters-B-W-Printing/dp/1600591655/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1317064042&sr=1-1)
The first of his books worth reading too.
+1 on the book recommendation but I really did not like all the shilling that he did for his software plug in which I find to be of dubious value (IMHO).
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+1 on the book recommendation but I really did not like all the shilling that he did for his software plug in which I find to be of dubious value (IMHO).
Don't have the plug-in? Try this:
1. Duplicate the background layer
2. Desaturate (if colour)
3. Apply large diameter Gaussian Blur (value depends on image size/resolution)
4. Invert
5. Set Overlay blend mode
6. Set Opacity to taste
7. Apply Curve for midtone contrast increase
See attached:
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Don't have the plug-in? Try this:
1. Duplicate the background layer
2. Desaturate (if colour)
3. Apply large diameter Gaussian Blur (value depends on image size/resolution)
4. Invert
5. Set Overlay blend mode
6. Set Opacity to taste
7. Apply Curve for midtone contrast increase
See attached:
Exactly; why should I pay for something I can replicate in Photoshop (that was the dubious value part of the statement).
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I had to chime in and give 3 thumbs up to George DeWolfe. I would love to see that first image hanging on my living room wall. Thanks so much for the fact filled lesson that will keep me busy for months. I see myself re-reading every word a hundred times over, now bookmarked for easy access.
There should be a link to the main page from the forum, I never noticed until reading the above comments. That main site is a treat too. I always come to the forum from there, looking first to see if the main page picture changed. Michael changes the front page image every time a new 'What's New' is posted.
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Shilling aside, really what he's advocating is just a different way of doing a lot of the things that we do already in PS. Localised contrast (dodge/burn) and a different approach to localised sharpening/desharpening. It doesn't work with Smart Objects. I like the use of the Snapshots. To be honest I'd completely forgotten that could be done in PS. He's substituting the History Brush for the regular brush used in other methods. Is it really that different?
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I realize you're pretty new to LL, Mark, so here's how to find George DeWolfe's fine article:
1. Go to the Luminous Landscape home page (not the forum) -- and be sure to stick a hyphen between Luminous and Landscape or you'll get some silly commercial site.
2. scroll down a little until you see "What's New," and click on it.
3. Click on the link to "The B&W Master Print – Creating Presence," and Bob's y'r Uncle! ;D
Cheers,
Eric M.
Hi Eric and Francisco,
OK, OK, - silly me - fact is I'm far afield on a slowish internet connection, up to my eyeballs in work, with barely enough time on my hands to respond to email - haven't been to the Home Page for a while, nor any other website for that matter. Life should return to "normal" next week! Cheers, and thanks :-) It looks like a great article.
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It appears to me that this is a uni-directional method, i.e., there is no history available if you need to save and restart. If you've not kept an un-modified layer to restart from, all you've got to work with is your partially modified image. There is no way to back out the sharpening, but you can add blur. There is no way to back out lightening or darkening other than to darken or lighten the current image.
It's not clear that this is a problem, but it is a concern.
Alan
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+1 on the book recommendation but I really did not like all the shilling that he did for his software plug in which I find to be of dubious value (IMHO).
I tried his software, but did not figure it out how to improve the picture with it, so I ended up not buying it. However I do not hesitate to buy good software if it is going to save me considerable work in front of the computer.
I like his books not because of the technique shown to fix what is wrong, but rather for pointing out the way how to see what to improve in your images.
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Really interesting article. I really liked the blurring of the image and stepping further away, and also whole theoretical background.
Will share it all over on my FB and so on.
But, even that I found his history brush technique very interesting, I cant see how it could replace method of using multiple differently exported raws as smart objects with masking. If I am correct, he will still have data just from one (assume 16bit) export of RAW file.
I need to say, I didn't have time to try his method yet.
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These effects and more can also be obtained by using Nik's Silver Efex Pro (by extending the presets, needless to add).
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It appears to me that this is a uni-directional method, i.e., there is no history available if you need to save and restart. If you've not kept an un-modified layer to restart from, all you've got to work with is your partially modified image. There is no way to back out the sharpening, but you can add blur. There is no way to back out lightening or darkening other than to darken or lighten the current image.
It's not clear that this is a problem, but it is a concern.
Alan
The technique also isn't easily repeatable from one image to the next, if for some reason you changed your mind and selected a different (though similar) image in the set. Or, as happens in my situation, the art director or editor does. Being able to copy over adjustment layers and simply adjust the masks is a great time saver.
But these are personal technique tastes, the individual artist who answers to no-one else may like the relative simplicity of painting with the history brush, though I've never found it all that intuitive - remembering what blending mode does what for example.
He's right on about edges though. I've been working on a technique where I use the glowing edges filter to make a grayscale mask that I can use for all sorts of purposes.
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Agreed, the suggestion to blur and step back from the monitor is going to be immensely helpful to me.
I just take off my glasses. ;D
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I just take off my glasses. ;D
:-)
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I remember reading somewhere that when viewing a scene to squint. This effectively blurs the scene. I do this to see how the masses of light and dark relate to each other in the composition.
I also have noticed that when I view relatively small thumbnails in the grid mode in LR that I can pick out the images that have good composition easily.
Larry
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This thread is much of a replay of one some time ago. I have not had time to analyse his software but gromit appears on the right track. The logic is quite clever . What is produced is not an increase of contrast but a redistribution of luminosity It is oftern of value to attach the curves or levels layer to the top duplicate mask layer. The technique can be used with colour but saturation can vary across the tonal range so a saturation protection layer should be placed above the mask layer. The technique greatly improves many images but is detrimental or non-effective to others. It is one of many approaches and may form part of a sequential strategy to be considered when edition images for perceptual qualities. The paper Bob and others have referred to , published in Leonardo Journal (MIT Press)- , is related not to this but to directed differential acuity. Applications of both are outcomes of the psycho physiological approach to printmaking that George de Wolfe uses which he derives from Minor White and others. The theoretical base was studied at RIT by Richard Zakia , Lesley Stroebel and others. Going back further one should refer to E.H Gombrich's "Art and Illusion"' 1959, derived from the 1956 A.W.Mellon Lectures in The Fine Arts. I would have to say that this can be deep stuff. It is not easy for those with a Cartesian approach to photography and printmaking. It can also produce terrrible results if one is not on top of it.
I would suggest that seeing the differences these edits make is a learned skill and is not possible on a computer screen or even from a book. I recall seeing original Ansel Adams and Paul Caponigro prints with and without the framing glass. The difference was astonishing. The difference was presence, and that is what George de Wolfe is talking about.
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I'm having a look at the new version of the Percept tool . There is a bit more to it than the light redistribution mask so my previous comment is tentative. I will say that there are approaches to correct camera response to that of the eye /brain combination. They are not all readily available in Photoshop. Some readers might not understand all George is saying , but his principles are correct.