Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: fredjeang on April 02, 2011, 11:30:04 am
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I just saw, re-reading an old Hasselblad newsletter, that the CVF-50 is at 12400euros here, new.
50MP and 38 in squared format, plus that it's usable on view cams: it makes me think that at this price,
considering that the V cameras cost nothing today, it really is a "bargain".
(and the V are quite elegant compared to the "alien space-ship look" of the current H bodies)
But I don't really know if such an old system not made for digital handles well the 50MP digital (thinking of lenses in particular).
Of course the Hassy propagande will say that it's wonderfully corrected (DAC).
but DAC or not, what about users?
ps:I checked on Robisa in Madrid wich is the official dealer and price is 12500, so 100 more than the rest of Europe??
The spanish exception.
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Fred
About 12,000 euros/GBP is about right for the 50 MP. As to "does it work" - well, as you know, almost every picture I have posted here in the Critique section has been taken on the CFV-39. So if you check back through those pix you can to some extent judge for yourself, or at least as far as you can judge anything from a small jpeg. All of them were taken on very old Zeiss 'C' lenses, with no DAC or any nonsense like that. The CFV 39 and 50 are exactly the same except for the sensor, of course. In use, they are brilliant - you just use them exactly like a film magazine. No sync cable, no messing. Slap it on, choose your ISO, and shoot.
John
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Thanks John.
How is your experience with the CVF non-tethered?
Is there a reliable viwfinder for that camera?
Also, I guess it doesn't work with Phocus Mobile?
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Thanks John.
How is your experience with the CVF non-tethered?
Also, I guess it doesn't work with Phocus Mobile?
Fred, I've never used the CFV tethered. I'm always outdoors. I don't use Phocus of any sort, just Lightroom. David Grover might be able to answer the more technical questions. I've only ever used the CFV as a substitute for a film magazine in the simplest possible way. I shoot to the CF card and treat the whole thing just like film, really. But you can do all sorts of clever stuff with it, if you want.
I bought it because it has nice shiny chrome bits on it, which you can polish :)
John
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I bought it because it has nice shiny chrome bits on it, which you can polish :)
John
Yes, a nice peice of camera indeed. There are hundreds in Madrid for less than an entry level plastic dslr.
I'm conpletly fed-up by the multifunction buttons. One button=one function is high on my list.
Second-hand lenses are easy to find.
I like the idea that a crop squared still gives almost 40MP.
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Is there a reliable viwfinder for that camera?
Viewfinders, you must be joking. For the 500 and 200 series cameras there are -
Waistlevel finder and magnifier
90 degree prisms
45 degree prisms
Magnifying Hood (Chimney Finder)
Frame Sports Finders
And a zillion interchangeable screens.
One of the very nicest 45 deg prisms is the old NC2, with a wonderful large exit pupil.
John
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I bought it because it has nice shiny chrome bits on it, which you can polish :)
You thought I was kidding, didn't you? If you offered me the choice between the Phase IQ 80 MP and the CFV, I'd take the CFV because I like the look of it better. Just like cars, really - now a Jaguar XK 150, there was a car . . .
John
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You thought I was kidding, didn't you? If you offered me the choice between the Phase IQ 80 MP and the CFV, I'd take the CFV because I like the look of it better. Just like cars, really - now a Jaguar XK 150, there was a car . . .
John
When I was a kid, I found a job of drawing contests perspectives in an arquitecture agency in the south of France, in the city of Pau. The arquitect had a Xk 150 and sometimes he brought me for a ride in downtown. I was amazed by the car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccYRqAM7wm0&feature=related
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(and the V are quite elegant compared to the "alien space-ship look" of the current H bodies)
the alien space-ship like H camera is easily the better camera though...
and not terribly expensive on the used market either...
don't get me wrong, I love my 503cw...
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What about the H4D-50MS.
Multishot. Doesn't it temp you? I don't know the price though.
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well multishots will only tempt the ones who only shoots still life
it has very little practical use out in the field
as for the Carl Zeiss lenses working on the 50MP
yes they do work, I love them on my H3Dii-50
sometimes I like them over the newer H lenses (although they are sharp, the older Zeiss are smoother)
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And another thing, Fred.
If you go and get the CFV-50, when I have only got the 39, I shall SULK.
;) John
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And another thing, Fred.
If you go and get the CFV-50, when I have only got the 39, I shall SULK.
;) John
Just for that I'm going to do it!!! Then I'd take a 50MP portrait of you sulking while looking at the 39.
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I'm getting quite interested in this back. Does anyone know what sensor is used ? Anyone with actual experience using the back ? (and maybe even some images .. :) )
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Just for that I'm going to do it!!! Then I'd take a 50MP portrait of you sulking while looking at the 39.
Just don't forget to work on a horizontal composition on your V camera (sorry couldn't resist...) ;)
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I'm getting quite interested in this back. Does anyone know what sensor is used ?
Kodak KAF-51000
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/Products/Fullframe/KAF-50100/specs.jhtml
Damn fine sensor - I only wish that PhaseOne would use it (for the long exposure capability, which their Dalsa ones completely lack).
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LOL, LOTS OF LOLS
Just don't forget to work on a horizontal composition on your V camera (sorry couldn't resist...) ;)
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Just don't forget to work on a horizontal composition on your V camera (sorry couldn't resist...) ;)
Not really an issue. Most V owners will prefer the square format anyway and not needing a cable is a great plus.
It would be interesting to know Hasselblad's strategy for non-CFV backs. Only the CFII-39MS is still available on the Hasselblad site.
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"The arquitect had a Xk 150 and sometimes he brought me for a ride in downtown. I was amazed by the car."
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And it was just like my British motorcycle that needed a baking tin under the crankcase to catch the dripping oil. :>)
Steve
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Just don't forget to work on a horizontal composition on your V camera (sorry couldn't resist...) ;)
Yair
As I mentioned above, we do actually have prism finders for the V-system 'Blads, you know ;) So a portrait of me sniffling over my CFV-39 would be no problem for Fred (and I am sure it would make a great shot).
Anyway, kudos to Hasselblad - who else does a 39 MP digital back for around £9,000 GBP including taxes, or a 50 MP for around £12,500?
John
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You know, I'm not exactly broke, but reading these posts and the easy acceptance of the prices that the backs command makes me wonder how we have generally become conditioned to being screwed so thoroughly.
Even if I were not retired I would still cast a more than jaundiced eye at the selling game that's currently on in photography.
It smells like a fish shop on a Friday afternoon.
Rob C.
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"The arquitect had a Xk 150 and sometimes he brought me for a ride in downtown. I was amazed by the car."
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And it was just like my British motorcycle that needed a baking tin under the crankcase to catch the dripping oil. :>)
Steve
My Norton leaked but wow, did it handle (for it's day). Used to think the XK 150 3.8 S was my favourite car, followed closely by the 3.8 E Type but now the Austin Healey 3000 is gaining ground.
Re leaking: my friend has a modern Ferrari. Its magnificent but he has taken to carrying a bucket with him to store the bits that fall off. I guess the story is - designed by a genuis, built by monkeys. Sorry for being so OT.
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Rob
I do sympathise with your point of view. For those of us who grew up with film, the price of cameras now seems mind-boggling.
But, to be fair, high-end MF gear always was (relatively) very expensive. I remember staring into the window of Truro Photographic back in about 1982, wishing that I could even think about affording the beautiful Hasselblads. Let alone one with more than one lens. Eventually I managed to scrape enough cash together for a Rollei 2.8F (secondhand), and that was the limit of my ambition.
Looking at it today, a film magazine for a 500 'Blad is over £700, new. And I think an 'H' system film mag is more like £1,800. And of course you have to have at least two magazines, and preferably three. The 50mm Zeiss lens was over £3,000 last time I looked. All of that is nothing to do with digital.
The market for MF digital backs (especially those dedicated to the V-system) is tiny, a few thousand world-wide for all MF DBs from all manufacturers. Against the possible sales you have to factor in the R&D, tooling costs, specialised manufacturing facilities (clean rooms etc), paying Kodak or Dalsa the huge prices they demand for large sensors, the cost of warranty returns on a low unit turnover, and in the case of the CFV it has to be assembled by hand (no automated assembly) because it matches the film mags with all the polished chrome and leatherette covering as per the classic 500.
Now, I'm no apologist for the camera manufacturers. But even if you take digital out of the equation, and want to shoot film with brand-new MF gear, it's still not going to be cheap. And it never was.
John
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You know, I'm not exactly broke, but reading these posts and the easy acceptance of the prices that the backs command makes me wonder how we have generally become conditioned to being screwed so thoroughly.
While I know we are being charged a lot for these backs, I'm not that sure we're being screwed. The parts (chip) are expensive to manufacture and buy and the numbers sold are not massive, coupled with the cost of development is bound to push the price up. Also you need to remember Hass/Phase/Leaf etc are a business and not a charity for poor photographers. They don't make cameras for the love of our photography but to make money.
Also when I think back to the amount of film and polaroid we used to get through in one week, (I include 5x4 film and polaroid as the digi backs can be mounted on view cameras) E6 chemistry, (boy that was expensive) the time and fuel costs from trips to the lab and the presentation tranny mounts we supplied to clients, you could pay for a new digital back every 12 months.
I'm glad that cost side of the business has gone now I'm self employed, especially as the one off hit costs of a digi back lasts for years and film, polaroid, chemistry and lab costs just kept getting more expensive year on year.
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While I know we are being charged a lot for these backs, I'm not that sure we're being screwed. The parts (chip) are expensive to manufacture and buy and the numbers sold are not massive, coupled with the cost of development is bound to push the price up. Also you need to remember Hass/Phase/Leaf etc are a business and not a charity for poor photographers. They don't make cameras for the love of our photography but to make money.
You forgot our 7 bedroom suburb house, 5 series beemer, the wife's Cayane, the kid's private education fees and the annual holiday in the Bahamas (a 7-day ski holiday in France doesn't count)...this all has to be paid from somewhere...
back to reality now... ;)
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You forgot our 7 bedroom suburb house, 5 series beemer, the wife's Cayane, the kid's private education fees and the annual holiday in the Bahamas (a 7-day ski holiday in France doesn't count)...this all has to be paid from somewhere...
Well, it's very comforting to know that we are all doing our bit to keep you afloat, Yair. I was going to suggest a whip-round from the Forum members, but it looks like you are OK for the moment . . .
;) John
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You forgot our 7 bedroom suburb house, 5 series beemer, the wife's Cayane, the kid's private education fees and the annual holiday in the Bahamas (a 7-day ski holiday in France doesn't count)...this all has to be paid from somewhere...
back to reality now... ;)
This particular post has definitely made up my mind :) . I do not want to contribute to your burgeois decadence in any way so, bye bye Leaf Aptus II - hello CFV50, for me :))).
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Now, I'm no apologist for the camera manufacturers. But even if you take digital out of the equation, and want to shoot film with brand-new MF gear, it's still not going to be cheap. And it never was.
A brand new Rollei Hy6 (body, magazine, lens) is about $8-10K, a brand new Hasselblad 503CW about $7-8K. Not cheap, I concur, and it never has been. That being said, adding $4-5K to the price of an existing back, or twice the price of a 5D MkII, just for a nice LCD screen does feel a bit like stretching it...
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Right, Yair and Doug -
Here's the challenge. Dale Photographic are currently offering the CFV-50 for £11,336 GBP including taxes. What can Leaf and Phase offer for that price, brand new, to fit the V-series Hasselblads? And if you can match the price, I bet it's not 50 MP ;)
John
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The answer, buy the virtually new cameras/backs on offer from those awfully nice "gentlemen photographers" when they upgrade to the latest-greatest bleeding-edge super-duper sugar-candy.
And all this at a fraction of the original price. Let some other bugger take the hit.
The wisest indeed !
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Well, either I've done a Rip Van Winkel since I was buying film 'blads and lenses, filters, tubes and prisms etc. or you guys are all far richer than I ever was.
If a 503CW now costs 7-8k dollars and sounds reasonable, then I suggest that the screw doesn't stop turning at digi either! Any real r&d on that must have been finished a hundred years ago; ditto any Zeiss lenses to fit.
I wish I'd kept my set of 'blad bodies and optics, even if they never saw another film. Come to think of it, the dough I've thrown at digital Nikon in the past few years would probably have taken care of a digital back anyway...
;-(
Rob C
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MF was more expensive than 35mm cameras but not 10X. The MF market for digital is small now because most of those photographers had to move to FF. The V system market share actually was the biggest asset that medium format ever had and they let it die (almost). I got tired of waiting for prices to come down to sensible levels. Nowadays my V system is locked in a cabinet with dehumidifiers and I spend all my money buying the best glass I can afford for my 5D's. Most of that money is forever gone and away from MF manufacturers hands. I spent a few years reading these forums asking questions and such because I naively was waiting for "my" digital back.
My posts here are mostly nostalgic cause I lost faith. I'm 58, if lucky I may be able to afford a used P45+ in 4-5 years. The 5DIV of tomorrow will be awsome and more fun than ever. Digital MF is for a few chosen. The first time in the history of "religions" that the real chosen ones add up.
Eduardo
The market for MF digital backs (especially those dedicated to the V-system) is tiny, a few thousand world-wide for all MF DBs from all manufacturers. Against the possible sales you have to factor in the R&D, tooling costs, specialised manufacturing facilities (clean rooms etc), paying Kodak or Dalsa the huge prices they demand for large sensors, the cost of warranty returns on a low unit turnover, and in the case of the CFV it has to be assembled by hand (no automated assembly) because it matches the film mags with all the polished chrome and leatherette covering as per the classic 500.
Now, I'm no apologist for the camera manufacturers. But even if you take digital out of the equation, and want to shoot film with brand-new MF gear, it's still not going to be cheap. And it never was.
John
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MF was more expensive than 35mm cameras but not 10X. The MF market for digital is small now because most of those photographers had to move to FF. The V system market share actually was the biggest asset that medium format ever had and they let it die (almost). I got tired of waiting for prices to come down to sensible levels. Nowadays my V system is locked in a cabinet with dehumidifiers and I spend all my money buying the best glass I can afford for my 5D's. Most of that money is forever gone and away from MF manufacturers hands. I spent a few years reading these forums asking questions and such because I naively was waiting for "my" digital back.
My posts here are mostly nostalgic cause I lost faith. I'm 58, if lucky I may be able to afford a used P45+ in 4-5 years. The 5DIV of tomorrow will be awsome and more fun than ever. Digital MF is for a few chosen. The first time in the history of "religions" that the real chosen ones add up.
Eduardo
Eduardo, if you can afford 5Ds (plural) and "the best glass" for them (meaning, I presume, Canon L glass), then you can afford a used digital back for your V system. Ever looked into this option? Or was it that you were put off by the crop factor of the square 16/17MP backs?
Ray
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Ray:
I meant first for my 5D and now for my 5D2. I am slowly replacing old gear and getting L glass for sure. Now I own a 17-40, 70-200f4IS, 17TS, buying a 24TS and then the new versions of the other TS's when they show up.
It's a psique thing but for me digital medium format starts at 48X36. That means expensive unless I keep with the old 22mp sensors but since I'd use it for fashion/portrait they are no go because of moire. So that leaves the very old backs with no lcd. Again, no go.
The real trouble is that very few photographers have a big chunk of money to think: What system? It happens one lens at the time. If I started saving for a say... a used P45+ 5 years ago, I would be getting close to buy this dream back but then again, all this time (5 years) I would still be shooting with a 20D and some so so glass and way behind my local competition (gear-wise). No go.
KLaban:
How does it feel? !!!! ;)
Eduardo, if you can afford 5Ds (plural) and "the best glass" for them (meaning, I presume, Canon L glass), then you can afford a used digital back for your V system. Ever looked into this option? Or was it that you were put off by the crop factor of the square 16/17MP backs?
Ray
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Hi everyone. Thank you for for sharing your expertise in this informative thread. I'm from the old generation coming from film and have a good selection of Hasselblad V bodies and lenses. I'm retired with no way to amortize or easily afford a new digital back. The suggestion to buy used from a wealthy amateur or similar source sounds very practical. Can any one of point me in the right direction where to begin looking? Is the CV 50 used on offer anywhere yet? Or is it still too new? How much would I save on the new price? Or is a CV 39 the only option? I live in Europe so the US market is impractical, both for the high import duties and taxes I would have to pay and, I guess, for future service facilities should they become necessary.
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you made me look like an idiot in my office looking at this post
anyway even with the prism finder it is still an awkward camera to shoot horizontal
it was never meant to be that way
just imagine the elegant Hass held horizontal
cant help but to think the one using the camera is a retard
its like the other day when I saw someone using the Nikon D3 shooting horizontal like one would do with a D700 (like it has no horizontal grip)
Just don't forget to work on a horizontal composition on your V camera (sorry couldn't resist...) ;)
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I continue to hear people saying how the Dalsa is better
but seriously what are the differences?
Kodak KAF-51000
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/Products/Fullframe/KAF-50100/specs.jhtml
Damn fine sensor - I only wish that PhaseOne would use it (for the long exposure capability, which their Dalsa ones completely lack).
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Hi everyone. Thank you for for sharing your expertise in this informative thread. I'm from the old generation coming from film and have a good selection of Hasselblad V bodies and lenses. I'm retired with no way to amortize or easily afford a new digital back. The suggestion to buy used from a wealthy amateur or similar source sounds very practical. Can any one of point me in the right direction where to begin looking? Is the CV 50 used on offer anywhere yet? Or is it still too new? How much would I save on the new price? Or is a CV 39 the only option? I live in Europe so the US market is impractical, both for the high import duties and taxes I would have to pay and, I guess, for future service facilities should they become necessary.
Carlo
There does not seem to be much of a market yet for s/h CFV backs. Certainly the 50 is far too new to be available used, although there might be a few of the 39 around I suppose. About a year ago quite a few folks were selling the CFV-16 to upgrade to the 39, but the 16 is old tech now and the crop factor of 1.6x is a real problem.
I would be very careful about purchasing any MF DB from a private seller, and would stick with a reputable dealer and Hasselblad Partner if at all possible. These things are very expensive to fix if they go wrong.
John
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anyway even with the prism finder it is still an awkward camera to shoot horizontal
it was never meant to be that way
just imagine the elegant Hass held horizontal
cant help but to think the one using the camera is a retard
With a 90 deg prism fitted, there is really no problem shooting in portrait format with a Hasselblad 500. This is absolutely nothing new, and nothing to do with digital backs either. Since at least 1960, we have had 16-frame 645 film magazines for the V-system, so it has always been a 645 camera if you wished to use it that way. And it is no more awkward to hold in portrait format than any other MF camera. There is a motordrive with right-hand grip and incorporated shutter release as well for hand-held work. If you don't want a motordrive you can fit an 'L' grip.
The new Leica S2 and the Pentax 645D are more ergonomically designed for rectangular format shooting, of course. And this may well be the way of the future for MF. But what you gain in ergonomics you sacrifice in terms of modularity and flexibility - interchangeable film and digital magazines, interchangeable prisms, finders and screens. Many younger photographers simply don't know about, and have had no experience of, a proper camera system. A system which means that you literally assemble exactly the camera you want for any particular task, where all the various parts of the system are fully integrated, superbly built, and function perfectly. Even the H-system does not come anywhere close to the flexibility we had with the old 500s.
Here is just part of my working kit -
John
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Carlo
There does not seem to be much of a market yet for s/h CFV backs. Certainly the 50 is far too new to be available used, although there might be a few of the 39 around I suppose. About a year ago quite a few folks were selling the CFV-16 to upgrade to the 39, but the 16 is old tech now and the crop factor of 1.6x is a real problem.
I would be very careful about purchasing any MF DB from a private seller, and would stick with a reputable dealer and Hasselblad Partner if at all possible. These things are very expensive to fix if they go wrong.
John
Thanks John. Good advice. I will check with the dealer in Amsterdam.
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I will check with the dealer in Amsterdam
If you're in Amsterdam you can speak to the Leaf dealer (http://www.eyesonmedia.nl/) they may have some interesting offers on refurbished 28/ 33/ 40MP backs, all of which can be used vertically on a V Blad
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I'm a long term client at Eyes On in Amsterdam; from when they were Capi Lux Vak.
Right now I'm in Jaipur, India and when I get back in the summer I'll drop by to see them. Maybe arrange a demo.
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When you are in the Netherlands you are best off contacting Pro-Spirit instead of the one in Amsterdam. Eyesonmedia is fine but they are no longer doing Hasselblad but P1 & Leaf.
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No wonder the CFV is so cheap if it's so flawed that you can't mount it vertically!
With a 90 deg prism fitted, there is really no problem shooting in portrait format with a Hasselblad 500. This is absolutely nothing new, and nothing to do with digital backs either. Since at least 1960, we have had 16-frame 645 film magazines for the V-system, so it has always been a 645 camera if you wished to use it that way. And it is no more awkward to hold in portrait format than any other MF camera. There is a motordrive with right-hand grip and incorporated shutter release as well for hand-held work. If you don't want a motordrive you can fit an 'L' grip.
Sure, for hand held with a prism you could work like that. But, for me, the whole point of staying with the V series was to be able to keep the camera upright and use a WLF, or prism, that's the beauty of the camera for me. It's true a 503CW is no more awkward to hold vertical with the winder and prism (although I wouldn't want to do it with my 555ELD) than a modern Maimiya or 'blad but it has a nicer balance with everything the right way up. Back in the days of film, I don't think I ever meet anyone who had a 645 back for a 'blad. I may have framed a shot upright or landscape but again keeping the camera upright and shooting square is a great way to work and so much more flexible (much nicer to crop a rectangle form a square, than chopping a square out of an oblong as well).
A lot of my work is table top lifestyle and food, for the most part shot on camera stands with tripod heads. 70% of the shots are upright. One problem with turning the camera with a prism on it's side (and it's the same frustrating problem with 35mm type cameras), is that I often need to tilt the camera 15-20 degrees from vertical. No problem tilting to the right, but I can't tilt to the left because the tripod head stops at vertical. The only solution is to get something like a RRS camera rotator contraption, but it's a bodge and I would still end up with backache bending down to look through the viewfinder! Invariably, if a camera is mounted vertically, I'm always standing on the wrong side and have to walk round to see the shutter/aperture, or menu screen. It's so much nicer just to look down. So give me a rotating back every time.
So viva upright cameras, WLF and roll on square chips!
All IMHO, you milage may vary. :)
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When you are in the Netherlands you are best off contacting Pro-Spirit instead of the one in Amsterdam. Eyesonmedia is fine but they are no longer doing Hasselblad but P1 & Leaf.
I can also advise Pro-Spirit, now also know as Frits and Phill. They are really commited to make your job better and do advice you in a non-pushing way. Good company to work with!!!
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A lot of my work is table top lifestyle and food, for the most part shot on camera stands with tripod heads. 70% of the shots are upright. One problem with turning the camera with a prism on it's side (and it's the same frustrating problem with 35mm type cameras), is that I often need to tilt the camera 15-20 degrees from vertical. No problem tilting to the right, but I can't tilt to the left because the tripod head stops at vertical. The only solution is to get something like a RRS camera rotator contraption, but it's a bodge and I would still end up with backache bending down to look through the viewfinder! Invariably, if a camera is mounted vertically, I'm always standing on the wrong side and have to walk round to see the shutter/aperture, or menu screen. It's so much nicer just to look down. So give me a rotating back every time.
So viva upright cameras, WLF and roll on square chips!
Paul
All of these are perfectly fair and valid points. I very rarely work off a tripod (although I know I should do so more often), but if I did more still-life and portrait work I would have the same priorities as you do. But that is just the beauty of the V-System - because it is a proper, open system, you do have a choice. For this type of work one of Yair's brilliant Leaf backs with the rotating sensor will be just the ticket, you can get it in a V-mount, and it wil be far better suited to your purpose than the CFV-50. Horses for courses, naturally.
What rather irked me, and why I made my comment which you quote, was this notion that somehow the 'Blad 500 was more difficult to shoot in portrait format on 645 with a prism than an H-System or a Phase, which was just nonsense. I do it all the time - the trick is not to change your grip as you rotate the camera smoothly clockwise, keeping the RH index finger on the shutter release. The wrists rotate, everything else stays locked in place.
As to a square sensor, well there has been endless discussion about this on so many forums. I am sure that you will never see one for MF because it would be impossibly expensive in the small quantities anyone could sell.
John
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For this type of work one of Yair's brilliant Leaf backs with the rotating sensor will be just the ticket, you can get it in a V-mount, and it wil be far better suited to your purpose than the CFV-50.
Yes, you're not wrong John, it would be better than a CFV. However, I'm not so keen on the 2:3 proportion on that 10R, I much prefer 4:3. The 12R would be great, but overkill for what I need, as well as being well out of my current budget. Another problem with Leafs on a 555ELD is the battery doesn't fit. When Yair gave me a demo a few years ago, he did say they were developing a slimmer battery, but when I popped into Peartree last year, was told this hadn't happened.
My next back may well be a Leaf as I do like them, for use on 503 and view cameras. But due to nutty upgrade prices, I suspect I'll get a refurb ap II 7 or 75s for the same money and keep my P1.
I'm glad Fujiblad keep developing backs for Vs, but not making it rotatable seems such a missed opportunity on the V platform. I was initially surprised, but then again not, as I guess they design everything landscape for the Hs. The ability to use a back on a 200 would be appealing though.
Cheers
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Viewfinders, you must be joking. For the 500 and 200 series cameras there are -
Waistlevel finder and magnifier
90 degree prisms
45 degree prisms
Magnifying Hood (Chimney Finder)
Frame Sports Finders
And a zillion interchangeable screens.
One of the very nicest 45 deg prisms is the old NC2, with a wonderful large exit pupil.
John
Hi there John,
Can you please tell me if the Chimney Finder shows 100% of the viewfinder? Is it as bright as using a WLF? It certainly has a good use with digital backs. Or does it just give you a bright patch in the middle and a dark vignette?
Thanks,
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Hi there John,
Can you please tell me if the Chimney Finder shows 100% of the viewfinder? Is it as bright as using a WLF? It certainly has a good use with digital backs. Or does it just give you a bright patch in the middle and a dark vignette?
Thanks,
My chimney finder (which naturally is a vintage item) is very good indeed. There is no vignetting, you get a 100% view, it is just as bright as the WLF and the eyepiece has a decent size exit pupil and a variable diopter adjustment (which means that I can use it without wearing my spectacles). And yes, it works just fine with a digital back.
John
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My chimney finder (which naturally is a vintage item) is very good indeed. There is no vignetting, you get a 100% view, it is just as bright as the WLF and the eyepiece has a decent size exit pupil and a variable diopter adjustment (which means that I can use it without wearing my spectacles). And yes, it works just fine with a digital back.
I did try a chimney, but found it didn't magnify enough. The older ones are 2.5x. The later ones were 3x and what with ageing eyesight and having just bought a diopter for the WLF, have been thinking about a chimney again. During ebay searches, I came across this from Hartblei:
http://www.hartblei.kiev.ua/hartblei-hasselblad-magnifying-hood-finder-52-x-52.html
4x is closer to the WLF, but he 52x52 doesn't sound big enough and not sure to what it's referring too. It looks like it might be worth a try, for the money. I may drop them a line...
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Yes, Paul's correct, magnification is a problem. It is with the prisms, too, as they are just 3x. In fact, the WLF is best in this respect, at 4x magnification. This has only really become an issue in recent years, with the advent of digital backs and their forensic treatment of focus.
But it all depends on your intended use, as well. I always use the chimney finder on a tripod for still-life and close up work, and because I use the longer lenses for this (120 and 150mm) they are a lot easier to focus with, especially close in. You certainly would not want to use the chimney finder with the Distagon wide-angles for landscape or architecture, where spot focus was critical.
The best screens are also essential, of course. For digital you must use the latest Acute Matte screens, and some folks find the ones with the split prism helpful.
John
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I didn't realize the mag was less than a WLF.
Something like this or more would be good at 5.5x But I wonder if you see 100%
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/132741-REG/Hasselblad_72534_Magnifying_Hood_4x4_DPS.html
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I did try a chimney, but found it didn't magnify enough. The older ones are 2.5x. The later ones were 3x and what with ageing eyesight and having just bought a diopter for the WLF, have been thinking about a chimney again. During ebay searches, I came across this from Hartblei:
http://www.hartblei.kiev.ua/hartblei-hasselblad-magnifying-hood-finder-52-x-52.html
4x is closer to the WLF, but he 52x52 doesn't sound big enough and not sure to what it's referring too. It looks like it might be worth a try, for the money. I may drop them a line...
Have just been googling about these. It seems the 52x52 is the coverage area. So you don't see 100%. So that 5.5x mag you only see 4cm square image. The 5.5x Blad one is called a "hasselblad magnifying hood 4x4 dps"
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I didn't realize the mag was less than a WLF.
Something like this or more would be good at 5.5x But I wonder if you see 100%
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/132741-REG/Hasselblad_72534_Magnifying_Hood_4x4_DPS.html
The 72534 is no good with recent digital backs. It was intended for use with the old 16 MP square sensors. And that is the field of view - 40x40mm.
John
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Have just been googling about these. It seems the 52x52 is the coverage area. So you don't see 100%.
Well, as my chip is 48mm I guess that might be worth a punt. I have 3 Acute Matte screens, grid with split, cross hair with split and microprism and plain cross hair. I find the splits, grids and microprism just get in the way of the image, so much prefer plain.
The other Hasselblad one worth looking out for is the Hasselblad Magnifying Hood HM-2:
http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=detailsdisc&sku=HSMH2
Slightly higher mag at 3.3x.
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Hasselblad makes a mint on all its products. Actual hard costs are likely near 10% of SRP.
Their business model reminds me of DeBeers, given they don't make a lot of each product,
and it seems to me to create something of an artificial supply shortage. I have to give
them credit for having the huevos to put $17K SRP on a CFV-50 that i doubt costs them more
than $2k in parts to make.
I recently was comparing cost per good picture via film or CCD, and came to the conclusion
that with today's high digital back systems (CFV-39, etc), a digital back is basically like
prepaying all my film costs for the next 5-10 years. Granted, the desire to avoid the
develop and scan "insanity" :-) makes me think of taking the plunge, but its not like
my solar array, which while it is like prepaying for electricity, it comes with a much
more generous tax credit and guaranteed after tax ROI in the form of elec savings
that increase with the rate of inflation....basically.
much tougher to take a great pic with the solar array though :-)
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a digital back is basically like prepaying all my film costs for the next 5-10 years.
it depends on how much you shoot obviously but if you shoot a lot within 1-2 years you will rather quickly get to the point where MFD becomes cheaper than MFF
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Hasselblad makes a mint on all its products. Actual hard costs are likely near 10% of SRP.
Their business model reminds me of DeBeers, given they don't make a lot of each product,
and it seems to me to create something of an artificial supply shortage. I have to give
them credit for having the huevos to put $17K SRP on a CFV-50 that i doubt costs them more
than $2k in parts to make.
What a lot of nonsense.
Where are you getting these numbers from?
Nick-T
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The sensor, KAF-50100, costed back at the release 2008 $3500 in quantity. With those kind of component prices a back will not be cheap.
Here in Sweden the price of a CFV-50 is exactly the same as a Phase One P45+ (39 megapixel), so you get more pixels per dollar with the hasselblad :-). A bit unfortunate though is that Hasselblad has not designed the back to do long exposures, which I guess the sensor itself is capable of.
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Hi everyone. Thank you for for sharing your expertise in this informative thread. I'm from the old generation coming from film and have a good selection of Hasselblad V bodies and lenses. I'm retired with no way to amortize or easily afford a new digital back. The suggestion to buy used from a wealthy amateur or similar source sounds very practical. Can any one of point me in the right direction where to begin looking? Is the CV 50 used on offer anywhere yet? Or is it still too new? How much would I save on the new price? Or is a CV 39 the only option? I live in Europe so the US market is impractical, both for the high import duties and taxes I would have to pay and, I guess, for future service facilities should they become necessary.
cfv-39 and cfv-50 still carry high prices second hand. Hasselblad backs are tough to come by second hand too, phase one is the easiest, then leaf. "For sale" forums here and getdpi.com are places to look, as well as ebay. Buying pre-owned from a dealer is for the nice feel of safety, but the prices are often not very good. It depends how much that safety is worth to you.
Buying second hand is a risk, if something breaks it will cost you. These things are expensive to repair. I have not looked into what the actual cost is if you buy from a dealer though, repairs are not free I think... and you can surely make at least one €3000 repair for the price difference. If you are used to buying second hand gear and taking the risks it means I think you should consider that as an option.