Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Doug Peterson on August 23, 2010, 02:09:45 pm
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Hot off the presses:
Summary
(http://www.captureintegration.com/wp-content/uploads/vgrip-air-11.jpg)
Read More and See Explanatory Videos
http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/08/23/phase-one-v-grip-air/ (http://www.captureintegration.com/2010/08/23/phase-one-v-grip-air/)
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
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OK Hassie - the bar has been set...
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Very nice, this is the kind of quality innovation I hope we'll see in the next generation of backs too.
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Wow this is brilliant. A nice upgrade for the DF. And its not that heavy either: Weight: 364g without batteries and strap.
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is everyone fine with Phase limiting the use for Profoto Air?
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is everyone fine with Phase limiting the use for Profoto Air?
Looks like you can buy the transceiver and get it to work with other strobes...
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Looks like you can buy the transceiver and get it to work with other strobes...
That's correct, see also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL4DSFKRTkE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL4DSFKRTkE)
Yair
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LoL.... I have 10 D1 Air's, the transceiver, the USB dongle to connect to the laptop and the P65+. Ironically I got rid of my 645 DF.
Shame I don't have any use for one. I did get Arca to make me a cold shoe adapter, so at least I can mount the transceiver atop the Rm3d...
Funny.
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Is it ok to make it specific to Profoto Air? Well to be fair you have to look at what other companies have done that have incorporated wireless flash sync into their camera grip. O wait - Phase One is the first to do it :).
Seriously though: the choice to go with the Air system rather than, say PocketWizard, shows it's benefits in the 1/1600 WIRELESS flash sync. The benefits of a Leaf Shutter lens are partly/largely wasted when you can only sync (with full power) at 1/400th as is the case with PocketWizard Plus II. This will be the first system allowing full studio strobe power to sync at 1/1600. Canon/Nikon solutions for high-speed sync (e.g. PocketWizard TT1/TT5) all drastically reduce the maximum power of the flash unit to allow fast sync speeds often leading to two or even four nikon/canon flashes being placed in an umbrella and/or compromises on what kind of light shaping devices (softboxes/diffusers etc) are used to work around the lower maximum output. With this you'd be able to sync Profoto D1 (Air receiver built in) at 1/1600 at full power allowing you to use whatever light shaping device you want.
This, at least, according to the spec sheet. We always like to get our hands on newly announced gear to assess it's real world performance. Stay tuned for just those tests when the units ship in late September.
[font="Arial"]Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) ("[email protected]")
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/")
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/")
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/")
Personal Work (http://"http://www.doug-peterson.com/")
[/font]
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I'm sure you can still put a pocket wizard on the hot shoe like you would already... but doug is right, the Profoto Air is a better system. If Phase is going to incorporate a system, it makes sense to go with the best.
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Hi everybody! This is my first post on this forum, and I'm looking forward to read and write many more in the future..
Besides taking my master in corporate finance, I'm working at Phase Ones test lab in Copenhagen, Denmark. I just wanted to say, that I'm glad that you are all positive about what we have spend a lot of hours testing the past month.
Two weeks ago, I decided to begin writing a blog about all that high end photo gear that I'm testing + some gadgets. I thought that this forum would probably be a good one to hijack some readers from, so if you are interested in cool new gear, and to be the first to be informed about new product from P1, please check it out www.photogear.dk (http://www.photogear.dk).
I hope that everybody is fine with me, doing some advertising for my blog :)
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Mamiya should be commended for the grip. It's much needed in any format and I hope it all works as planned.
Just looking at the visual the one thing I don't get is the handstrap that goes underneath the camera. If you shoot horizontal on a tripod your gonna have to go strapless and nobody wants to hold anything expensive strapless.
(Well at least not a camera).
BC
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I watched all the vidz at CI...very nicely thought out indeed. Love the integrated Arca L plate...why aren't they all like this?
One question - does this only work with the DF? I mean obviously the more advanced electronic functions like the USB firmware upgrade link and the wireless flash link may be DF only; but as a "dumb" grip will it fit the AFD, AFDII and AFDIII? It looks like it has the same mechanical profile as the battery unit on my AFD.
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I'm sorry to inform you, that it will only work on the 645DF :( ..
This is due to a recess inside the body, which allow the grip to connect properly.
The AFD etc. doesnt have this recess, and therefore, you won't be able to "fit" it all way up in the body.
Here are some images.
(http://photogear.dk/djohn/recess.jpg)(http://photogear.dk/djohn/recess_2.jpg)(http://photogear.dk/djohn/recess_3.jpg)
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Beautiful, so now my PhaseOne 645 AF has a RIP above her head. I can't use the schneider lenses and i can't use the vertical grip. I have to buy the DF. Now tell me, are you planning to release a new camera the next year that will have some new features like for example a GPS that will not be available for the PhaseOne DF?
I love my P45+, but i should shift to hasselblad
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Every camera manufacturer can and should release newer improved camera bodies and accessories. Hasselblad and Phase are no different here. If Hassy released a H5D, I doubt you'd find many in the Hassy camp moaning that they should have bought Phase because they have the H4D "with RIP" on its head. Each system has its own merits and produce outstanding images, regardless of whatever is the latest iteration released. The decision between the two is often personal in workflow. While continuity is appreciated in being able to use all accessories/equipment across the camera line, I understand that advances in technology can sometimes preclude that capability. The loss of filmback use on the DF is one example, and a worthwhile tradeoff at the same time.
The differences between the earlier Mamiya-Phase bodies was somewhat minor. The upgrade from the Phase 645AF body to the Phase 645DF body is substantial and worthwhile, independent of accessories such as the new V grip.
:) ken
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I think your point of view is interesting and also true, i belive you are right. But i also feel frustrated by the fact that i alredy put much money on the system, i'd like to expand the perfomance of my camera but i can't do it changing every year a 5000 euro body. And we are simply talking about accessories! I can understand that the DF is a better camera, never tested one, but i can understand it. What i don't understand is why in the world i have to buy a new body just to use the new accessories... This is frustrating...
The medium format land is made of much money, i invested on phaseone and in my mind i thought, ok today i get the body, the back and few lenses; tomorrow another lens and so on. This thought is over, i can't pay 20.000 euro per year for my camera system
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I sympathise with Michele. "Open platform" rings hollow when backward compatibility is being continually eroded. It pisses off existing brand loyalists, and greatly discourages new potential users going through the process of wondering if they should invest into the system.
Question to PhaseOne: maybe this one is soluble. If as you say the only thing preventing use of this V-grip on the older bodies is the shape of the bit sticking out the top of the battery holder, could you produce (with minimal additional R&D) a version with that little bit modified so as to fit the pre-DF series? Think of the size of the established pre-DF user base...I think it makes business sense.
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Just a FYI Phase did offer all Phase owners within the year of there purchase ( I think it was last June) the upgrade to the DF for 1500 dollars from the AFDIII. Can't remember all the dates and details but I was able to do this and I thought it was a good business decision
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Michele,
I consider myself lucky to have been able to take advantage of the Phase "DF Upgrade from AF" offer that Guy Mancuso mentions. And your frustration is absolutely understandable. It's probably not much consolation that IMO, the DF body is the first to really mark limitations of use of some accessories (V grip) or capabilities (flash sync) in the Phase/Mamiya bodies. It is expensive no matter how you want to look at it. The Phase 645AF is still nothing to sneeze at, but perhaps this would be a great time for Phase to run another "DF Upgrade" Promotion...
:) ken
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Have to admit the DF made the difference to me as to hold or move on. I needed the speed and I also need that shutter delay to go away badly. I was missing action shots and that was not good. The DF is not perfect and frankly none of them are but it is worth the upgrade and after getting the P40+ i feel I have the best system for me and not wanting for much. Okay I want all the LS glass but that is a different story and obviously we all want to see progression in the bodies but we need to remember if a company plows forward sometimes it is not always easy to go back to the legacy gear and support it. Bottom line end of day and someone mentioned this all this stuff is somewhat legacy film days and we don't even need a shutter curtain anymore. As time marches on the OEM's will start designing stuff that is purely new and electronic and not based on anything in the past and a lot of that stuff will not get the new tech support. I have been doing digital since 1990 and that is 20 years ago and we are still stuck on film based cams and lenses. This will change for the better but we maybe stuck with upgrading faster as well. Just like computers it is part of the business and honestly as much as it may hurt us we have to support it also.
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At least with the Phase One open system your digital back and lenses (the heft of your investment) can be used with a new body if/when you choose to upgrade your body. You can keep your 45+ and upgrade your body to get faster/better AF speed, better ergonomics, better mirror dampening, some great custom functions, leaf shutter lenses, and a vertical grip. In a closed system the digital back and body must be upgraded together or not at all. You can also use your AF body as a backup with your back whereas if you have to upgrade back and body together your old body cannot be used with the new back.
Doug Peterson (e-mail Me) ("[email protected]")
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/")
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/")
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://"http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/")
Personal Work (http://"http://www.doug-peterson.com/")
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how many times you wanna tell us how great it is to have an 'open system'
when all the stuff that was proudly announced just 2 years ago at photokina for the afd III (leaf shutter lenses, grip...)
does not fit on this camera - which makes it necessary to buy the next one.
its pretty rediculous and by the way, maybe phase one owners have been able to get an upgrade for 1500$,
nobody from mamiya ever approached me regarding a swap.
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i guess if they had made this compatible with the old, it would have lost a few features. two years ago, leaf and mamiya wasn't owned by phase so wouldn't have taken their batteries , there was no such thing as a "air sync". there was no leaf shutter for the high sync capability.
also, the camera body is only a part of an expensive system- cheaper than some of the lenses. seems ok to update that every now and then.
paul
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well, if you take a look at a portrait of Richard avedon by Annie Leibovitz you can see Him in 2002 with his camera. A 8x10" Sinar maybe 35 years old. Now, i know we can't expect to keep a digital back for so long, neither a medium format body. But when i see that photo I see a man that doesn't care about his camera, he cares about his vision and doing beautiful photographs. he uses a camera like an instrument. Three weeks ago my phaseone 80mm stopped working, i have to wait till september to fix it. When i take in my hand my camera i ask myself: is it going to work or is it going to explode in my hands? Well, i just want to relax and think how to be a better photographer, and having a new camera with a vertical grip is not going to make me a better photographer. I'm going to spend that money working on my portfolio.
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well, if you take a look at a portrait of Richard avedon by Annie Leibovitz you can see Him in 2002 with his camera. A 8x10" Sinar maybe 35 years old. Now, i know we can't expect to keep a digital back for so long, neither a medium format body. But when i see that photo I see a man that doesn't care about his camera, he cares about his vision and doing beautiful photographs. he uses a camera like an instrument. Three weeks ago my phaseone 80mm stopped working, i have to wait till september to fix it. When i take in my hand my camera i ask myself: is it going to work or is it going to explode in my hands? Well, i just want to relax and think how to be a better photographer, and having a new camera with a vertical grip is not going to make me a better photographer. I'm going to spend that money working on my portfolio.
well, if you take a look at a portrait of Richard avedon by Annie Leibovitz you can see Him in 2002 with his camera. A 8x10" Sinar maybe 35 years old. Now, i know we can't expect to keep a digital back for so long, neither a medium format body. But when i see that photo I see a man that doesn't care about his camera, he cares about his vision and doing beautiful photographs. he uses a camera like an instrument. Three weeks ago my phaseone 80mm stopped working, i have to wait till september to fix it. When i take in my hand my camera i ask myself: is it going to work or is it going to explode in my hands? Well, i just want to relax and think how to be a better photographer, and having a new camera with a vertical grip is not going to make me a better photographer. I'm going to spend that money working on my portfolio.
richard avedon is a great artist, but hardly a model of a professional commercial photographer. Few of have the ability and luck to reach his level of work, and there really isn't the room in the industry to fit too many people at that level.
anyone who has ever used a 8 x 10 sinar is very much into the technical side, as well as choosing a format that has a very unique look . it was the finest equipment of the time. but a bloody difficult format to use. limited and difficult, it wasn't an "easy" option.
and a vertical grip wont make you a great photographer, but its all part of getting the "technical" side out of the way. it just helps make life easier day to day. try holding a camera for an 18 day shoot thats all vertical without a vertical grip, its hard work.
i started shooting large format, medium format film, but since we have moved to digital- even with all its teething problems, life has been so much less stressful.
no worrying, waiting for clip tests at the lab. being able to know you have the shot on the day of the shoot- and being able to walk into another shoot the next day. digital doesnt have all the unnecessary waste of what film had- sometimes there would two sacks full of wrappers and film junk left after every day (except nowdays its been replaced with water bottles!).
all these things really have made me be able to think about what is important- taking great shots. and may of these shots are actually technically impossible to have shot back in avedons day, all because technology.
i dream of a day where all this technology has its hay-day, and cameras, computers all work together seamlessly to do everything i want, so i really can concentrate on the most important thing, taking a great photo. all these little improvements like the grip are worth it.
paul