Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: amsp on February 18, 2010, 02:27:12 pm
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I'm no techie, but I was just wondering with today's wireless technology wouldn't it be possible to make a wireless transmitter that plugs into a digital back? Are manufacturers like PhaseOne and Hasselblad looking at this at all? I would love to be able to shoot tethered to a laptop without the annoying cable.
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Phase One have indicated at different times that they were working on it and may have even had a working prototype. The problem is that to transfer very large files at an acceptable speed wirelessly requires different technology than is widely available and likely requires use of a different part of the wireless spectrum. New wireless technology requires a wide variety of international approval and sometimes the purchase of spectrum space if it uses an allocated portion of the spectrum.
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Right now it's not possible.
Just try to use CF card... simple as the use of film....
Best regards,
Design Freak
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I'm no techie, but I was just wondering with today's wireless technology wouldn't it be possible to make a wireless transmitter that plugs into a digital back? Are manufacturers like PhaseOne and Hasselblad looking at this at all? I would love to be able to shoot tethered to a laptop without the annoying cable.
Have you ever used the Canon wireless solution? It CAN work, but it's a pain, very very slow to transmit raws, and is very prone to configuration errors, interference, and other problems. I say this as a Canon dealer having set this up with several customers. Again it can be made to work and has some advantages, but whereas wired tethered capture in Capture One is plug and play, fast, and bullet proof, wireless tethered capture (with Canon) is none of these things.
I DREAM of wireless Phase. But I wouldn't hold your breath.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
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Have you ever used the Canon wireless solution? It CAN work, but it's a pain, very very slow to transmit raws, and is very prone to configuration errors, interference, and other problems. I say this as a Canon dealer having set this up with several customers. Again it can be made to work and has some advantages, but whereas wired tethered capture in Capture One is plug and play, fast, and bullet proof, wireless tethered capture (with Canon) is none of these things.
I DREAM of wireless Phase. But I wouldn't hold your breath.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
its a bit of a shame. i could imagine a feature like that keeping medium format very appealing if it was seamless. one of the few USP's that backs could offer over canon.
i can remember a while back a photo of a prototype wireless phase back with a fat Ariel where the battery was. i wonder how that went.
paul
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tethered capture in Capture One is plug and play, fast, and bullet proof...
ahem, since "upgrading" my MBP to a unit with FW800 only, I experience 3-5 "Fire Wire Errors" a day. I had never even heard of these when shooting FW400 to FW 400.
By the way, just for fun, I decided to shoot this week to a 10k rpm external drive connected through eSATA via ExpressCard adapter. Capture has worked quite well and C1 Pro seems a little more responsive working off the faster drive.
-CB
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ahem, since "upgrading" my MBP to a unit with FW800 only, I experience 3-5 "Fire Wire Errors" a day. I had never even heard of these when shooting FW400 to FW 400.
maybe take an adapter FW800 to FW400 tape it on the laptop and use a FW400 cable... doesn't look nice, but works nice.
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ahem, since "upgrading" my MBP to a unit with FW800 only, I experience 3-5 "Fire Wire Errors" a day. I had never even heard of these when shooting FW400 to FW 400.
Have you tried changing "Menu > Configuration > Battery > " to Battery instead of Autodetect. Very likely your error is related to having insufficient/inconsistent firewire voltage on the new laptop. Running from the battery should solve this issue for you. If not I'd try changing firewire cables or try a friend's laptop to see if the cable or firewire bus is defective.
I assume you're using one of our (Capture Integration's) FW800-400 cables. If not, it's a worthwhile buy since all of our testing/troubleshooting is with these cables and in a very wide variety of back/computer combinations they have been extremely reliable.
Our company has several of the new MBP with FW800 only and I can report that Phase tethering remains rock solid (though, as before with various laptop models, you sometimes have to change that setting so the back runs off battery power).
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
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maybe take an adapter FW800 to FW400 tape it on the laptop and use a FW400 cable... doesn't look nice, but works nice.
We sell a Sonnet 800-400 adapter as well.
I don't like them nearly as much as our native 400-800 cable. One more connection that can get jarred lose, wear out, or otherwise screw up.
That said they let you use existing expensive longer 400-400 cables.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
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One more connection that can get jarred lose, wear out, or otherwise screw up.
basically you are right. However in my adapter the FW400 snaps in and fits very tight - the strain on the FW800 port (though taped) is still much higher than on the front end. And if the adapter breaks... who cares, they cost nearly nothing.
Of course you could also tape the actual cable to the laptop. But that's not really handy.
FW800 is PITA...
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basically you are right. However in my adapter the FW400 snaps in and fits very tight - the strain on the FW800 port (though taped) is still much higher than on the front end. And if the adapter breaks... who cares, they cost nearly nothing.
Of course you could also tape the actual cable to the laptop. But that's not really handy.
FW800 is PITA...
It's been downhill since SCSI. Remember SCSI? ROCK SOLID connectors.
Seems like every generation of cables gets worse and worse.
SCSI > Ethernet > FW400 > FW800 > eSATA.
Probably when FW3200 gets to be mainstream the connection will be a single thread of cat hair which a small breeze could knock free.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
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It's been downhill since SCSI. Remember SCSI? ROCK SOLID connectors.
something like BNC with bayonet would be nice.
Unfortunately wrong system :-)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/BNC_connector.jpg/220px-BNC_connector.jpg)
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Have you ever used the Canon wireless solution? It CAN work, but it's a pain, very very slow to transmit raws, and is very prone to configuration errors, interference, and other problems. I say this as a Canon dealer having set this up with several customers. Again it can be made to work and has some advantages, but whereas wired tethered capture in Capture One is plug and play, fast, and bullet proof, wireless tethered capture (with Canon) is none of these things.
I DREAM of wireless Phase. But I wouldn't hold your breath.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
I wonder whether it would be feasible to just send the JPG preview wireless and write the actual RAW to CF.
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Have you ever used the Canon wireless solution? It CAN work, but it's a pain, very very slow to transmit raws, and is very prone to configuration errors, interference, and other problems. I say this as a Canon dealer having set this up with several customers. Again it can be made to work and has some advantages, but whereas wired tethered capture in Capture One is plug and play, fast, and bullet proof, wireless tethered capture (with Canon) is none of these things.
I have it and have used it, but far less frequently than I hoped to when I dropped $1000 on it. The time it came in most handy was when we shot for a local designer on a 24 foot sail boat. The designer demanded oversight of images as they were being shot, and this allowed me to set up a laptop below deck for her to review. But it also created a massive problem, as the files took long enough to download that by the time the file came up on the screen, we were many frames (and poses) ahead, but the designer would shout up micro-managing instructions like "move your left leg up a bit" - which would make no sense given what we were doing. Anyway, it was kind of crazy, and super frustrating for me and the model.
B
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Doug,
In my few shoots so far with the P40+ shooting to a Macbook Pro with only FW800, I've had a number of errors as well. I was told before I began to ensure I was running 'battery only', and have done so without fail. One thing I've found, however, is that some of the 'errors' are apparent only in the displayed JPG, and when I power down the laptop and restart, or when I shut down C1 and restart, the files I thought had been corrupted are back to looking fine, leading me to believe that the problem is just with the jpg and that somehow C1 recognizes this when setting up the previews a second time.
Have you tried changing "Menu > Configuration > Battery > " to Battery instead of Autodetect. Very likely your error is related to having insufficient/inconsistent firewire voltage on the new laptop. Running from the battery should solve this issue for you. If not I'd try changing firewire cables or try a friend's laptop to see if the cable or firewire bus is defective.
I assume you're using one of our (Capture Integration's) FW800-400 cables. If not, it's a worthwhile buy since all of our testing/troubleshooting is with these cables and in a very wide variety of back/computer combinations they have been extremely reliable.
Our company has several of the new MBP with FW800 only and I can report that Phase tethering remains rock solid (though, as before with various laptop models, you sometimes have to change that setting so the back runs off battery power).
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
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In my few shoots so far with the P40+ shooting to a Macbook Pro with only FW800, I've had a number of errors as well. I was told before I began to ensure I was running 'battery only', and have done so without fail. One thing I've found, however, is that some of the 'errors' are apparent only in the displayed JPG, and when I power down the laptop and restart, or when I shut down C1 and restart, the files I thought had been corrupted are back to looking fine, leading me to believe that the problem is just with the jpg and that somehow C1 recognizes this when setting up the previews a second time.
Talk with your dealer and find out the cause. Because whatever it is I put my reputation on the fact it can be found and fixed (e.g. bad firewire cable replaced). That combination can be absolutely-put-your-job-on-the-line reliable.
Doug Peterson ()
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Leaf, Cambo, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)
Buy Capture One at 10% off (http://www.captureintegration.com/phase-one/buy-capture-one/)
Personal Work (http://www.doug-peterson.com/)
-
ahem, since "upgrading" my MBP to a unit with FW800 only, I experience 3-5 "Fire Wire Errors" a day. I had never even heard of these when shooting FW400 to FW 400.
By the way, just for fun, I decided to shoot this week to a 10k rpm external drive connected through eSATA via ExpressCard adapter. Capture has worked quite well and C1 Pro seems a little more responsive working off the faster drive.
-CB
It's not good idea to use capture destination on external HDD. Try to mount very speed drive as start-up disk. I use SSD drive in my Mac Pro and my machine have a new live.
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It is true that the firewire cables are problems. In my opinion, is a question of quality. Plug-FW800 quickly consume. You should not save on cables. It always takes vengeance on the user. In general, I consider the sense of using this type of cable to the camera, cables were not designed for such loads (resistance to twisting, crushing, etc.). I wonder if a more industrial solution would be better, certainly not cheaper, but our work has to be less stressful. I look with envy at fellow filmmakers who use the ARRI cameras. Perhaps a system based on FC, I saw very resistant braided steel cable, would solve the problem known starters power, but it's probably the smallest problem. What's colleagues think about this?
Best regards,
DF
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The best solution for my company who rent equipment to treat the cable as part of operating. Charge for the cost of cable equipment prices. At each session using a new cable. It's the only way to less stress jobs.
Best regards,
DF
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maybe take an adapter FW800 to FW400 tape it on the laptop and use a FW400 cable... doesn't look nice, but works nice.
i've used a sonnet adapter, and had some trouble !
now i'm using a 400-800 cable provide by leaf, it sounds good.
It would be nice to have a small device that will be connected to the back via firewire that will send a full res jpeg to an iphone... like the leaf capture app... but the leaf system require a computer...
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The main issue with wireless, is that even though it is technically possible, it is most likely not with what is available today.
So if we/Phase One/Leaf etc were to design a proprietary system you would then need to make transmitter and receiver...
Plus it would take an age to get it through worldwide approval for transmission.
IF laptops become widely available with next gen wireless with high speed transfer, then perhaps it is a possibility.
However, as I have said before, the easy work around (in Hasseblad's case) is to send a fast Jpeg from the host tethered computer to the irritating art directors computer. You only need a basic wireless network for that.
David