Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Digital Cameras & Shooting Techniques => Topic started by: dwdallam on December 14, 2009, 04:50:45 pm
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The price difference between the Canon 50D and Rebel is about 100-150US, so why would anyone buy the Rebel? I wonder if the Rebel is going to be phased out and replaced by the 50D series camera, especially with the release of the 7D.
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Dunno. The user interface is quite different. The build quality, too -- I expect the 50D is significantly more expensive to build.
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The price difference between the Canon 50D and Rebel is about 100-150US, so why would anyone buy the Rebel? I wonder if the Rebel is going to be phased out and replaced by the 50D series camera, especially with the release of the 7D.
I made the opposite decision when I was upgrading from 30D - I went for 450D instead. At that time the price difference between 450D and 40D was quite substantial, and I couldn't see much benefit from going to 40D.
But currently considering 7D for the UI improvements alone.
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The price difference between the Canon 50D and Rebel is about 100-150US, so why would anyone buy the Rebel? I wonder if the Rebel is going to be phased out and replaced by the 50D series camera, especially with the release of the 7D.
Smaller and lighter and more P&S user tuned.
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Smaller and lighter and more P&S user tuned.
First two were big factors for my choice. And 450D has most of the bells and whistles one needs, including bracketing and MLU.
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First two were big factors for my choice. And 450D has most of the bells and whistles one needs, including bracketing and MLU.
Remember, I said at only 100-150US more. The 50D can be set up to print and shoot. It's called Auto. ( I jest , but you see my point).
Would any of you but the Rebel instead of the 50D given only a 100-150US difference?
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I use a 50D and have some friends with Rebels. The general quality feel of the 50D is much higher than the mostly plastic feel of the Rebel. The rebel series doesn't have the wheel on the back that makes control much easier. It also doesn't have the small lcd on the top of the camera. In general, the rebel requires you to go through menus for most things. This is a real impediment to working quickly in the field. With the 50D, most stuff can be done on the fly....EV compensation is only one of the things that is much easier. Program mode with combination of EV compensation while rotating through available shutter speed/aperture combos is very valuable. 50D also has much higher rate of fire than rebels. I would say that the 150 premium is easily worth it, but that many people are very $$$ driven, so they want a cheap option. What I don't get is the large variety of low-end cameras. The T1i and other Rebel both seem to be kind of redundant.
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Remember, I said at only 100-150US more. The 50D can be set up to print and shoot. It's called Auto. ( I jest , but you see my point).
Would any of you but the Rebel instead of the 50D given only a 100-150US difference?
Yeah. Light weight is worth $$. The physical therapy on my back and neck has been about $125 per session.
Beyond that I know a lot of people who simply would not purchase a camera that big. They aren't happy with a camera the size of the 450D.
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Would any of you but the Rebel instead of the 50D given only a 100-150US difference?
Yes, me, mainly for the plastic (ie the lighter weight), and a bit for the bulk too. And also because 100$ bills don't grow up on trees, at least not by me.
Btw, that made me check B&H prices : I saw more price difference, even more if one compares the 50d (900$ body only) with the 450d/Xsi (500$ body only) as both have LV but no video...
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Hi,
I have been using the 450d for about a year now and have been quite impressed with the camera in general. Image quality, I think, is good enough. Compared to my first digital, a 20d the resolution was 'just right' for me. But I do notice more noise even at low iso's. Have been using it a lot lately doing literally hundreds of packshots for a website. Using live view and man focus. Worked great. Got a 5d2 two weeks ago with the 24-105 zoom. Fantastic feel and build quality. But very heavy and bulky.
The 450 with a 35mm f2 is very light and small, like a poor mans leica... The 50d is more like the 5d2. also I have this 'feeling' that 12mp is the optimum for 1.6 crop camera, as is about22mp for full size. (Compared to my ZD the image quality is not quite there yet. although I have not made intensive tests) The new id mkiv also has 12mp x1.3. Had a look at the 7d and was not totally convinced. My bet is that a new 2000?d or whatever with 12mp and the latest canon technology will be 'good enough'.
I think we are entering a period, like in the days of film, where there is a lot of different cameras for different applications. In my case, the ZD with shift lens & tripod for slower contemplative personal work(in B&W). The 450d for packshots, PR etc work where the ultimate quality is not necessary. 5d for the bulk of professional work, high iso needs etc. G9 works nice as a carry anywhere. Works well when travelling, people dont notice it and, at 80iso quality is nice for big prints.
So even if the price difference is small, as a second and back up camera I would rather have a 450d than a 50d.....
Regards, Ivan
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The price difference between the Canon 50D and Rebel is about 100-150US, so why would anyone buy the Rebel? I wonder if the Rebel is going to be phased out and replaced by the 50D series camera, especially with the release of the 7D.
Where are you getting that price difference? At B&H, the most expensive Rebel body only is the T1i (500D) at $609, vs $941 for the 50D body only: a $332 difference.
Anyway, stepping out of the stratospheric pricing most often relevant in this forum, $100-150 would already be enough to encourage many people to prefer the Rebel T1i/500D, especially given that the advantages of the 50D are not high on most consumer-level SLR buyers' wish lists (higher frame rate, slightly larger VF image, more weight ...)
Imagine that you are a sales assistant in Best Buy, and try to explain why the bigger, heavier, more expensive 50D which lacks the video recording ability of the Rebel T1i and has the same pixel count is a better choice than the Rebel T1i.
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Where are you getting that price difference? At B&H, the most expensive Rebel body only is the T1i (500D) at $609, vs $941 for the 50D body only: a $332 difference.
Anyway, stepping out of the stratospheric pricing most often relevant in this forum, $100-150 would already be enough to encourage many people to prefer the Rebel T1i/500D, especially given that the advantages of the 50D are not high on most consumer-level SLR buyers' wish lists (higher frame rate, slightly larger VF image, more weight ...)
Imagine that you are a sales assistant in Best Buy, and try to explain why the bigger, heavier, more expensive 50D which lacks the video recording ability of the Rebel T1i and has the same pixel count is a better choice than the Rebel T1i.
Those are good reasons. I did get the price from B&H assuming they would be inline with others. I would tell the shoppers that if they are more serious about photography, then they should purchase the 50D and then explain why. Those are good reasons though. especially since you point out the true difference between the 50D and the T1i is not 150 but 330.00US difference. I didn't realize the 50D didn't have video capability.
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G'day,
I'm a beginner and have just bought the 500D. Price aside, I liked the light weight, small size and esp. the HD video. If I have regrets it would be that I didn't save up for the 7D (ie the ultimate spec crop canon). I couldn't really see where the 50D fitted in.
Cheers,
bradf
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I would tell the shoppers that if they are more serious about photography, then they should purchase the 50D and then explain why.
And if a salesman told me that I'd tell them they're full of shit.
I guess that's why I shop my cameras online...
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And if a salesman told me that I'd tell them they're full of shit.
I guess that's why I shop my cameras online...
And you'd be wrong, for simplicity of operation (navigation) alone.
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The price difference between the Canon 50D and Rebel is about 100-150US, so why would anyone buy the Rebel? I wonder if the Rebel is going to be phased out and replaced by the 50D series camera, especially with the release of the 7D.
I would and did. Because I don't have deep pockets and have to make do with what I can afford.
For me personally, I didn't see that the 50D did much extra that I cared about anyway. I take 99% of my shots from a tripod so the small size only means lighter to carry around for me and the faster shots per second is irrelevant. I hear build quality as an argument a lot, but I have a friend who has a 40D that I've handled a lot and I never saw what the big deal was. I don't throw my camera around so as long as it doesn't fall apart in my hands it can be made out of paper mache for all I care.
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I would and did. Because I don't have deep pockets and have to make do with what I can afford.
For me personally, I didn't see that the 50D did much extra that I cared about anyway. I take 99% of my shots from a tripod so the small size only means lighter to carry around for me and the faster shots per second is irrelevant. I hear build quality as an argument a lot, but I have a friend who has a 40D that I've handled a lot and I never saw what the big deal was. I don't throw my camera around so as long as it doesn't fall apart in my hands it can be made out of paper mache for all I care.
I fell down a hill with my original digital rebel. I tomahawked that bastard into the hill. Took me a bit to vacuum the dirt out of the dials but the camera was just fine. I bounced a tripod once and dropped my 20D about 2 feet. The 20D required $300. The lens on it another $150.
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And you'd be wrong, for simplicity of operation (navigation) alone.
Depends on what you're doing. Now for what YOU'RE doing I would agree. For a lot of people it doesn't need to do much more than hold a sensor up behind the lens.
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Depends on what you're doing. Now for what YOU'RE doing I would agree. For a lot of people it doesn't need to do much more than hold a sensor up behind the lens.
Yes, but I said if you are "more serious about photography. . . ." And that is a true statement.
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Then there are the issues with pricing from the manufacturer and the dealer. It could be that a dealer has a lot of 50Ds sitting around gathering dust, and wants to get rid of them to make room for 7Ds that can be sold at a higher profit margin. So the price difference at that dealer might be artifically low. You might come back the next day and find that the price delta has changed dramatically due to factors totally unrelated to customer desire. Another dealer might sell that at different price points. A few weeks ago, I saw a new 40D on Amazon advertised for about $50 less than a new 50D. That seemed a little silly to me, but maybe someone had some specific need for a 40D, and didn't mind. Or maybe the 40D never sold.
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Yes, but I said if you are "more serious about photography. . . ." And that is a true statement.
For a lot of people who are "more serious about photography" they do not need the camera to do much. How much do you really need the camera to do if you use it to shoot landscapes? Oddly one of the more recent items makes the biggest difference - live view.
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For a lot of people who are "more serious about photography" they do not need the camera to do much. How much do you really need the camera to do if you use it to shoot landscapes? Oddly one of the more recent items makes the biggest difference - live view.
It's now all moot anyway. I found a T1i for 609 and a 50D for 939.00 and further research has these two about 300US+ difference between each other. 300 is substantial. I was mislead when I looked at B&H for the price difference of both cameras.
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And you'd be wrong, for simplicity of operation (navigation) alone.
I guess I'm doing something wrong, shooting "serious" photography for years with a 450D.
Just because your type of shooting might benefit from a 2nd scroll wheel and a top LCD, I couldn't care less about them - I didn't even realize the camera doesn't have them, and I used to shoot with a 30D and 50E before.
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I wonder if the Rebel is going to be phased out and replaced by the 50D series camera, especially with the release of the 7D.
It is the other way around, which is part of why the 50D is such a good deal now: the old no-video 50D is being discounted as it heads towards discontinuation in favor of the 7D (which is the "60D" by another name, perhaps to move away from confusion between Canon xxD and Nikon Dxx model naming?)
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The expense of the camera you shoot with isn't the critical determining factor of the quality or seriousness of your work. Great photos and great photographers work with all kind of cameras. I happen to like the ergonomic features of the 50D and feel that it is worth the extra cost.
to each his own...
As for the 7D replacing the X0D series. According to Canon, that isn't their intent. They plan to keep the 7D and continue the X0D series. While this seems like overkill in the number of different feature sets and camera bodies, they probably have minor incremental investments to keep a line of cameras going. The X0D series body has only changed superficially in each incarnation. The real expense of the camera is probably in the semiconductors and the prism, not the body. In many cases, feature differentiation is a function of software (video capture with a camera that has live preview, for example). I think they feel that they can reach more price-points with more models.
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I hear build quality as an argument a lot, but [...]
Case study : does a 50D stand a 1000m (3000ft for those who count on their feet) free fall? A 350D/RebelXT did (http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/845602).
Explainatory hypothesis : plastic absorbs shock much better than magnesium alloy.
These cases, with DarkPenguin's one above, make the "build quality" a bit of a moot point for me.
When you tell things close, there are many examples of lighter designs being tougher. Snow is falling here in the French Alps, so the first coming to my mind is this one (http://www.dynafit.com/uk/15/674/48023-TLT_Speed.html)...
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Case study : does a 50D stand a 1000m (3000ft for those who count on their feet) free fall? A 350D/RebelXT did (http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/845602).
Explainatory hypothesis : plastic absorbs shock much better than magnesium alloy.
These cases, with DarkPenguin's one above, make the "build quality" a bit of a moot point for me.
When you tell things close, there are many examples of lighter designs being tougher. Snow is falling here in the French Alps, so the first coming to my mind is this one (http://www.dynafit.com/uk/15/674/48023-TLT_Speed.html)...
You are probably right that the extra weight makes the camera more fragile when falling from a substantial height. On the other hand, most of the bumps and bruises I give my camera are from it swinging under my arm and hitting rocks and railings and stuff.
On the other hand, have you ever seen a large, heavy L lens mounted on a rebel. The balance seems like it would be quite awkward with a 24-70 L or a 100-400 L. While weight and size of the camera isn't always correlated to image quality, weight and size of lenses probably is correlated to quality.
the rebel series has never felt comfortable in my hand. Its size is certainly a factor in this.
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Explanatory hypothesis : plastic absorbs shock much better than magnesium alloy.
This is what I have heard often: polycarbonate camera body shells dissipate a good proportion of the vibrational energy generated by impacts, whereas metal body shells transmit energy more efficiently to the delicate insides of the camera. So even if the metal body itself holds up well, the camera is more likely to stop working than one protected by shock-absorbing polycarbonate.
On the other hand, for camera exposes to frequent low-level beatings, as with the well-traveled gear of many photo-journalists, a rugged metal body might last past the time when a polycarbonate shell itself breaks down.
Aside: Polycarbonate is what so-called bullet-proof glass is often made of. Using the generic description "plastic" to conjure up connotations of cheaper, far less robust polymer materials is a bit misleading.
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On the other hand, have you ever seen a large, heavy L lens mounted on a rebel. The balance seems like it would be quite awkward with a 24-70 L or a 100-400 L. While weight and size of the camera isn't always correlated to image quality, weight and size of lenses probably is correlated to quality.
I recently sold my Canon 28-105mm L lens, which I would characterize as medium-heavy. It's definitely front-heavy with a 450D, but held properly by cradling the lens with the left hand it is fine. I don't shoot long zooms (or primes), but I can imagine them getting uncomfortably unbalanced at some point.
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You are probably right that the extra weight makes the camera more fragile when falling from a substantial height. On the other hand, most of the bumps and bruises I give my camera are from it swinging under my arm and hitting rocks and railings and stuff.
On the other hand, have you ever seen a large, heavy L lens mounted on a rebel. The balance seems like it would be quite awkward with a 24-70 L or a 100-400 L. While weight and size of the camera isn't always correlated to image quality, weight and size of lenses probably is correlated to quality.
the rebel series has never felt comfortable in my hand. Its size is certainly a factor in this.
I'm currently shooting a job using the 450d and 500d, hand holding all day long with a 24-105, for days on end...expecting maybe a 100 days total, and an image count of 30k. I'm getting quite comfortable with the "keychain" cameras. I fully expect to burn the 450d to the ground on this project, but we will see how it holds up.
For the record I also own a 1DsIII and a 5d.
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When the 7D came out, the 50D became the bastard stepchild and Canon gave the dealers price support to help clear inventory. When Canon's stockpile empties, it will be removed from the catalog. Same thing happened with the XTi when the Si came out.
Most of this stuff is single batch produced. There is usually a bit of overlap from one model to the next depending on how well they gauged the inventory/demand/sales ratio. The flaky economic situation at the moment has also thrown a spanner into the equation. Canon may have been caught off guard and didn't move the number of 50D's they had counted on. Once the 7D ball got rolling, they had to sart moving them. Work on it's replacement is probably well under way by now. The manufacturers have painted themselves into a bit of a corner with this. They have to have the next version ready to market before running out of the last one.
For a lot of folks, a hundred bux may be the difference between paying the bills or not. If you don't need the next step up, why spend the extra. I spend two days a week at the store I contract with and most of the people I see buying lower/middle end DSLR's are not what I would call "serious hobbyists". Their camera is set on the green rectangle and they have no idea what shutter speeds do or what an f stop is. Before digital, they would have bought a P&S and the digital P&S seems to have become the pocket and purse camera.
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Aside: Polycarbonate is what so-called bullet-proof glass is often made of. Using the generic description "plastic" to conjure up connotations of cheaper, far less robust polymer materials is a bit misleading.
I'd rather have the pro cameras made from something like pelican cases are made from, some type of poly but strengthened ever more. They can be pretty much any color you want and thus are not prone to scratches and scuffing, along with their resilience. To get a poly skin thick enough for a pro camera would probably outweigh the magnesium though. Pelican cases are heavy.
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and the digital P&S seems to have become the pocket and purse camera.
Now it's the iPhone types of cell phones that are pocket cameras. They are plenty good for pretty darn good quality snapshots. Many are now over 3Mpx and include video.
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Now it's the iPhone types of cell phones that are pocket cameras. They are plenty good for pretty darn good quality snapshots. Many are now over 3Mpx and include video.
In Japan they've had 8+MP 3X optical zoom cameras in phones for awhile and everywhere you go people are taking phone pics and video. Speculation is that P&S cameras may be phased out there in the next few years.
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In Japan they've had 8+MP 3X optical zoom cameras in phones for awhile and everywhere you go people are taking phone pics and video. Speculation is that P&S cameras may be phased out there in the next few years.
Eventually technology will take us to a point where even cameras like the DX3 and 1DSMKIII will be point and shoot in size.
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Eventually technology will take us to a point where even cameras like the DX3 and 1DSMKIII will be point and shoot in size.
Innovation rarely takes the vector we expect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzm6pvHPSGo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzm6pvHPSGo)
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On the other hand, have you ever seen a large, heavy L lens mounted on a rebel. The balance seems like it would be quite awkward with a 24-70 L or a 100-400 L.
I tried a 100-400l on a 300d/rebel, and as long as you just carry it by the lens it's not that awkward (not very convenient to point upwards though)... The whole lens+camera set has just the weight of a dead donkey (french proverbial).
Even for lenses, I prefer the lighter 55-250IS to the heavier L offerings, for the same weight (and price) reasons.
I'm often amused that this 55-250 gives me ca. 100-400mm equivalent, with same apertures - and better stabilisation from what I've heard, just 4 times lighter and 6 times cheaper, and the sharpness difference with the 100-400L I tried is not that significant on my old rebel. I don't wanna go full frame!
Yes, sometimes I wish I had the real-USM AF on my plastic toy...