Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: tashley on November 11, 2009, 05:58:43 pm
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In order to focus whatever (if any!) conversation this generates in one place I have posted this at LUF and any interested parties may want to tootle over and take a look....
Best
Tim
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/...tml#post1116764 (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-s2-forum/105773-s2-shoot-some-p45-comparisons.html#post1116764)
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In order to focus whatever (if any!) conversation this generates in one place I have posted this at LUF and any interested parties may want to tootle over and take a look....
Best
Tim
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/...tml#post1116764 (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-s2-forum/105773-s2-shoot-some-p45-comparisons.html#post1116764)
It could be LR or whatever, but I just looked at the 100% crops, it wasn't hard to tell the S2 from the P45, I'm a little surprised at that. To my eyes the Leica looks more digital.
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It could be LR or whatever, but I just looked at the 100% crops, it wasn't hard to tell the S2 from the P45, I'm a little surprised at that. To my eyes the Leica looks more digital.
Chris,
you need to read all the caveats and the information about processing before drawing any conclusions but I would say that I disagree!
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Chris,
you need to read all the caveats and the information about processing before drawing any conclusions but I would say that I disagree!
Well I'm not talking about the files in general, just what I have seen in your crops.
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I like the S2 better, it sort of seems like comparing the Nikon D3 to the Nikon D2x. But it seems that the images are not converted with similar settings they look so different.
Bill
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My 2 conclusions after taking a glance at the images:
1. Shooting with ISO 320 will be a leap of faith.
2. ISO 1250 looks like a worse version of a multi-stitch shot from my Nokia N93i. Maybe they should drop the price a bit and include in the package a Nikon/Canon for ISO > 640 applications? They could rename the 2nd body you get to "High ISO backup camera".
And that's what you get for quite a stack of money. Am I the only one disappointed here? As for the comparison to P45+ I guess it's irrelevant since both should be processed with dedicated software. But I don't know what I'd have to see at the samples to justify paying that much for upgrading from P45+ or a different Leaf/Phase/Hasselblad 22,33 or 39 mpix back. My thought is that IQ is good enough for 99% of applications with P45+, obvious thing is that now it's the features we should be after, not more mpix or sharpness. Untethered live preview, better LCDs (in 2 years LED displays for desktop monitors will be an absolute standard..), high ISO acceptable performance etc etc. Ok, S2 is probably better for high ISO than P45+. But it's worse than a $3k Canon camera! What a strange world we live in.
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Actually I thought they both looked terrible. Am I jaded?
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Actually I thought they both looked terrible. Am I jaded?
so did i....and i don't understand why anyone would shoot any of these scenes with either camera....skin looks atrocious with either...tone and "texture"...i don't think it is meant to be seen like that....i also don't think the light helped.....
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Actually I thought they both looked terrible.
me too
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Those samples are good for..what?
After all it makes me thinking (or hoping?) that both cameras can do a lot better.
I am scared.
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That Leica 70mm (in the shot of rain drops on the metal post) shows the same purple fringing (chromatic abberation or whatever they call it) on out-of-focus edges as the cheap Canon 50mm 1.4 lens does! And just about every other fast lens in the world does the same thing when near wide open...but how much does this thing cost again? I know the MTF charts looked yummy, but WTF? Shouldn't they have been able to eliminate this C.A./purple fringing for the price? These are supposed to be the best lenses ever, no?
Re:
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e (http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e)
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That Leica 70mm (in the shot of rain drops on the metal post) shows the same purple fringing (chromatic abberation or whatever they call it) on out-of-focus edges as the cheap Canon 50mm 1.4 lens does! And just about every other fast lens in the world does the same thing when near wide open...but how much does this thing cost again? I know the MTF charts looked yummy, but WTF? Shouldn't they have been able to eliminate this C.A./purple fringing for the price? These are supposed to be the best lenses ever, no?
Re:
http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e (http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/p775893693/h3b47e28e#h354bc47e)
Lisa,
Every high quality fast glass I've used in the past (Leica, Zeiss, Canon, Nikon) have some form of chromatic abberation.
My 85L (arguably the best fast glass ever made) has massive amount of it.
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Lisa,
Every high quality fast glass I've used in the past (Leica, Zeiss, Canon, Nikon) have some form of chromatic abberation.
My 85L (arguably the best fast glass ever made) has massive amount of it.
Josef, of course I agree with you. (I own the Canon 85 1.2) Just half joking about the fact that two months ago people were looking at the Leica charts and graphs and salivating. Now, as I suspected, these mad money lenses have not, in fact, changed the laws of physics ;-) Good luck telling the difference between these and a $200 Mamiya 80mm lens in print ;-)
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Josef, of course I agree with you. (I own the Canon 85 1.2) Just half joking about the fact that two months ago people were looking at the Leica charts and graphs and salivating. Now, as I suspected, these mad money lenses have not, in fact, changed the laws of physics ;-) Good luck telling the difference between these and a $200 Mamiya 80mm lens in print ;-)
I might take that bet on 2 page spread or larger on high quality stock. Might.
Steve Hendrix
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I might take that bet on 2 page spread or larger on high quality stock. Might.
Steve Hendrix
steve, i am permanently exposed to high quality prints of 30 inches and wider. it is often not easy to
distinguish D3x and HCD II 50 files at 30 inches width of print. i can do it rather consistently at 40 inches width
but not for smaller. mamyia and S2 will be very similar on two pages spread, better not bet more than a bottle of californian wine---)))
peter
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steve, i am permanently exposed to high quality prints of 30 inches and wider. it is often not easy to
distinguish D3x and HCD II 50 files at 30 inches width of print. i can do it rather consistently at 40 inches width
but not for smaller. mamyia and S2 will be very similar on two pages spread, better not bet more than a bottle of californian wine---)))
peter
I agree - and with a week having passed since I shot with the S2 (and more time to examine the files and to mull over the whole experience) I am more or less convinced that the trade of for all practical purposes will be:
(considering S2 against Phase AFD with p45+)
S2 wins on higher ISO, handling, vibration and maybe focus. Will quite probably win on the 'look' of the glass.
Phase wins on open system abilities
I think I mildly prefer the files from the S2 at all ISO but I'd need to shoot a lot more before I was certain and to be honest I think there's so little in it that it'd get lost in minor differences in focus and exposure accuracy.
I was thinking of switching (I hate the Mammy AFDIII body and am not initially convinced from my brief handling of it that the new version will be much of an improvement) but I do like to use my Cambo/Schneider setup and I'd drop a bundle on the switch - a bundle which I could spend on an upgrade to a P65+.
Whatever this is, it's NOT a no-brainer...
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Remember kids, the $300 Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 manual focus lens (used on a Canon with adapter) has higher resolving power than the 85mm f/1.2L II at the apertures I care about (f/2.8 to f/8). So... it's a pretty good lens.
I can't believe there's CA from the new Leica lens. The Leica 100mm APO macro on the other hand is virtually free of CA, unlike the Zeiss equivalent.
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steve, i am permanently exposed to high quality prints of 30 inches and wider. it is often not easy to
distinguish D3x and HCD II 50 files at 30 inches width of print. i can do it rather consistently at 40 inches width
but not for smaller. mamyia and S2 will be very similar on two pages spread, better not bet more than a bottle of californian wine---)))
peter
I'm betting more on the glass than the bodies. If the bet was noticeable differences between the Phase One "D" lenses and Leica lenses, I wouldn't bet. But if the lens in question was the analogue 80mm/f2.8 vs the Leica glass, yes I think I'd take that bet.
Steve Hendrix
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I'm betting more on the glass than the bodies. If the bet was noticeable differences between the Phase One "D" lenses and Leica lenses, I wouldn't bet. But if the lens in question was the analogue 80mm/f2.8 vs the Leica glass, yes I think I'd take that bet.
Steve Hendrix
point taken.
p
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Leica marketing plan:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/business...ortages.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/business/19shortages.html?hp)
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Somewhat interesting - I got the new Adorama Rental price list in the mail today
Phase backs aplenty
Hasselblad bodies (newest is H2)
Leica S2
But prize of place went to HD Video equipment
And very cheap prices all around
nb - This is not an endorsement of Adorama, I don't use them, although they are one of the bigger players.
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I can't believe there's CA from the new Leica lens. The Leica 100mm APO macro on the other hand is virtually free of CA, unlike the Zeiss equivalent.
the 100 CFi ?
anyway, i think that nothing will beat the rodenstock digaron 90 in that focal lenght... but every good lenses must be very close each other !