Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: michele on August 10, 2009, 08:45:25 am
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Hello,
i know it has been discussed many times, but i couldn't find any semples in the forum... I'm thinking about getting a Mamiya RZ ProII D for my P45+, i have an AFDIII with new PhaseOne digital lenses. I can have the 50mm, 110mm and the 180mm for the RZ from a friend of mine, but i have to buy the ProIID with the plate for my back, for now I can't test the 67 lenses, can somebody post some 100% semples? Comparisions beteween the 110mm and the 80mmD and 120mmD are perfect...!!! BTW everything you have will be appreciate!!
Many thanks
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I have RZ 50,110,180mm. I've tested my 22mp digital backs.
110,180 is very good, but not excellent than other brand prime lens.
(HC150, sinaron digital 105, even non digital macro sinaron 180)
50 is not good. detail, sharpness, CA... is bad.
center sharpness is good. but that's all.
JK
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I talked to the Mamiya service in Germany on the phone about this.
Basically what they said is, the RZ lenses are good enough, but not as good, as the 645 D lenses...
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I talked to the Mamiya service in Germany on the phone about this.
Basically what they said is, the RZ lenses are good enough, but not as good, as the 645 D lenses...
This sounds like they're basing their answer on how much native resolution the lenses have, which is a response I would expect from the manufacturer. I don't know that it addresses whether the RZ lenses are "as good" as the 645 D lenses. I don't know any of our customers who don't love what the RZ lenses do with digital, regardless of the native resolution. The feedback I've gotten has always been that they're plenty sharp enough and they draw beautifully.
Those RZ lovers. You know who you are.
Steve Hendrix
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Which 50 did you test Chiek?
The previous 50 W (no floating element) is not so great on digital (very nice on b/w film). The newer ULD lens is more than good enough, nearly as sharp as the 65 LA (with floating element).
I'd test any used RZ lens for digital use - the shutter can cause sync problems if it has gotten a little sticky. A good cleaning usually fixes it.
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I think the RZ lenses are delicious. Aptus 54s.
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Contrast and sharpness on my RZ lens Blow away any 645 AF lens I have use. Cannot speak of D lens on the 645.
120 macro on 645 is very nice.
My favorites are the 65mm 110 and the 145 macro. When in focus NO after sharpening is EVER needed, actually I have to soften models skin as they are too sharp sometimes!!
Snook
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Those RZ lovers. You know who you are.
Steve Hendrix
Steve, I know you're right. I loved my RZ sooo much. And I will get me another one soon
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Thank you all for the answers... Actually i hoped to see some images... I used to have a RZ and it was beautiful, I need a back-up for my 645, but i don't like the idea of spending 1000 euro for the same camera i have now... The lenses i can get for the RZ can cover and also expand my demand of focal lenght... I can use a central shutter and can say stop to the batteries... one thing that i hate of the 645 is the battery consumption, 6 or 12 AA batteries per day, it's something that stress me!
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Hi Michele,
If your Mamiya 645 is using 6 or 12 batteries per day your camera has a fault with it. I have a Mamiya 645AFDII camera and with Eveready Lithium batteries get up to 6 months of use.
Also I have been using my Mamiya RZ for 25 years using the 37mm fisheye, 50mm (old model), 65mm, 75mm short barrel, 90mm, 110mm, 127mm, 140mm macro,180mm short barrel, 360mm lenses and 1.4x converter with fantastic results with my Leaf Aptus 75.
Cheers
Simon
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Hi Michele,
If your Mamiya 645 is using 6 or 12 batteries per day your camera has a fault with it. I have a Mamiya 645AFDII camera and with Eveready Lithium batteries get up to 6 months of use.
Also I have been using my Mamiya RZ for 25 years using the 37mm fisheye, 50mm (old model), 65mm, 75mm short barrel, 90mm, 110mm, 127mm, 140mm macro,180mm short barrel, 360mm lenses and 1.4x converter with fantastic results with my Leaf Aptus 75.
Cheers
Simon
6 months??? It's a dream... Actually i always heard that the mamiya needs for a long day shooting around 6 fresh batteries... So i thought that my camera was ok... But 6 months, is incredible! I use eneloop rechargeble batteries... But now I'm going to try out the eveready lithium!
Many thanks Simon!!!
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Thank you all for the answers... Actually i hoped to see some images... I used to have a RZ and it was beautiful, I need a back-up for my 645, but i don't like the idea of spending 1000 euro for the same camera i have now... The lenses i can get for the RZ can cover and also expand my demand of focal lenght... I can use a central shutter and can say stop to the batteries... one thing that i hate of the 645 is the battery consumption, 6 or 12 AA batteries per day, it's something that stress me!
Hi Michelle
I have samples of both with my p40+ back (so the resolution should be fairly similar but the crop factor 1.3 rather than 1.1 on the p45+) is on RZ proIID and Phase one 645, if you give me till the weekend I'll get them on for you.
I have to say I don't think there is much to choose between the 110mm RZ and 80mm 645 D lens.............BUT I have to say any files I've done digitally with an RZ just have a nicer feel to them. Not something that can be explained by technicalities probably (I say probably because there is always someone round here with an answer!)
G
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Hi,
110mm and 180mm and 140mm are my favorite lenses for what I do.
But I actually like them all.
The main thing with the RZ is what Steve already said, they render an amazing image, even when looking at our studio monitor (which is just a normal 40" LCD TV for seeing the images coming in) the quality is seen.
I also love the quality of the 645 but the images just look more flat, and lacking some contrast/realness.
Some people will not see it but for me it's obvious.
On batteries.
I'm using 2600Mah and the new green rechargables and they last app one day of intense use.
When I'm shooting less or on location they will last app 2 days. But than it's done.
When on holiday I'm using normal batteries and they last app a week depending on the climat.
6 months is amazing and I wonder how many frames that is.
On a normal trip I shoot app 2000 frames before the batteries die, seeing that in the manual they state a lot less I already found myself lucky
With rechargables I average arround 600-700 frames.
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Thanks BigWooha and Frank!
Every help is welcome!!
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Hello,
i know it has been discussed many times, but i couldn't find any semples in the forum... I'm thinking about getting a Mamiya RZ ProII D for my P45+, i have an AFDIII with new PhaseOne digital lenses. I can have the 50mm, 110mm and the 180mm for the RZ from a friend of mine, but i have to buy the ProIID with the plate for my back, for now I can't test the 67 lenses, can somebody post some 100% semples? Comparisions beteween the 110mm and the 80mmD and 120mmD are perfect...!!! BTW everything you have will be appreciate!!
Many thanks
Lens testing and comparison is such a slippery slope... Even if you get to a spot where you do have a good, solid test comparison of two lenses, then you get into the variations between two individual lenses of the same model.
That said, I'm going to throw this out there- based on what I've done with Mamiya RZ, 645, Hasselblad old and new lenses, I'd strongly caution you against expecting the same quality from the RZ lenses and what you're getting from the PhaseOne lenses. I'm fairly certain, but can't demonstrate it, that they will have a very different look. I've worked with a few photographers who love the RZ and want to use it for their digital backs, and the camera is tough to work with- the tolerances are just too, well, sloppy for me, personally, in terms of focus and even flash-sync. The lenses, again, for me, in my experience, just don't perform compared to the latest generations of medium format glass...
OK, now the is a CAUTION, it's based on my experience working with several DBs and camera systems as a digital tech... it's an OPINION. I know full well that a whole lot of people LOVE the RZ, and that's great, it's a wonderful camera if it suits your taste. ...and in spite of this disclaimer, I'm gonna duck and run away now...
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Lens testing and comparison is such a slippery slope... Even if you get to a spot where you do have a good, solid test comparison of two lenses, then you get into the variations between two individual lenses of the same model.
That said, I'm going to throw this out there- based on what I've done with Mamiya RZ, 645, Hasselblad old and new lenses, I'd strongly caution you against expecting the same quality from the RZ lenses and what you're getting from the PhaseOne lenses. I'm fairly certain, but can't demonstrate it, that they will have a very different look. I've worked with a few photographers who love the RZ and want to use it for their digital backs, and the camera is tough to work with- the tolerances are just too, well, sloppy for me, personally, in terms of focus and even flash-sync. The lenses, again, for me, in my experience, just don't perform compared to the latest generations of medium format glass...
OK, now the is a CAUTION, it's based on my experience working with several DBs and camera systems as a digital tech... it's an OPINION. I know full well that a whole lot of people LOVE the RZ, and that's great, it's a wonderful camera if it suits your taste. ...and in spite of this disclaimer, I'm gonna duck and run away now...
Trying to understand your post - which RZ model and which lenses have you actually used?
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You mean like a synch that actually works. Like a tethering to a computer that connects 100% of times and not only than when it wants to.
Like a camera that does not send you error massages. Like the rotating back etc. I know it is hard to get used to at first but if you add superior glass for $200 a lens it kind of make sense.
Andre
H2, AFI7, D3x
and.....Rz
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Trying to understand your post - which RZ model and which lenses have you actually used?
oh crap... this was about 3-5 years ago, but I'm pretty sure they were all the ProII body- I seem to remember a problem even getting the Pro to work at all- a various assortment of lenses, based around the normal (90mm 3.5 was it)? I had one client who wasn't particularly married to them and ended up with the 645AFD after HUGE connection problems with Leaf, she used longer lenses, the 150 if memory serves, and was more happy with her results on a Leaf Aptus.
and Andre? exactly...
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My experience with my RZ bodies (Pro and ProII) with an Aptus 54S, shooting into LC11.x, has been great. Few problems not remedied with a CLA of a lens or two. I think the tolerances are better than the V system, although the 503cw was pretty tight.
As to the lenses, they are all good. I do like the 80 2.8 for the M645 system, but the 110 on the RZ is very, very nice.
Disclaimer: I don't shoot too many high volume 5k shots a day shoots with the RZ. When I did, I had a few problems, but nothing more than the usual MFDB nonsense. A ds3 is better suited for that anyway. I know as a tech you see all sorts of nonsense all day long, especially on the software side. LC10 was awful. I was scarred for life by it.
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LC10 was awful. I was scarred for life by it.
AAAAAomgomg, now I'm gonna have to go back to therapy again... the "treatment" had banished it from my mind...
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My experience with my RZ bodies (Pro and ProII) with an Aptus 54S, shooting into LC11.x, has been great. Few problems not remedied with a CLA of a lens or two. I think the tolerances are better than the V system, although the 503cw was pretty tight.
As to the lenses, they are all good. I do like the 80 2.8 for the M645 system, but the 110 on the RZ is very, very nice.
Disclaimer: I don't shoot too many high volume 5k shots a day shoots with the RZ. When I did, I had a few problems, but nothing more than the usual MFDB nonsense. A ds3 is better suited for that anyway. I know as a tech you see all sorts of nonsense all day long, especially on the software side. LC10 was awful. I was scarred for life by it.
FINALLY found the quote: "...'I think there is a good chance that Capture One will be the new software platform for Leaf users" -Hasselblad's CEO Christian Poulsen
story here. (http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=865565)
...got into an interesting discussion with a Leaf "person" about the long, tortured path of Leaf Capture, found out it wasn't just me.
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FINALLY found the quote: "...'I think there is a good chance that Capture One will be the new software platform for Leaf users" -Hasselblad's CEO Christian Poulsen
story here. (http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=865565)
...got into an interesting discussion with a Leaf "person" about the long, tortured path of Leaf Capture, found out it wasn't just me.
That would make me really, really happy. LC11 is stable, and I like the moire tool better than C1, but C1 is just miles ahead of LC11.
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That would make me really, really happy. LC11 is stable, and I like the moire tool better than C1, but C1 is just miles ahead of LC11.
yeah, that conversation I had was about how C1 is essentially the same as 5 or more years ago, and just a great, solid process that most other systems have evolved to resemble... I think (hope) it is a great step forward for Leaf users. Sorry, kind of getting off-topic.
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um...back to the topic...
anyone used and recommend or not for the APO lens? Particularly the 4.5/210mm?
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um...back to the topic...
anyone used and recommend or not for the APO lens? Particularly the 4.5/210mm?
The 210 is really good.
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I think there is a lot of mystere around the RZ and digital backs...
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I think there is a lot of mystere around the RZ and digital backs...
Hi Michele,
Take it from me, there is no mystery around the Mamiya RZ with a Leaf Aptus 75.
In my opinion it is a fantastic system. It would be a cold day in hell if I ever gave up my system.
All the best,
Simon
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agreed, no mystery
mine always worked, never a problem
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agreed, no mystery
mine always worked, never a problem
My RZ Pro II has always worked with several different Phase One backs, from a H25 - P45+. The only thing you really have to do is make sure you have the cabling correct on the RZ or RZ Pro II. The Pro IID (Digital) is very simple since it requires no cables to connect to the camera.
Chris Lawery ()
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Sales Manager, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
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Quick question to confirm my understanding for the RZ non D...is that I have to get the body modified to accept the Mamiya or Phase back plate, and once modified, the camera cannot be used to shoot film anymore. But with the ProIID, you can shoot film or digital as you wish.
And with any of the RZ on a Phase back, the revolving back does not work. Will it work on the RB?
Is my understanding correct?
My RZ Pro II has always worked with several different Phase One backs, from a H25 - P45+. The only thing you really have to do is make sure you have the cabling correct on the RZ or RZ Pro II. The Pro IID (Digital) is very simple since it requires no cables to connect to the camera.
Chris Lawery ()
__________________
Sales Manager, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870 | Cell: 404.234.5195
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up (http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/newsletters/)
RSS Feed: Subscribe (http://www.captureintegration.com/2008/08/11/rss-feeds/)[/font]
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Quick question to confirm my understanding for the RZ non D...is that I have to get the body modified to accept the Mamiya or Phase back plate, and once modified, the camera cannot be used to shoot film anymore. But with the ProIID, you can shoot film or digital as you wish.
And with any of the RZ on a Phase back, the revolving back does not work. Will it work on the RB?
Is my understanding correct?
I don't know about Phase backs, but my Leaf Aptus75 works just fine with the ProII (non-D) I have, using a Leaf adapter plate.
It's basically like using a large format camera with analog shutters.
As for lenses, I have the 50/110/150 , and the sharpness is superb - actually slighly better than what I get with most digital lenses for LF .
The only issue is color fringing when shooting wide open, but it disappears a couple stops down.
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Quick question to confirm my understanding for the RZ non D...is that I have to get the body modified to accept the Mamiya or Phase back plate, and once modified, the camera cannot be used to shoot film anymore. But with the ProIID, you can shoot film or digital as you wish.
And with any of the RZ on a Phase back, the revolving back does not work. Will it work on the RB?
Is my understanding correct?
Well, if you use an RZII, you don't want to use the Mamiya electronic plate. Use the Leaf plates for Mamiya AFD mount, Hassy V mount, Leaf AFi mount, or Hassy H mount backs, along with a cable, or use the Phase One Hassy V plate that works with Hassy V mount backs on the RZII, which has 2 cables, I think. No need for modifications.
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Well, if you use an RZII, you don't want to use the Mamiya electronic plate. Use the Leaf plates for Mamiya AFD mount, Hassy V mount, Leaf AFi mount, or Hassy H mount backs, along with a cable, or use the Phase One Hassy V plate that works with Hassy V mount backs on the RZII, which has 2 cables, I think. No need for modifications.
Yeah, if I ever get another RZ, I will get the PROII-nonD and the Leaf adapter plate for my Aptus 22.
I am content with the 645 system at the moment.
-PL
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Thanks, I am just about to buy a RZ...probably RZ ProII, non D. Will the backs still rotate?
Well, if you use an RZII, you don't want to use the Mamiya electronic plate. Use the Leaf plates for Mamiya AFD mount, Hassy V mount, Leaf AFi mount, or Hassy H mount backs, along with a cable, or use the Phase One Hassy V plate that works with Hassy V mount backs on the RZII, which has 2 cables, I think. No need for modifications.
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Thanks, I am just about to buy a RZ...probably RZ ProII, non D. Will the backs still rotate?
I use the Leaf adapter with the Pro II (non-D).
It was allegedly for the 17, but it looks like it's got a big enough opening to work for the 22 (at least). It DOES rotate, but I read somewhere that some of the Phase adapters do NOT rotate.
I use it with my Phase H10, so, due to the contour of the back, it required some dremeling to make the H10 fit on the adapter.
The digital back is easily interchangeable with the film backs.
The biggest hassle is coordinating all the trigger signals and actions. I have a wake-up cable, then I have to shoot within 4 seconds. I got the power winder to recock the shutter for me to remove that step in the process. If I want to shoot MLU, I have to click one cable to move the mirror, click the wake-up cable, then click the shutter release.
Greg
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The biggest hassle is coordinating all the trigger signals and actions. I have a wake-up cable, then I have to shoot within 4 seconds. I got the power winder to recock the shutter for me to remove that step in the process. If I want to shoot MLU, I have to click one cable to move the mirror, click the wake-up cable, then click the shutter release.
Greg
This was my major gripe with my Phase P30+: The wakeup cable for the RZ. I now have an Aptus 54s in H mount with the H to RZ plate. Good times.
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bump
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@TMARK
Is that with a RZ pro II or a pro IID?
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@TMARK
Is that with a RZ pro II or a pro IID?
Pro, ProII. I have my father's Pro body and two ProIIs. I passed on the IID because the interface is the same in the AFd1, which I never liked. The less electronics the better.
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May I ask another question just to clarify:
Did I understand it correctly that I can use my P30 (Mamiya mount) with RZ (non-D) camera using a Leaf adaptor, like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/Leaf-Digital-Back-Adapter-for-the-Mamiya-RZII-Camera_W0QQitemZ270444116038QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef7b9b846&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14)one? (provided I have a sync cord)
Appreciate clear answer )))
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yes, it works.
it might be better to get a Mamiya AFD > RZ non D adapter from phase one for your phase one back.
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yes, it works.
it might be better to get a Mamiya AFD > RZ non D adapter from phase one for your phase one back.
I would be more than happy to buy one, but such adapter exists only for the Hass mount, not Mamiya mount. It's exactly the reason I'm looking to a Leaf adaptor.
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If you can get that adapter for a low price, it would be worth trying it anyway. Go for it.
Buying it new is around $800-$1,000. For example, this DL28 adapter for the RZII, designed to work with 33x44mm Aptus 65/Aptus 6 backs, which is the same size as the P30 sensor: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/6050...dapter_Kit.html (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/605094-REG/Mamiya_903_545_DL28_Back_Adapter_Kit.html)
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Wow, good price on that adapter.
I'm not sure it'll work stock, though. If the P30 back has the same contouring as my H10 back, you'll have to do some Dremeling to remove some material on the adapter.. It's not too bad of a job, but still worth noting.