Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: henrikfoto on April 21, 2009, 06:18:21 pm
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I miss the performance of my 120 Apo macro planar and wonder if there is any way this lens can be used with Hasselblad, Canon etc?
Heenrik
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Wouldn't a Leica 100mm APO-Macro-Elmarit-R f/2.8 be as good or better (and easy to adapt to Canon and possibly other mounts)? By all accounts a stunning lens, one stop faster and maybe more compact than the Contax too.
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I miss the performance of my 120 Apo macro planar and wonder if there is any way this lens can be used with Hasselblad, Canon etc?
Heenrik
There is a Hassy version of this lens available that you can use on your Hasselblad or with an adaptor on the Canon, but as far as I know there's nothing that can be done with the Contax 120.
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There is a Hassy version of this lens available that you can use on your Hasselblad or with an adaptor on the Canon, but as far as I know there's nothing that can be done with the Contax 120.
Yes, Hasselblad does have a Macro-planar, but this lens is not even close to the contax
Henrik
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Wouldn't a Leica 100mm APO-Macro-Elmarit-R f/2.8 be as good or better (and easy to adapt to Canon and possibly other mounts)? By all accounts a stunning lens, one stop faster and maybe more compact than the Contax too.
Thanks! I don´t know a lot about Leica, but from the curves that seems like a very nice lens!
Henrik
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Yes, Hasselblad does have a Macro-planar, but this lens is not even close to the contax
Henrik
I don't have the lens but last October Zeiss had it on their stand at the show here in New York and when I asked them about it, I was told that its basically the same lens. I don't know anything more about it but assumed that they knew what they were talking about.
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I don't have the lens but last October Zeiss had it on their stand at the show here in New York and when I asked them about it, I was told that its basically the same lens. I don't know anything more about it but assumed that they knew what they were talking about.
It´s not the same lens. Look at the MTF-curves at zeiss, and you will see they are very different.
Henrik
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First, let me say that I am a long time Contax 645 user and I think it is a wonderful system. However, the 120 Makro is known to suffer from straylight issues. When we first discovered this, we thought we had a bad copy of the lens. We then purchased three more copies from various sources, all brand new. All of them suffered from some contrast loss under various situations, especially when backlit or strongly sidelit. We then confirmed this with other owners of this lens, and found out that the Hasselblad 120CFE actually outperforms the Contax 120 at macro distances, but nobody discusses this openly. Zeiss went through a lot of trouble to eliminate straylight issues with the latest versions of the Hasselblad lenses. As a result, their latest CFE lens barrels/housings succeeded, but unfortunately these design aspects were not transferred to the Contax 645 lenses (except for the zoom, where they started to address these issues again....see the datasheet here: http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/Embed..._45-90mm_e.pdf) (http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Vario-Sonnar4.5_45-90mm_e/$File/Vario-Sonnar4.5_45-90mm_e.pdf)). So, in actual shooting, you will see higher realized contrast from the Hasselblad 120CFE.
I know comments like these stir up emotions, as we all have our favorite lenses. So, rather than debate this issue, I only suggest that you instead simply acquire these lenses and test them for yourself.
And, to really put the Contax 120 (or the Leica 100, or any other macro lens for that matter) in its place, you should also look at the Contax F4/100mm S-Planar lens. Not only does this lens have the highest MTF for any macro lens (see 1:4 scale at F8), many people have confirmed it to be true in practice. The good news is that the image circle is large enough to cover a 37x49 MFDB, and the flange focal distance of 91mm is long enough to be used on any medium format camera. Check it out here: http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/Embed...ar4_100mm_e.pdf (http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/S-Planar_4_100_e/$File/S-Planar4_100mm_e.pdf)
When we do not need to use the tilt or shift that we can get from the 120CFE macro lens, this 100mm S-Planar is our lens of choice. So, this may be a lens worth converting.
David
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It´s not the same lens. Look at the MTF-curves at zeiss, and you will see they are very different.
Henrik
The newer silver barrel lens from Carl Zeiss for Hasselblad is perhaps the same except may be improved coating. But the lens design for Contax 645 mount is totally different, and rather than going to 1:4, the Contax goes to 1:1, and in my point of view of higher contrast and warmer color. I do not know there is any adapter to put Contax lens on Hasselbad, it was not leaf shutter lens, nor can it be use on EOS although there is service available to put Contax N lenses on EOS and retain its full automation, in this case, the N series makro lens is also a star performer, as the older MM/ME mount makro lens from Zeiss.
The new Zeiss makro lens for ZF/ZS ie. 50/2 and 100/2 are also excellent and may be eventually will be introduced with ZE mount. And of course, the Leica Apo-Makro-Elmarit R 100/2.8 is also a superb lens, I live it when I still shoot R system, but now with Canon, the makro lens from Canon is pretty well that I will not bother using adapter for other lens, not that Canon is superior on absolute optical performance, but as a total package, I do not see such must.
Contax 645 in all counts, a great system, and certainly the Apo-Makro-Planar is among the most used and most praised lens in the line, I use it very often since day 1 until now, as coming from 205FCC, and some 500 series Hasselblad, I do not think the makro lens for Hasselblad for those days as good as Contax, after all, it is a newer design and suppose not worse.
Regards, K
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... a newer design and suppose not worse.
Newer is not necessarily better. For example, the Hasselblad 905SWC versus the older Hasselblad 903SWC. Both are truly good, but the newer 905 is not better.
As for the macro lenses, and in the terms already used above to describe it ... the Contax 645 120 macro is not even close to the 100 S-Planar. So, in the spirit of the original poster who is looking for an incredible macro lens, I think the 100SP is THE lens to convert.
David
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there is service available to put Contax N lenses on EOS and retain its full automation
Ah--good point, Khun.
If true, perhaps Henrik could use the Contax NAM-1 adapter on the 120 macro to turn it into a Contax N lens, but have the adapter modified to work on Canon EOS.
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Currently there are three Leica 100 mm F 2.8 macro lenses offered on eBay, including my own, the provenance is:
Stated briefly, this copy of the Leica Macro 100m f2.8 lens is indistinguishable from new. I took as good images as can be shown on eBay to illustrate visually the new appearance; answering your question directly there is no worn paint, no scratches, nor notable signs of use. To provide a credible explanation of this lens' condition, perhaps this will help. I am a giclée maker, I reproduce fine art. When I began, I was dissatisfied with the CANON 100 mm macro lens in terms of image quality. I purchased the Leica lens, which improved image quality and MTF. However, I was still dissatisfied with the color reproducibility. This problem was not the lens' fault, it was the CANON 1Ds Mark II image sensor. In full disclosure, I would have to add that my lighting was second rate. I changed everything. I bought all new equipment from a Swiss company - this is what the museums use. Sinarcam2 and SINAR 54 H - a 16 shot digital back. For lights I bought two Grafit 4's, this is the equipment that I have been using very successfully. It is the right equipment for what I am doing. From the day that I bought the SINAR/Broncolor equipment until today (3 years), the LEICA macro has been in a glass fronted cabinet, in the Leica manufacturer's box, inside the leather case. All these items are shown in the photo that accompany the auction. If you have any further questions, please let me know, and good luck winning this little beauty.
Jerry Reed http://www.newlightimages.com/ (http://www.newlightimages.com/)
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David, good to see your posts again!
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David,
I was unable to get to the Zeiss site for the Contax 645 45-90mm zoom PDF. I have this lens. Can you post it here if you have that PDF on hand? Although it is a tad heavy to lug around, I have found that this lens is as sharp or sharper then its prime version. I also use the Hasselblad 60-120mm with a MAM-1 adapter for that EXTRA reach. That lens is also sharp and crisp.
Evan
First, let me say that I am a long time Contax 645 user and I think it is a wonderful system. However, the 120 Makro is known to suffer from straylight issues. When we first discovered this, we thought we had a bad copy of the lens. We then purchased three more copies from various sources, all brand new. All of them suffered from some contrast loss under various situations, especially when backlit or strongly sidelit. We then confirmed this with other owners of this lens, and found out that the Hasselblad 120CFE actually outperforms the Contax 120 at macro distances, but nobody discusses this openly. Zeiss went through a lot of trouble to eliminate straylight issues with the latest versions of the Hasselblad lenses. As a result, their latest CFE lens barrels/housings succeeded, but unfortunately these design aspects were not transferred to the Contax 645 lenses (except for the zoom, where they started to address these issues again....see the datasheet here: http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/Embed..._45-90mm_e.pdf) (http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Vario-Sonnar4.5_45-90mm_e/$File/Vario-Sonnar4.5_45-90mm_e.pdf)). So, in actual shooting, you will see higher realized contrast from the Hasselblad 120CFE.
I know comments like these stir up emotions, as we all have our favorite lenses. So, rather than debate this issue, I only suggest that you instead simply acquire these lenses and test them for yourself.
And, to really put the Contax 120 (or the Leica 100, or any other macro lens for that matter) in its place, you should also look at the Contax F4/100mm S-Planar lens. Not only does this lens have the highest MTF for any macro lens (see 1:4 scale at F8), many people have confirmed it to be true in practice. The good news is that the image circle is large enough to cover a 37x49 MFDB, and the flange focal distance of 91mm is long enough to be used on any medium format camera. Check it out here: http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/Embed...ar4_100mm_e.pdf (http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/S-Planar_4_100_e/$File/S-Planar4_100mm_e.pdf)
When we do not need to use the tilt or shift that we can get from the 120CFE macro lens, this 100mm S-Planar is our lens of choice. So, this may be a lens worth converting.
David
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http://www.zeiss.com (http://www.zeiss.com) >>Products/Camera and Cine lenses>>Camera Lenses>>Service&Support (near top of page)>>Download Center>>Historical Data Sheets
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David,
I was unable to get to the Zeiss site for the Contax 645 45-90mm zoom PDF. I have this lens. Can you post it here if you have that PDF on hand? Although it is a tad heavy to lug around, I have found that this lens is as sharp or sharper then its prime version. I also use the Hasselblad 60-120mm with a MAM-1 adapter for that EXTRA reach. That lens is also sharp and crisp.
Evan
Sorry, something got garbled when I pasted the link to it. This one should work:
http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/Embed...5_45-90mm_e.pdf (http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Vario-Sonnar4.5_45-90mm_e/$File/Vario-Sonnar4.5_45-90mm_e.pdf)
David
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Thank you David and John. I was able to download the MTF PDF and in addition, I also downloaded the other PDF for the rest of the Contax 645 lineup.
Evan
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if anyone has a contax 645 zoom for sale, I'm looking for one in good condition. please Private Message me. thanks.
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if anyone has a contax 645 zoom for sale, I'm looking for one in good condition. please Private Message me. thanks.
Hi Nairkin.
I think there is two of them on Ebay right now, reasonbly priced too I believe.
Anders
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Hi Nairkin.
I think there is two of them on Ebay right now, reasonbly priced too I believe.
Those zooms on eBay look a little pricey to me, $2500-2900 for used zoom is not realistic anymore - I saw a totally brand new boxed one go for $2500 earlier this week on Ebay - a good/fair price indication.
Actually I think Contax lenses/gear are now beginning their decline in prices - after they initially went out of production, prices spiked and stayed high for a year or two, but now I see lenses easing down a good deal on actual realized prices - the 140 and 210 are much below their peak, and the 45 is affordable again, the 55mm - harder to find is also better, when you can spot one, and the zoom is down in the 2000-2500 range for very good condition, and even in the 1800 range for a decent but well used one. 120mm Macro too has dropped from crazy peak prices.
Of course this doesn't stop some 'ambitious' sellers from trying on silly high prices, but they nearly always fail. I see one person asking $450 for a lens hood... nuts.
Inevitably Contax gear will come down, despite having many years of life in it, it has to fade in its desirability as newer digital options from Mamiya, 'Blad etc come through.
I love mine, and use it often, but am thinking of a platform switch soon, to something with a development life, digital era lenses, and a future... plus its a good idea to sell while I can still get a decent price.
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Majority of the prices has been falling. However, the 35mm, 55mm, 120mm,300mm, and the 45-90mm zoom has held their prices pretty well.
The 35mm and the 120mm are common, while the 55mm, 45-90mm zoom, and 300mm are not as common as these were available almost toward the end of the production. Yes the rarer lens hood are very expensive, again due to short supply and high demand...
I would love to buy a 55mm mainly for the AF ability. Because I refuse to pay the high prices, I am using my Hasselblad 50mmF2.8F with a MAM-1 adapter in Stop Down Mode.
Evan
Those zooms on eBay look a little pricey to me, $2500-2900 for used zoom is not realistic anymore - I saw a totally brand new boxed one go for $2500 earlier this week on Ebay - a good/fair price indication.
Actually I think Contax lenses/gear are now beginning their decline in prices - after they initially went out of production, prices spiked and stayed high for a year or two, but now I see lenses easing down a good deal on actual realized prices - the 140 and 210 are much below their peak, and the 45 is affordable again, the 55mm - harder to find is also better, when you can spot one, and the zoom is down in the 2000-2500 range for very good condition, and even in the 1800 range for a decent but used one. 120mm Macro too has dropped from crazy peak prices.
Of course this doesn't stop some 'ambitious' sellers from trying on silly high prices, but they nearly always fail. I see one person asking $450 for a lens hood... nuts.
Inevitably Contax gear will come down, despite having many years of life in it, it has to fade in its desirability as newer digital options from Mamiya, 'Blad etc come through.
I love mine, and use it often, but am thinking of a platform switch soon, to something with a development life, digital era lenses, and a future... plus its a good idea to sell while I can still get a decent price.
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the later/rarer lenses have held up better, but they too are declining. A well used but optically ok zoom failed to reach its reserve at $1050 bidding last week. that was unlucky, but still, a sign of the times.
the 120 is down to around $1000 from being up in the $1600+ area.
and certainly the basic lenses - 80/140/45 are 30-40% below what they were a year or two ago. I see 140's for $600 in some places.
agreed prices are declining now, and over ambitious sellers dreaming of 2007 prices are wasting their time, especially in this recession.
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... agreed prices are declining now, and over ambitious sellers dreaming of 2007 prices are wasting their time, especially in this recession.
Yes, the same is happening with the MFDB prices. The later model 22MP backs are down to the $5000 range. These are probably the most difficult backs to sell right now, as buyers will have even less to look forward to when it comes time for them to sell. In this case, I think the DSLR market is making some inroads, since the resale value there seems to remain relatively higher to the original purchase cost. Also, I have seen some 39MP backs go for around $10K - $11K. It's a buyer's market in just about anything these days.