Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: keith_cooper on July 14, 2008, 03:44:00 pm
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Hi, When I was sent a 4880 for a review by Epson UK, they also sent a box of Epson Traditional Photo Paper.
I've just written up some thoughts on using it, but had a couple of questions I've not had clear answers on.
Is this exactly the same as the Epson Exhibition Fiber as available in the US?
Did I get a poor batch? in that the black plastic bag in the box contained rather a lot of surface coating flecks in it.
The stuff I wrote is at:
Epson Traditional Photo Paper review (http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/paper/epson_TPP_EFP.html)
With the limited amount for testing (and the price of more) I was wondering if anyone who's used it much, has suggestions for its use (other than clean it well and handle with care ;-) )
bye for now
Keith Cooper
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Is this exactly the same as the Epson Exhibition Fiber as available in the US?
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That's what I was told but I could never lay my hands on a box of US EEF paper and compare it directly to Traditional Photo paper.
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I have done 2 of my portfolios with this paper now and have been through about 6 boxes. So I have had a chance to find some good things, and a few nasty things about it.
When I first received a sample A3+ box from Epson to test I also ordered a box of the USA Exhibition Fibre paper. The box from the USA is larger because of areas added to save damaging. The USA box says "made in UK". The Traditional box says "product of Switzerland" . However the black bag is the same and the USA box had a "Traditional" data sheet in it.
The papers look as close to exactly the same as possible. They print the same. So what really is the score?
I had a custom profile made right off so I have no idea if Epson's canned profiles work.
Now for the good points of this paper.
The tonal detail is amazing compared to other papers I tested. There is great full tonal detail right to a full deep black and I find I can hold a single 1 in the highlight areas. If you want pure paper you need "0"s . At least with my profile.
The surface is nice, but for portfolio use I end up doing 5 coats of Printshield so my finish is different from the raw print. It looks great and so far is holding up nicely.
Now for the bad points.
This paper is SO EASY TO SCRATCH. In my case the 5 coats of Printshield are to protect scratching and handling. Tissue paper or something between prints is required when stacking or storing.
There are flakes in the pack and you must dust sheets carefully. I blow mine off with an airbrush before printing.
There are sometimes small brown spots or surface marks. I lost at least 4 of the 25 sheets of every pack to this , but I then used them for testing. Both USA and Traditional versions have the same flaw marks.
The paper has a very noticeable dry down colour shift. For ultra critical prints such as gradated grey backgrounds you must leave them at least 24 hours before judging the tests.
If you are going to spray prints that are heavy in colour, in my case black on black, you must let your prints breath at least 72 hours or you will get a very nasty surprise about 2 hours after spraying. You really do not want to realise this as you are packing the prints for Fedex to CA magazine as I did. Thank god for entry extensions.
Even with all the bad points of this paper I find that the tonal quality of the prints far outweighs the issues. You just have to be careful like you used to be in the old school darkroom. If t was too easy everybody could make beautiful prints.
I hope that this helps others avoid the potholes and enjoy the prints.
Brent Daniels
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I have done 2 of my portfolios with this paper now and have been through about 6 boxes. So I have had a chance to find some good things, and a few nasty things about it.
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208307\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for info, so it looks like EEF and Traditional Photo paper are identical.
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I had a custom profile made right off so I have no idea if Epson's canned profiles work.
You should try it and let us know how it works compared to the custom profile.
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If you like the Epson Exhibition Fine Art paper, try the Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta. I like the Hahnemuhle product better. I've been through a few boxes and several rolls and haven't run into any quality control issues, it's a little less expensive than the Espon product, its surface doesn't scratch or fingerprint as easily as the Epson product, and it has a luxurious feel. It images exceptionally well, very comparable to the Epson product.
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The Epson Ex. Fiber paper in England and in the US is the exact same paper, 100% sure. It was probably just a bad batch with some dust from cutting, happens once in a while with that companies paper.
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If you like the Epson Exhibition Fine Art paper, try the Hahnemuhle FineArt Baryta. I like the Hahnemuhle product better. I've been through a few boxes and several rolls and haven't run into any quality control issues, it's a little less expensive than the Espon product, its surface doesn't scratch or fingerprint as easily as the Epson product, and it has a luxurious feel. It images exceptionally well, very comparable to the Epson product.
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I was using the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl before. I was having to run the ink level at -15% to stop over inking and then the blacks still blocked up, regardless of custom profiling. I have some sample sheets of the FineArt Baryta and ran the profile image. I was having the same over inking issue so I cut my losses then & there.
For what I was printing, detailed black texture on a black background the Epson paper was the only one that produced a amazing amount of detail and smooth tonality in the below 75% black tones. Sometimes for visual beauty you have to put up with some bitchiness.
Cheers
Brent
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You should try it and let us know how it works compared to the custom profile.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=208335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you send me a couple of boxes of A3+ paper and a set of cartridges I would be happy to play with the canned profiles. However the resulting effects on my hairline would mostly keep me from going down that path.
I would think that the waste costs of paper, ink, time, and frustration would so far out weigh the cost of having a custom profile made. So why go there?
One other good point of the Traditional paper here in Australia. It sells here for $99.00 AUD per A3+ box compared to the $150.00 USD + shipping ($175.00 AUD) I paid for the USA version.
Brent
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You should try it and let us know how it works compared to the custom profile.
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but... didnt you make the Epson profile Andrew?!
more interesting is to compare your (Epson) profile to that made by Innova for their paper, wink...
both are excellent and so close as to be identical - Innova's one seems to ink heavier than Epson one, so you get the tiniest bit deeper blacks (they use Velvet Fine Art as the paper profile), but Epson(yours?) has a slightly better shadow definition - just by the tiniest amount.
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but... didnt you make the Epson profile Andrew?!
more interesting is to compare your (Epson) profile to that made by Innova for their paper, wink...
both are excellent and so close as to be identical - Innova's one seems to ink heavier than Epson one, so you get the tiniest bit deeper blacks (they use Velvet Fine Art as the paper profile), but Epson(yours?) has a slightly better shadow definition - just by the tiniest amount.
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Exactly why I asked.
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more interesting is to compare your (Epson) profile to that made by Innova for their paper, wink...
Which particular Innova paper is that you are referring to?
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Which particular Innova paper is that you are referring to?
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Rumor has it that the Innova Ultrasmooth Gloss 285 GSM is the same paper.
Jim
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Rumor has it that the Innova Ultrasmooth Gloss 285 GSM is the same paper.
Jim
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If that's the IFA49, then I just checked and while similar, it's a warmer white than the TPP.
The white gloss (F Type) IFA09 is similar to the IFA49
I'm just finishing off some tests of the IFA58 and IFA59 semi-glazed and glazed papers and given the cost and fragility of the Epson TPP/EFP I think I'd probably prefer the semi-glazed (and it's available in 60" rolls if you wanted) - as ever paper choices are not something I'd ever argue about, since if you are printing your own images you know what it is you like best.
I'll probably have a review of those two papers up on the site in a couple of days (using the 4880 to print)
Another similar style of paper I've been looking at is a 300gsm 'oyster' finish one from a local supplier, which I'll see if I can write up next week.
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Just A FYI Incase Nobody New.. In The US If you buy three boxes Of Epson Exhibition Fiber Epson Will rebate The End User for the cost of one box!
Not a Bad deal
Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com (http://www.shadesofpaper.com)
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Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss 285GSM is not the same as IFA9. It is a very specific paper, (see Shades of Paper website for good list of Innova paper) Even close sounding Innova Photo Fibaprint Ultra Smooth 280gsm is a quite different material to Ultra Smooth Gloss 285gsm. (what is available in the UK I have no idea, but not so much I would guess)
I suggest going to Innova's website and downloading their free profile for that paper, and trying it on Epson Exhibition Exhibition Fiber (aka 'Traditional Photo Paper'). See what results you get with that, or at least at soft proof with it, and take a look.
Andrew - any comments on these 2 profiles, (Epson and Innova's) being as we know what we know
I find them both very, very good.
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Andrew - any comments on these 2 profiles, (Epson and Innova's) being as we know what we know
I find them both very, very good.
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Never used the Innova's paper so I can't comment. I'm not sure what you mean with respect to the profiles.
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Innova Ultra Smooth Gloss 285GSM is not the same as IFA9. It is a very specific paper
Could you give the IFA designations of any Innova papers you mention? since the names are all quite similar. IFA49 and IFA09 are indeed different
The samples of their paper I've been looking at all come direct from their UK HQ, and even the people there get confused over the exact wording of the names sometimes ;-)
The IFA 49 (USG285) is indeed very similar to the TPP/EFP but since I've got boxes of both of them sitting here, it is not he same. I can see that a relatively minor change in the manufacturing process could easily explain that ;-)
The IFA49 I looked at was from last year when their sheets had a pronounced tendency to curl, but this has been sorted (a slightly different backing), although not with any change to the front side colour or finish.
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Never used the Innova's paper so I can't comment. I'm not sure what you mean with respect to the profiles.
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"rumour has it that its the same paper" (see above) so... your profile for Epson and Innova's profile for their paper are for the same material, if that's true - both are so close as to be inter-changeable.
No need to use Innova paper to check this out - just download and soft-proof or gamut viewer compare, (or print on Epson paper if you wish)
just wanted to hear your expert opinion on the profile similarities/differences, thats all.
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"rumour has it that its the same paper" (see above) so... your profile for Epson and Innova's profile for their paper are for the same material, if that's true - both are so close as to be inter-changeable.
The profile(s) themselves wouldn't tell us this with any certainty.
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Since I'm in the process of looking at a whole load of papers, I've just printed two identical 1728 patch targets on A3 sheets, both on a 4880, both identical settings. IFA49 and TPP
I'll leave them to dry a while before popping them through the iSis and having a look at what turns up with a basic profile from PMP5.
Since it's now late Friday afternoon here, the profiling won't happen for a bit, but if anyone wants to mail me directly, I'll happily mail you the two sets of measurement data (I'll run it through UV and UV cut)
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very close but no cigar...
OK, it's comparing single sheets, with single sets of measurements, but the TFP slightly edges the IFA49 in its gamut (the IFA49 is an older box of paper though)
The surface finish is slightly different, however I suspect that if you were to use the TPP/EFP profile with the IFA49, then a lot of people wouldn't notice the difference ;-)
If anyone wants the comparisons of the measurements or data, to satisfy their curiosity even further, then feel free to mail me...