Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: hobbsr on June 18, 2008, 08:10:42 am
-
Hi All,
I wanted to start this new thread as the other one has gone a little off topic to assist my decision.
I really need some advice, experience, direction based on the H3D vs 645 AFD II P30 choice. It seems down now to a couple of things outside of cost:
1. H3D 1/800th shutter vs 645 1/4000th
2. Integrated vs open system
3. C1 vs Phocus
Gut feel I like the H3D for the integrated approach and IQ and build quality of the lens and feels sharper with the AF. The the iso perfromance of the P30 seems better, the overall cost of the system is better with Mamiya mainly due to lens. The 645 AFD II is I think a better body build but the lens are not the same as the HC.
In the end the heart wants to go H3D which will give me a one lens system! the mind is saying go with the P30 with warranty for the reburb, I can have a three lens system all for the same price but the image IQ seems just lesser in some way?
Help please, need to decide by Friday.
Rodney
-
Rodney, if you are not interested in using your digital back on a view camera or need an open system, this can be a large factor. Yes, the H3DII back can be used on a view camera, but requires an external FW battery hook up or the Image Tank. Do you need a focal plane shutter setup? Fast primes? Flexibility of zooms? Do you care about the software you use to process your images?
-
Hi there again Rodney
I can remember going through the same about 2 years ago and settled
on the then H2D39, my main reason was that I wanted an integrated system
so when anything would go wrong I only had to deal with one dealer and I would not end up
in a situation where the camera was blamed for the back's fault or vica versa.
I have not regretted that desicion as upgrading was made really easy and relatively
inexpensive to the H3D. Loan cameras+back were made available whenever needed.
Way back I did my research and did testing with leaf and phase one.
The only drawback I have with this system is using more then 200 iso;
just not usable full res, but for my application (architecture and interior) not such an issue.
Never needed more then 1/800 of a second, you will need a lot of light to use that though
at 50 iso
Phocus will give you an other 50% more iso but have not upgraded my Mac system to +10.5
and also have not seen any iso tests so cannot say anything about it
For the last 2 years i have been using Flexcolor which works flawlessly but looks antiquated.
wish you all the best
m*
-
Well I went Phase One P25 Plus and The new Phase/Mamiya body and could not be happier. But you have to look at your needs . If you shoot outdoors with flash and such than the leaf shutter is a benefit but Mamiya is coming out with some leaf shutter lenses also just not out today. Couple things of note P30 Plus today is ISO 1600 and it is a very good 1600 i tested it in San Juan on my workshop and was very impressed . Hassy today is Iso 800 with a promise that the next Phocus upgrade it will shoot up to ISO 1600. I would not put so much stock thinking Hassy lenses are better than Mamiya's either . There very close and i am getting very very impressive images from some really cheap lenses. Mamiya also has a D series set of lenses coming out right now plus there are a couple already out. Just some random thoughts the new Phase body AF is supposed to be faster , I'm waiting for mine right now so not sure. I had a H3 body here the other day and it is very nice with some nice ergonomics. Nice features and such so depends on what you are after here. I would not buy any MF back without full customer support. Again just my experience from buying from Capture Integration it has been nothing short of stellar support and hand holding. These guys rock in my book, I went with Lance but Chris here is also a rock start with Phase products. Just going by my experience but I know Steve Hendrix from PPr is also a really nice guy. Just whatever you do make sure the support is covering your ass really well. It is important don't let anyone fool you there. You need help or some product you want that support.
There both good systems and going either way you should be fine. Remember there using the same Kodak sensor so there is no difference in the quality of files but also pick software here. I love C1 and they have been around forever and it does a amazing job on the Phase files and corrections and future software features are coming real soon. Phocus is a new software and it is doing a nice job from what I hear but again maybe some growing is needed with the next version or two. Nothing wrong with that but you need to look at the whole picture ( no pun intended).
Now Hassy is considered a closed system and Phase a open one. This debate can go on forever but the bottom line once you are in with Hassy you stay in with Hassy. Phase if you decide to switch systems it can be done plus there are a lot of alternate things you can do with Phase. That is something you have to decide because the next 200 pages can over this debate. Again bottom line it is what it is and have to decide yourself. I chose Phase products and i am really happy about it but your needs are different than mine and everyone else. The great news here is you really can't blow it either way, there both great systems and will get the job done but it depends on what your needs are and your end result. I suggest you call Chris right now and get a demo of the Phase products if you have not done so and same with the Hassy system try this stuff out.
Good luck
-
Just going by my experience but I know Steve Hendrix from PPr is also a really nice guy. Just whatever you do make sure the support is covering your ass really well. It is important don't let anyone fool you there. You need help or some product you want that support.
Now Hassy is considered a closed system and Phase a open one. This debate can go on forever but the bottom line once you are in with Hassy you stay in with Hassy. Phase if you decide to switch systems it can be done plus there are a lot of alternate things you can do with Phase. That is something you have to decide because the next 200 pages can over this debate. Again bottom line it is what it is and have to decide yourself. I chose Phase products and i am really happy about it but your needs are different than mine and everyone else. The great news here is you really can't blow it either way, there both great systems and will get the job done but it depends on what your needs are and your end result. I suggest you call Chris right now and get a demo of the Phase products if you have not done so and same with the Hassy system try this stuff out.
Good luck
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202223\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Guy: Thanks for the nice compliment!
Rodney:
The issue of closed/open with regard to "locked in" is, in my mind, exaggerated. If you buy a Phase One back and decide to change cameras, you'll arrange for mount change - might be free, might cost you, depending on which package you purchased - and buy a new camera/lenses, etc and sell off your existing kit. If you decide to change digital backs, you'll keep your camera kit and sell the back.
Now, if you buy an H3DII, and decide to change cameras or backs, you will also have to sell your kit, but you'll sell the H3D as a complete kit, instead of selling either just the back or the camera/lenses.
It's not much different. You'll lose a little flexibility in selling it, but you will be selling one of the most popular products on the market - there will be a market for it. This is why I feel the idea of "locked in" is overblown, as if someone who buys an H3DII can't ever get out of it. You may take a loss, but you'll take a loss with any digital back/camera combo that you sell after some use. It can be expensive to change systems with any of the digital back/camera manufacturers. That is not proprietary to Hasselblad, regardless of the integrated approach.
You've narrowed it down to 2 good choices, and I won't try to sway you in one direction or another. But I feel the factor of being "locked" in is not as relevant as it is reputed to be.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
-
If the issue with teh P30 IQ is softness compared to the H3d-31, its probably focus error or the way the files are being processed. The files look different out of camera but they are the same, really. Have the dealers demoed the software?
My experience is that the digital parts are the same, the lenses are about the same, (sometimes an edge to the H, sometimes not, but not enough to make a difference) and it really comes down to the camera and workflow (software). So which did you like better, the Afd2 or the H3? And which software was speedy and intuitive?
Here is another thought. Since you are starting out, why not go a (relatively) cheaper and less problematic route and get the Canon 1ds3? Good for 80% of what any photographer wants to do. Build your portfolio with that camera and get an MFDB if you feel the need later. I shot most of my book on MF film and the 1ds2/5d. Rent a back when you need one. I just think its a little nuts to buy something so expensive when starting out, especially since they are not a good fit with many types of photography. Too many pixels and too slow for many jobs. I know you can make an MFDB work for most anything, but why torture yourself?
-
A Canon 1Ds III file does not compare to a P30 or an H3D II 31 in any way, shape, or form. It's like comparing fish to grapefruit. I'm not talking about resolution, but dynamic range, file integrity, and larger pixel sites. There's also a great promotional program running on the H3D II 31. The camera, finder, and 80mm lens are going for $18K.
-
Hi All,
Thanks for the comments, I just wanted to add that I shot currently with Nikon D3/D300 combo and Leica M8's. I am looking to add a different level of image by investing in a MFDB the key is add another level and type of image to what I already do. I also really want to focus on some fine art type projects as well as my portraits.
Satrting to think that for the same investment for the H3D and one lens maybe the zoom for flexibility, I can buy the 645 AFD II plus 3 lens and have the warranty for the reburb P30 which I can extend within the 12 months. Then I can add either another 645 AFD II body or new AFD III.
It would seem I can't add a body for the H3D system, so starting to feel this is a little more limited. Also more new D lens from Mamiya adds up to the overall system cost being lower.
Lastly any advice to the best C1 settings for the P30 files so I can get the best to compare?
Thanks again I think the path is becoming clearer.
Regards
Rodney
-
A Canon 1Ds III file does not compare to a P30 or an H3D II 31 in any way, shape, or form. It's like comparing fish to grapefruit. I'm not talking about resolution, but dynamic range, file integrity, and larger pixel sites. There's also a great promotional program running on the H3D II 31. The camera, finder, and 80mm lens are going for $18K.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202229\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This isn't about comparing. This is about business and where most files end up. I have a P30+ on a Mamiya system. If there is not a budget for retouching I do it, and looking at them close for hours I can say with confidence that the MFDB files blow 35mm dig away. No question.
That being said, when starting out with no clients I think it unwise to be limited by a MF system. Buy the Canon and a printer, learn about retouching, print a nice portfolio and get work. If an MFDB is justified, get it after you know what your market requires. Or try film for a while if you want to know what shooting MF is all about.
-
Hi All,
Thanks for the comments, I just wanted to add that I shot currently with Nikon D3/D300 combo and Leica M8's. I am looking to add a different level of image by investing in a MFDB the key is add another level and type of image to what I already do. I also really want to focus on some fine art type projects as well as my portraits.
Satrting to think that for the same investment for the H3D and one lens maybe the zoom for flexibility, I can buy the 645 AFD II plus 3 lens and have the warranty for the reburb P30 which I can extend within the 12 months. Then I can add either another 645 AFD II body or new AFD III.
It would seem I can't add a body for the H3D system, so starting to feel this is a little more limited. Also more new D lens from Mamiya adds up to the overall system cost being lower.
Lastly any advice to the best C1 settings for the P30 files so I can get the best to compare?
Thanks again I think the path is becoming clearer.
Regards
Rodney
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Rodney if you shoot the M8 like i do than this is pretty easy think 2 to 3 times what the M8 is putting out. Better DR , Res and file all around. Actually the M8 is a good backup to it since there very similar in look. Love the M8 files but the P25 plus just is so much better overall. I am truly impressed which is not easy to do for me. But i agree you must have a need for this on the business side to justify going this route, it is not for everyone and it does have some limitations . But I have clients already saying good things and that alone made it worth it to me.
-
Hi All,
Thanks for the comments, I just wanted to add that I shot currently with Nikon D3/D300 combo and Leica M8's. I am looking to add a different level of image by investing in a MFDB the key is add another level and type of image to what I already do. I also really want to focus on some fine art type projects as well as my portraits.
Satrting to think that for the same investment for the H3D and one lens maybe the zoom for flexibility, I can buy the 645 AFD II plus 3 lens and have the warranty for the reburb P30 which I can extend within the 12 months. Then I can add either another 645 AFD II body or new AFD III.
It would seem I can't add a body for the H3D system, so starting to feel this is a little more limited. Also more new D lens from Mamiya adds up to the overall system cost being lower.
Lastly any advice to the best C1 settings for the P30 files so I can get the best to compare?
Thanks again I think the path is becoming clearer.
Regards
Rodney
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That makes sense that you already have 35mm stuff.
As to P30 settings in C1 4, well, it depends on the image. I like to get a file close to how I want it to look then either retouch in Photoshop or send it to a retoucher with a file I've retouched to serve as a reference. As to settings, I usually try to get it right in camera, and since I mainly shoot under lights I can control contrast and highlights. I usually add some contrast and vibrance. In C1 4 the saturation slider works on color vibrance when going positive and saturation when going negative. That's really it. It doesn't have the control of, say, Lightroom, but it is FAST and presents a clean workflow.
I usually sharpen in Photoshop. Here is one point people miss with C1 4, and that is under the Output Tab there is a a checkbox that, if checked, does not sharpen the file at all when processed. You end up with an unsharpened tiff file in PS and people complain about the lack of sharpness of Phase backs or of C1. You might want to check and see if that box is checked.
If you want to compare the files from the H and the Phase you could convert the blad file to a dng and process it along side a P30 file in C1 4. I'd be interested in the results.
Edited to add: I'm not shilling for either system. They both make a beautiful file.
-
Hi All,
Satrting to think that for the same investment for the H3D and one lens maybe the zoom for flexibility, I can buy the 645 AFD II plus 3 lens and have the warranty for the reburb P30 which I can extend within the 12 months. Then I can add either another 645 AFD II body or new AFD III.
It would seem I can't add a body for the H3D system, so starting to feel this is a little more limited. Also more new D lens from Mamiya adds up to the overall system cost being lower.
Lastly any advice to the best C1 settings for the P30 files so I can get the best to compare?
Regards
Rodney
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Rodney:
If you mean a backup body for the H3DII system, yes you can order a spare as a backup. Hasselblad will actually take the digital magzine from your H3D/H3DII, and calibrate and position the sensor to exactly the same position so the Ultra Focus technology will work identically in both bodies. In case you didn't know, the Ultra Focus technology involves a known positon of the sensor with respect to the camera body/lenses and automatic adjustments are made as you change apertures from, say f4 to f16 for to ensure the accuracy of the focusing.
Again, with the introduction of the H3DII series, backup H bodies are now availbale for purchase for H2D forward to H3D and H3DII.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
-
Rodney:
If you mean a backup body for the H3DII system, yes you can order a spare as a backup. Hasselblad will actually take the digital magzine from your H3D/H3DII, and calibrate and position the sensor to exactly the same position so the Ultra Focus technology will work identically in both bodies. In case you didn't know, the Ultra Focus technology involves a known positon of the sensor with respect to the camera body/lenses and automatic adjustments are made as you change apertures from, say f4 to f16 for to ensure the accuracy of the focusing.
Again, with the introduction of the H3DII series, backup H bodies are now availbale for purchase for H2D forward to H3D and H3DII.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202237\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I used to think that Ultra Focus was some sort of marketing voodoo, but after talking to some friends with H3 systems, well, it does seem to ensure that the sensor is on the exact plain of focus. I always wonder if my back would be sharper if I added a shim.
-
This isn't about comparing. This is about business and where most files end up. I have a P30+ on a Mamiya system. If there is not a budget for retouching I do it, and looking at them close for hours I can say with confidence that the MFDB files blow 35mm dig away. No question.
That being said, when starting out with no clients I think it unwise to be limited by a MF system. Buy the Canon and a printer, learn about retouching, print a nice portfolio and get work. If an MFDB is justified, get it after you know what your market requires. Or try film for a while if you want to know what shooting MF is all about.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202233\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't know what you shoot, but if you are starting out and you want to train yourself to make a photograph rather than take a photograph, I would buy a used Aptus 22, or a p21 and stick it on an RZ and a heavy tripod.
Learn to see the image rather than run around with small cameras zooming and clicking the world until it looks good and you should be clear that a dozen or so extra million pixels will not make a bad photograph look good.
My first camera was a 4x5 view camera on an old majestic tripod and that probably taught me more than a room full of new nikons, or hasselblads.
Also I would definately buy a system that the file goes straight into photoshop. If your starting you don't need to become a workflow expert learning a dozen different converters you need to learn to make a photograph, process a photograph and probably effect/retouch the photograph yourself.
You also need something that works in the 200 to 400 iso range max so you learn to modifiy the existing light, rather than just cranking the dial until you have an acceptable expposure.
A hundred assistants pass my way each year and to all except one their work looks the same, dragging around their canon snapshots that aren't very well thought out or crafted. The one assistant whos work is outstanding shoots film with an old RZ and though he may only shoot 10 frames a day, those 10 are unique.
There are no absolutes in this business other than beautiful photographs are rarely easy.
If you use a camera that is somewhat difficult you will learn to see the photograph before you put a camera in front of your face.
Given all of this, I would even suggest film, other than film is a disappearing art and eventually you'll have to step over and learn the digital darkroom, so you might as well start that learning curve quickly.
These forums have a lot of sales messages and obviously they are going to mention the latest and the greatest, but few legends in photography bought into the latest equipment, even when they could afford it. If you saw the cameras that Guy Bourdin, Helmut Newton, Paolo Roversi used you would be very surprised.
Staring out your goal is to make a photograph and no camera will make you a better photographer. It's tempting to see all the shiny new dials, buttons, glossy brochures and be tempted to drink the Kool-aid, but remember your goal is to make yourself successful, not the dealers or the camera makers.
In other words don't learn how to do it, learn why you do it.
JR
P.S. Saying all of this you'll probably not go this direction and do what everyone does. First a lower cost medium format back, then a bigger, newer more expensive one, then another.
By the third purchase you will have moved your attention away from photography and over to cameras.
-
James
As usual, best advice one will get; even makes me feel less of an oddball for having gone from F4s to F3!
Rob C
-
I don't know what you shoot, but if you are starting out and you want to train yourself to make a photograph rather than take a photograph, I would buy a used Aptus 22, or a p21 and stick it on an RZ and a heavy tripod.
Learn to see the image rather than run around with small cameras zooming and clicking the world until it looks good and you should be clear that a dozen or so extra million pixels will not make a bad photograph look good.
My first camera was a 4x5 view camera on an old majestic tripod and that probably taught me more than a room full of new nikons, or hasselblads.
Also I would definately buy a system that the file goes straight into photoshop. If your starting you don't need to become a workflow expert learning a dozen different converters you need to learn to make a photograph, process a photograph and probably effect/retouch the photograph yourself.
You also need something that works in the 200 to 400 iso range max so you learn to modifiy the existing light, rather than just cranking the dial until you have an acceptable expposure.
A hundred assistants pass my way each year and to all except one their work looks the same, dragging around their canon snapshots that aren't very well thought out or crafted. The one assistant whos work is outstanding shoots film with an old RZ and though he may only shoot 10 frames a day, those 10 are unique.
There are no absolutes in this business other than beautiful photographs are rarely easy.
If you use a camera that is somewhat difficult you will learn to see the photograph before you put a camera in front of your face.
Given all of this, I would even suggest film, other than film is a disappearing art and eventually you'll have to step over and learn the digital darkroom, so you might as well start that learning curve quickly.
These forums have a lot of sales messages and obviously they are going to mention the latest and the greatest, but few legends in photography bought into the latest equipment, even when they could afford it. If you saw the cameras that Guy Bourdin, Helmut Newton, Paolo Roversi used you would be very surprised.
Staring out your goal is to make a photograph and no camera will make you a better photographer. It's tempting to see all the shiny new dials, buttons, glossy brochures and be tempted to drink the Kool-aid, but remember your goal is to make yourself successful, not the dealers or the camera makers.
In other words don't learn how to do it, learn why you do it.
JR
P.S. Saying all of this you'll probably not go this direction and do what everyone does. First a lower cost medium format back, then a bigger, newer more expensive one, then another.
By the third purchase you will have moved your attention away from photography and over to cameras.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202242\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
James is offering excellent and well thought out advice here. Morley Baer, the landscape photographer used a 50 year old 8x10 that apparently was held together with rubber bands. His photographs certainly don't look scruffy and worn out though. One of my photo teachers in the 1970s was Kryn Taconis, a member of Magnum, and a superb photojournalist. His Leica M3s were so beaten up we used to speculate that he probably dragged them behind his car on his way to an assignment.
-
I met with a very nice lady photographer yesterday.
Her styling of the models is very nice. She has beautiful images. She knows about fashion.
She doesn't have a usable camera so she expects to have one supplied.
She expects a technician to drive the computer.
She expects an assistant to do the lighting.
She expects a retoucher to handle color and postproduction.
She expects all the above accessories (hardware+slaves) to cost E300/day.
She actually manages to get all the above (Hassy+slaves+lights+studio) for E300/day.
I'm sure she'll make a name for herself - in my experience these are the people who get somewhere in the fashion world - ruthless with an understanding that if you know the right people any special skills can be got for almost free.
I'm really sorry for you James. You still belong to the old school who think that actually knowing how to do a job is necessary for success. The rest of the world knows that the only necessity is to have the connections to get the job and to find people who get it done, as long as the successful person can sign the result and keep the money.
Edmund
I don't know what you shoot, but if you are starting out and you want to train yourself to make a photograph rather than take a photograph, I would buy a used Aptus 22, or a p21 and stick it on an RZ and a heavy tripod.
Learn to see the image rather than run around with small cameras zooming and clicking the world until it looks good and you should be clear that a dozen or so extra million pixels will not make a bad photograph look good.
My first camera was a 4x5 view camera on an old majestic tripod and that probably taught me more than a room full of new nikons, or hasselblads.
Also I would definately buy a system that the file goes straight into photoshop. If your starting you don't need to become a workflow expert learning a dozen different converters you need to learn to make a photograph, process a photograph and probably effect/retouch the photograph yourself.
You also need something that works in the 200 to 400 iso range max so you learn to modifiy the existing light, rather than just cranking the dial until you have an acceptable expposure.
A hundred assistants pass my way each year and to all except one their work looks the same, dragging around their canon snapshots that aren't very well thought out or crafted. The one assistant whos work is outstanding shoots film with an old RZ and though he may only shoot 10 frames a day, those 10 are unique.
There are no absolutes in this business other than beautiful photographs are rarely easy.
If you use a camera that is somewhat difficult you will learn to see the photograph before you put a camera in front of your face.
Given all of this, I would even suggest film, other than film is a disappearing art and eventually you'll have to step over and learn the digital darkroom, so you might as well start that learning curve quickly.
These forums have a lot of sales messages and obviously they are going to mention the latest and the greatest, but few legends in photography bought into the latest equipment, even when they could afford it. If you saw the cameras that Guy Bourdin, Helmut Newton, Paolo Roversi used you would be very surprised.
Staring out your goal is to make a photograph and no camera will make you a better photographer. It's tempting to see all the shiny new dials, buttons, glossy brochures and be tempted to drink the Kool-aid, but remember your goal is to make yourself successful, not the dealers or the camera makers.
In other words don't learn how to do it, learn why you do it.
JR
P.S. Saying all of this you'll probably not go this direction and do what everyone does. First a lower cost medium format back, then a bigger, newer more expensive one, then another.
By the third purchase you will have moved your attention away from photography and over to cameras.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202242\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
I met with a very nice lady photographer yesterday.
Her styling of the models is very nice. She has beautiful images. She knows about fashion.
She doesn't have a usable camera so she expects to have one supplied.
She expects a technician to drive the computer.
She expects an assistant to do the lighting.
She expects all the above accessories (hardware+slaves) to cost E300/day.
She actually manages to get all the above (Hassy+slaves+lights+studio) for E300/day.
I'm sure she'll make a name for herself - in my experience these are the people who get somewhere in the fashion world - ruthless with an understanding that if you know the right people any special skills can be got for almost free.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't pay attention to people like this and honestly nobody should. If she gets a good image on paper fine, but anybody can buy art, few can make it, fewer still can make it on demand with their own talents and skills.
There is nothing new about that statement and has gone since probably the paint brush was invented.
Then again I don't understand how this is relevent to this discussion.
JR
-
I don't pay attention to people like this and honestly nobody should. If she gets a good image on paper fine, but anybody can buy art, few can make it, fewer still can make it on demand with their own talents and skills.
There is nothing new about that statement and has gone since probably the paint brush was invented.
Then again I don't understand how this is relevent to this discussion.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202251\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It's relevant to the "Learn to see the image" remark. Best way to learn to see the image is to just concentrate on that part and leave everything else to the tech guys. What does the image have to do with the camera ?
What I mean is - the best exercise to learn may be to tell someone else to run the camera and concentrate on the rest of the set.
Edmund
-
JR,
I had this conversation with some people last night, some photogs but most were designers and CD's. Oh, and a cinematographer. We had all read the APE piece and the Robert Wright piece on the topic. The consensus we reached was that the technology is homogonizing the look of photos by forcing (or "encouraging") people to chimp, blast off 10 frames a second, up the ISO to 12000000 when light gets iffy, use F4 Zooms with IS instead of primes, and they do it all with the same cameras and lenses. There is a lack of reflection by many photographers that doesn't allow their work to improve, which is reinforced by art buyers who pigeonhole people. This feeds into the one hit wonder problem where a newbie will win an award/get recognition but is really only capable of producing good work by chance, because they hit the 10 fps button on the Canon/Nikon and hope something good happens. There is also a lack of visual literacy, or at least a lack of knowledge of any visuals or art movements that came before 1960. When shooting MF and larger film, you have to previsualize, as you said, MAKE a picture. Even with 35mm film, you could see a situation that presented itself as a photograph and then you would have to visualize what you thought it could be and then work to get the shot in two or three frames and with whatever speed film you had loaded at the time.
That being said, 35mm dig has its place, but the technology offers a path of least resistance because of its ease of use, and its this ease of use that produces the homogenaity. You have to have either been trained in film or work very, very hard to avoid the trap. if you are starting out in commercial photography, you must shoot digital, and a 35mm dig is easy and painless, allowing you to not think about the camera, and its a nominal investment, but it can be a trap.
I think people focus on their cameras way too much. What makes a picture isn't the dynamic range of your "larger than full frame 35" digital sensor or the razor sharpness of your H lenses. Its the same as it always has been: subject, composition and light. If you learn to light, put some thought into composition, any subject can be made interesting. Learn how to light and even a crappy subject can produce a beautiful picture even taken with a Holga or an old 35mm FM2. I suggest buying light and modifiers instead of an expensive camera. I always own my own lighting. I have enough light, grip and modifiers to pull off most of the productions I might work on if I couldn't rent. Investing in lighting over the years has paid off much beter than any digital camera or computer. For some reason people don't get in a tizzy over lighting like they do for a camera, but you know, they should. I guess its that the camera gets the "Wow that thing is awesome!" from people when they see it, but the lighting gets the "My gawd is beautiful, it looks like Rembrandt, I think I'm going to weep" when they see the photo. Which response is more important?
Rob C:
Speaking of the F4, I still have my F4 I bought new in 1990 when I did Photo J. Its been to Africa, dropped hundreds of times, I've hit someone with it in the fomer East Germany. The AF is super slow but the VF is so bright manual focusing is enjoyable! I had an F3HP that was fantastic. A girlfriend stole it when we parted ways in 1993.
-
It's relevant to the "Learn to see the image" remark. Best way to learn to see the image is to just concentrate on that part and leave everything else to the tech guys. What does the image have to do with the camera ?
What I mean is - the best exercise to learn may be to tell someone else to run the camera and concentrate on the rest of the set.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202253\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't agree and understand I'm not Jealous or bitter or even give a shit for that matter.
Your talking about someone who buys their photogrpahs and has the audacity to swing their arms around like some Roman director and then say they made the photo.
Maybe there is talent in learning how to leverage laziness and a self centered attitude to some form of popular success, but there is probably talent in become a Drug Lord, though it really is nothing to aspire to.
Personally I don't care about these people any more than I care about whether Brittney Spears wears panties.
These "photographers" are not in the same business I am in and the only thing we have in common is we both hold cameras from time to time.
The point that I take objection to is you say she will or is a success and I find nothing sucessful about having someone else do your work for you then claim the results.
JR
-
Philosophical commentary aside, I was faced with the same decision and went with the Mamy/P30+.
Coming from Canon equipment to this combination I was blown away by the IQ and usability of the combination. The Hassy kind of turned me off with their closed architecture but in the end the P30+ won out because of its long exposure capabilities.
I think you definitely want to forego the AFD II for the AFD III or Phase Body if you decide on the Mamy.
I am a little puzzled by your IQ comments since they are almost identical at low ISO using the same basic hardware. Could be you had a bad lens in the mix but the newer Mamy glass is pretty outstanding on the P30+.
BTW: What does Brittany Spears panties have to do with this anyway?
-
I met with a very nice lady photographer yesterday.
Her styling of the models is very nice. She has beautiful images. She knows about fashion.
She doesn't have a usable camera so she expects to have one supplied.
She expects a technician to drive the computer.
She expects an assistant to do the lighting.
She expects a retoucher to handle color and postproduction.
She expects all the above accessories (hardware+slaves) to cost E300/day.
She actually manages to get all the above (Hassy+slaves+lights+studio) for E300/day.
I'm sure she'll make a name for herself - in my experience these are the people who get somewhere in the fashion world - ruthless with an understanding that if you know the right people any special skills can be got for almost free.
I'm really sorry for you James. You still belong to the old school who think that actually knowing how to do a job is necessary for success. The rest of the world knows that the only necessity is to have the connections to get the job and to find people who get it done, as long as the successful person can sign the result and keep the money.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This hasn't been my experience. There are photographers who don't own anything. They order packages from a studio, then hire a tech and a gaffer and a set designer and a stylist. I've been the gaffer in this situation. We have preproduction meetings and we draw up lighting diagrams. We then have a lighting day. Everyone shows up on set, all of the gear is delivered, we set up, we shoot, the tech, client and photog make some selects/proofs are emailed while we strike the set, selects go to a retoucher etc . . . Sort of the same deal you are describing but the shooter actually knows what/how to light, how that camera works, etc.
To be honest, my experience with people who have connections but not much talent or the skill to execute a vision is that they fade quickly. My wife is an MUA. She was asked by a friend of hers, who is a model with DNA, to do makeup for a test shoot for an "emerging" photographer. My wife says of course, anything for you. The "emerging" photographer was a complete ass. He is well connected, about 22. He was nervous and rude, never paid my wife the customary and agreed kit fee of $75, and never sent her prints for her book. This was a few years ago. This guy isn't taking pictures now.
-
James,
Of course I'm being ironic, but I do wonder whether we shouldn't be using the cinema paradigm of separating production, direction, photography/light and postprod and crediting every member of the team. Which would give exactly the right amount of (deserved) credit to those people who can pull things together and also to their associates. This would also encourage people to stay with what they are best at.
Edmund
I don't agree and understand I'm not Jealous or bitter or even give a shit for that matter.
Your talking about someone who buys their photogrpahs and has the audacity to swing their arms around like some Roman director and then say they made the photo.
Maybe there is talent in learning how to leverage laziness and a self centered attitude to some form of popular success, but there is probably talent in become a Drug Lord, though it really is nothing to aspire to.
Personally I don't care about these people any more than I care about whether Brittney Spears wears panties.
These "photographers" are not in the same business I am in and the only thing we have in common is we both hold cameras from time to time.
The point that I take objection to is you say she will or is a success and I find nothing sucessful about having someone else do your work for you then claim the results.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202265\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
JR,
...
I think people focus on their cameras way too much. What makes a picture isn't the dynamic range of your "larger than full frame 35" digital sensor or the razor sharpness of your H lenses. Its the same as it always has been: subject, composition and light. If you learn to light, put some thought into composition, any subject can be made interesting. Learn how to light and even a crappy subject can produce a beautiful picture even taken with a Holga or an old 35mm FM2.
...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202258\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I would agree but I would love to see the fashion/photo industry have a no ring-flash month.. just a month of shooting with out a ringflash.. maybe the use has gone down but talk about being locked into and relying on equipment to make your look.. as photographers we are equipment dependent.. the digital revolution made us old guys go back to learning new technologies, I never wanted to be a image processor but an image maker.. but guess what I spend time doing now.. processing/tweaking the image.. and as a finished image they are better than the film I use to deliver.. I hate to say this but most of the clients are none the wiser...they may recognize a fad or style but very few non photographers can look and judge a photograph, hell, most photographers can't.. I wish I had more clients that could see the difference; appreciate light and composition, but I shoot to my standards and compromise as needed.
Getting back to the question.. it may seem like a big choice but it really isn't.. just pick one and do it.
-
I would agree but I would love to see the fashion/photo industry have a no ring-flash month.. just a month of shooting with out a ringflash.. maybe the use has gone down but talk about being locked into and relying on equipment to make your look.. as photographers we are equipment dependent.. the digital revolution made us old guys go back to learning new technologies, I never wanted to be a image processor but an image maker.. but guess what I spend time doing now.. processing/tweaking the image.. and as a finished image they are better than the film I use to deliver.. I hate to say this but most of the clients are none the wiser...they may recognize a fad or style but very few non photographers can look and judge a photograph, hell, most photographers can't.. I wish I had more clients that could see the difference; appreciate light and composition, but I shoot to my standards and compromise as needed.
Getting back to the question.. it may seem like a big choice but it really isn't.. just pick one and do it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202271\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'll pass your "no ring" request on to the powers that be, but use the ring wisely and it doesn't look like a ring, rather a big fill source, especially outside or behind a big sheet of difusion.
I think that even the most depraved, materialist, semi-educated, striving douchbag junior designer at Saatchi can recognize and tell the difference between a crappy photograph and a well executed, well lit photograph. They can tell whats good, assuming the visual grammer isn't to sophisticated, because they are involved in making images. The problem clients are the ones who are not involved or even interested in visuals.
Again to the OP: pick one based on workflow and which camera makes sings to you.
-
I think that even the most depraved, materialist, semi-educated, striving douchbag junior designer at Saatchi can recognize and tell the difference between a crappy photograph and a well executed, well lit photograph. They can tell whats good, assuming the visual grammer isn't to sophisticated, because they are involved in making images. The problem clients are the ones who are not involved or even interested in visuals.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202274\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I use to have this opinion.. I don't think so anymore.. as a whole, most art directors and designers are highly over-rated imho..
they are many that see better than photographers.. but most are only slightly ahead of the visually clueless clients they serve. Oh they think they are miles apart but how many agencies are run by creatives? not many.. so we are all kissing ass to the new marketing director of xyz, inc. who up til last month was asst. to the purchasing dept manager..sorry to be so cynical.. my last job was/is killing me with second guessing.." we might know it when we see it" backseat driving... okay I am done now and feel much better.
-
TMARK
You must really be careful with girlfriends: there´s that musical manual about the Forty(?) Ways to leave your Lover which might stand you in good stead, though it´s probably out of production now...
As I mentioned in my recent couple of posts about Mz Leibovitz´s documentary, she seems to do very well with a Mamiya 6x7, still with film insofar as I could make out; the Leica certainly was a film one.-
Rob C
-
Yeah Mark you are right. Light is everything. I also invest more in my lighting equipment than in camera stuff. I own almost all bron lighting stuff you can buy. Ok I got most of it for half price (I life near the factory) but lighting is key to me.
If you wanna build up your portfolio it is important that you can hit the street at any time and be ready for anything you have in mind. It will slow you down if you have to rent your light all the time and it will cost more at the end.
I would rather buy a 5D and a lot of light than start out with a MF cam and almost no light.
You will get much further that way.
I went total digital 4 years ago with the 1Ds mark2. Now I got the Mark3 and I'm thinking about a hassy for the first time. It's not about pixels more about DR, framing and flash synch.
After 4 years I finaly would say that I'm ready for the next step.(I had an RZ in the film days)
So I would start out with the 1Ds3 and a lot of light. That will bring you very, very far.
Other than that, I would go the hassy way. Everything is streamlined.
Like Apple. One brand and no one else to blame.
Ah and did I say 800th flash sync
Tim
-
1. H3D 1/800th shutter vs 645 1/4000th
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202218\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
645 with flash 1/125
h1 with flash 1/800
If you are flash monkey you may well findyouself wanting to hurl the mamiya out of the window
or at least by a RZ and more lenses
-----------
James - Im glad you think skill and talent win - most encouraging
S
-
645 with flash 1/125
h1 with flash 1/800
If you are flash monkey you may well findyouself wanting to hurl the mamiya out of the window
or at least by a RZ and more lenses
-----------
James - Im glad you think skill and talent win - most encouraging
S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202284\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Skill and talent always win the day but I do think great gear in your hands and the real knowledge of getting the most out of it helps win the day. I do believe in having the technical savy to know your shit to deliver the art. Some want to shoot a Holga great have a blast i lived in the dark days and was raised on the old school stuff and i thank my stars i learned that way but I am not on this planet to struggle to get my art either. Give me the best tools to make my life a little easier. It's a balance and i enjoy that balance. I think we need to remember part of your skill is mastering your tools also or else you walk into a wall every day.
-
James,
Of course I'm being ironic, but I do wonder whether we shouldn't be using the cinema paradigm of separating production, direction, photography/light and postprod and crediting every member of the team. Which would give exactly the right amount of (deserved) credit to those people who can pull things together and also to their associates. This would also encourage people to stay with what they are best at.
Edmund
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=202269\")
Edmund you break my brain, because though I find you interesting, I'm not really clear on what you do.
But to get back to your quote.
Yes, in a lot of instances, (mine and others) still shoots begin to resemble a small cinema production and when the vehicle warrants I give credit where credit is due.
[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/paris_prod2.mov]http://www.russellrutherford.com/paris_prod2.mov[/url]
Then again, the still business is way different than the moving picture business. For one we have no unions, gauranteed starting wages, health care and insurance for crew or even for the photographer so we are in a much different business model.
Also on a cinema shoot the director is not required to hold a camera, craft the light, even direct the light, so even though every director comes with a different skill set and can work differently, their is no slight or shame in being a director that can't load an Arriflex.
Still photography is based on a different tradition where the photographer does multiple duties and works as the director, the DP, the camera operator and usually the lighting director.
So, most of us would probably never think about Hitchcock loading a Maxwell, we would also never think about Weston turning to some student from Art Center (if there was an Art Center then) and saying "I don't know what to do, so just make it like this spread that Man Ray shot.
In all the photographic world, fashion gets the worst rap (probably deservedly) because a lot of fashion photographers know more about a blow drier than a Mamiya, but just because that is one business model that works, it doesn't mean it should be everyone's way of doing business.
But to take this back to the original thought which is what camera to buy? Buy what you want but remember that the difference between an 18mpx back and a 31 mpx back means nothing to 99.99999999999% of all the clients in the world.
The ability to frame to fit a layout, make a color that is unique, deliver on deadline, process with ease, shoot without breakdowns and issues are a lot more important than just boasting about megapixels and/or trying to save $3,000.
Trust me on this the wrong camera purchase will cost any photographer a lot more than $3,000 and I stand by my buy an RZ. Actualy I would say buy anything that allows you to use different lenses, not just the manufacturer supplied half dozen or so.
This was shot withh that Russian Tilt shift and I would have a hard time doing this with any other lens.
(http://www.russellrutherford.com/1B/image/usewonderland.original449.jpg)
JR
-
Hi Everyone,
Thanks again for the very interesting views and comments. I think that the key to the whole business is have ideas that we execute via a format in this case photography is a format to communicate our ideas. We all needs tools that assist in that task. The craft is the craft and no camera or lens will help a bad idea become good or a bad image become great just as photoshop can not save the world. I have over my brief time back behind a camera looked to get back to basics and create great images, back to using the craft and skill to create the image.
The move and this thread is about helping me have a tool to support that process. I have some key questiosn that you all might be able to assist with:
1. Will the H3D 1/800th shutter speed be to limiting?
2. The H3D has the focus option to align the back with the body but I was told this was only available on the H3D II?
3. Can you purchase just the H3D body also can the H3D back work on other H system bodies like H1 or H2?
Lastly I really would like so clear views to the pros and cons of these systems based on your own decisions. I know both are great systems and in some ways I can not go worng but as James as pointed out the workflow will be key.
I have tested both systems but only in a limited way based on availability of demos and the H3D is a used body. but I have only shot with a P30+ and am not sure if I go and get the P30 that the IQ will be very different? I know that the + will of course have some improvements.
Thanks again for your thoughts
-
Hi Everyone,
Thanks again for the very interesting views and comments. I think that the key to the whole business is have ideas that we execute via a format in this case photography is a format to communicate our ideas. We all needs tools that assist in that task. The craft is the craft and no camera or lens will help a bad idea become good or a bad image become great just as photoshop can not save the world. I have over my brief time back behind a camera looked to get back to basics and create great images, back to using the craft and skill to create the image.
The move and this thread is about helping me have a tool to support that process. I have some key questiosn that you all might be able to assist with:
1. Will the H3D 1/800th shutter speed be to limiting?
2. The H3D has the focus option to align the back with the body but I was told this was only available on the H3D II?
3. Can you purchase just the H3D body also can the H3D back work on other H system bodies like H1 or H2?
Lastly I really would like so clear views to the pros and cons of these systems based on your own decisions. I know both are great systems and in some ways I can not go worng but as James as pointed out the workflow will be key.
I have tested both systems but only in a limited way based on availability of demos and the H3D is a used body. but I have only shot with a P30+ and am not sure if I go and get the P30 that the IQ will be very different? I know that the + will of course have some improvements.
Thanks again for your thoughts
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202317\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nobody can answer this for you but a word of caution, if the file won't open directly in photoshop then copy off 3,000 dot whatever files and covert them and see how well that works for you and process them in photoshop or lightroom to see if you like the look.
The reason I bring this up is not because I'm in love with PS or lightroom, but because I know that all the manufacturer's softwares come and go. Overall I think the Phase software is the most stable I've used, especially for adjusting batch images and making jpegs, but they can all have glitches and every manufacturer has their main software in development right now, which means they are all working out some kind of bug, so the standby is photoshop or lightroom.
Now saying that I process at least half my single files to finish in Brian's Raw Developer because it just has the best look for every camera I use.
It's a little clunky, not that great for batching but for a single file, man it's the digital answer to make your own beautiful film.
Also remember if you buy into a system that does make you do file conversion from the makers file to a dng you probably are going to double your storage space and until you have 60 terabytes of data you won't understand what an issue this can become.
JR
-
I second this. RD is spectacular. Cheap, deserves greater exposure.
And if you have Canon, Canon's DPP is also very spectacular for color and sharpness.
Here in Paris what I hear often is that the photographer is the one who talks to the client. The assistant is the one who takes the shots.
Edmund
Now saying that I process at least half my single files to finish in Brian's Raw Developer because it just has the best look for every camera I use.
It's a little clunky, not that great for batching but for a single file, man it's the digital answer to make your own beautiful film.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202318\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
Or you buy the system that best fits your needs (both camera and software), and learn to use the "necessary" software just as every MFDB user has. Did photographers wake-up one day, and miraculously know how to use (and navigate) such an "intuitive" software as CaptureOne. I don't think so...
By the way, Hasselblad certainly does not require you export as a DNG. Processing .fff files direclty in Phocus or FlexColor offers numerous image quality and work-flow advantages over a DNG workflow. Isn't that the point, finding the appropriate (or ideal) tool for the job. In my experience, newer and better tools (on occasion) require newer and better skills.
Speaking of a overcoming cumbersome RAW file work-flows. How does RAW file editing with no required side-car / XML files sound? As this has been a feature of the .fff file format since it's inception (almost 15 years ago).
Regards,
Jordan Miller
...Also remember if you buy into a system that does make you do file conversion from the makers file to a dng you probably are going to double your storage space and until you have 60 terabytes of data you won't understand what an issue this can become...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202318\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
-
This thread has brought out some fine posts. James is eloquent as usual.
I feel for you all working with AD's and directors, though I know it is part of that game.
As for lighting (and by extension how you see the image) - yes, it is more important than the camera. 1/800th sync limiting?- that is pretty extreme.
The camera systems: obviously it is primarily a personal preference for what feels and works best for your style of shooting at the time. Alas, there are less choices now than there were in the film days.
-
1. Will the H3D 1/800th shutter speed be to limiting?
2. The H3D has the focus option to align the back with the body but I was told this was only available on the H3D II?
3. Can you purchase just the H3D body also can the H3D back work on other H system bodies like H1 or H2?
Lastly I really would like so clear views to the pros and cons of these systems based on your own decisions. I know both are great systems and in some ways I can not go worng but as James as pointed out the workflow will be key.
I have tested both systems but only in a limited way based on availability of demos and the H3D is a used body. but I have only shot with a P30+ and am not sure if I go and get the P30 that the IQ will be very different? I know that the + will of course have some improvements.
Thanks again for your thoughts
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202317\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
H3D back will not go on H1 or H2
and it is not possible to purchase H3D body alone
The whole point of this system is that it is integrated
Morgan made a good point about 1/800 flash sync
Also agree verymuch with TMark with his lighting comment.
just a side comment
It never seizes to amaze me how some posters always seem to
drift to their same endless postulations, regardless of the initial subject
and regardless of them being right or not.
m*
-
I agree with Tim and others above - invest in some lighting first and get to know it well- then go for the camera - you'll spend a fortune renting lighting to learn it. you can learn lighting with a 40D, D300, 5D, film, etc, etc...
-
" we might know it when we see it" backseat driving...
How recognizable. I have those clients as well. I tend to be very open with these people. Kind of like, "Fine by me if you don't exactly know what you want but you do know that costs extra, don't you?".
I see it happen very often. What I really hate is when you see that they don't have a clue what they are after and try to hide it behind an attitude of arrogance.
Having said that, I also very much enjoy working with some AD's, CD's & stylists. The ones that know what they are doing are a delight to work with.
-
H3D back will not go on H1 or H2
and it is not possible to purchase H3D body alone
The whole point of this system is that it is integrated
Morgan made a good point about 1/800 flash sync
Also agree verymuch with TMark with his lighting comment.
just a side comment
It never seizes to amaze me how some posters always seem to
drift to their same endless postulations, regardless of the initial subject
and regardless of them being right or not.
m*
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Marc - Just FYI - you certainly can purchase an H3 body (as a spare). I believe any digital magazine from any H3D would work on it. The only think lacking would be Ultra Focus, if it was not calibrated to the digital magzine at the factory.
You can purchase a brand new backup "H3" camera body for an H3D and the cost will be roughly the same as a Mamiya 645AFDII and significantly less than a Mamiya AFDIII.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
-
Marc - Just FYI - you certainly can purchase an H3 body (as a spare). I believe any digital magazine from any H3D would work on it. The only think lacking would be Ultra Focus, if it was not calibrated to the digital magzine at the factory.
You can purchase a brand new backup "H3" camera body for an H3D and the cost will be roughly the same as a Mamiya 645AFDII and significantly less than a Mamiya AFDIII.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202389\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Steve,
I think you should mention the matching H3d Carrying case that Hasselblad is offering.
(http://ishotit.com/pacerblad.jpg)
JR
-
LOL, James.
Platinum and champagne color scheme, I hope?
-Ron H.
-
Steve,
I think you should mention the matching H3d Carrying case that Hasselblad is offering.
(http://ishotit.com/pacerblad.jpg)
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202395\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
James, you know that offer was discontinued some time ago....
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
-
James,
I agree that the case for your Contax is nicer, but the wheels are optional.
[attachment=7102:attachment]
-
James,
I agree that the case for your Contax is nicer, but the wheels are optional.
[attachment=7102:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202451\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's pretty funny and your right, except mine are still working and they're black.
Black's good and if they ever stop working for around 1k I can have the mount changed and then put it on one of those pacers, or a mamiya, or even pick up a few dozen more contax bodies and not worry about it.
JR
-
That's pretty funny and your right, except mine are still working and they're black.
Black's good and if they ever stop working for around 1k I can have the mount changed and then put it on one of those pacers, or a mamiya, or even pick up a few dozen more contax bodies and not worry about it.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202460\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Black is a good color for looking chic in a tuxedo or an evening dress. But black also absorbs the maximum amount of heat and electronic components like to keep it cool daddy-o.
And if the few remaining medium-format camera makers end up like the Pacer and AMC, you'll still be able to scrounge up parts from the truly dead ones and even find working pieces to use for quite awhile afterward. So, no worries!
-
Marc - Just FYI - you certainly can purchase an H3 body (as a spare). I believe any digital magazine from any H3D would work on it. The only think lacking would be Ultra Focus, if it was not calibrated to the digital magzine at the factory.
Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202389\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
oops!
misinformed by my rep!