Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Terence h on June 05, 2008, 04:01:58 pm

Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: Terence h on June 05, 2008, 04:01:58 pm
First i must say the people at Leaf are great very helpful with excellent service.

But i would like to use Liveview with my 4x5 so i gave my local agent a call , the price is crazy
something like 1246 Euros for the dongle , i cannot believe the cost.

In the future i think they should simply bundle it with the DB when it is sold , yes i know i could have got a deal when i bought the DB but is too late now and i cannot pay those sort of numbers.

Regards
Terence
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: snickgrr on June 05, 2008, 04:20:08 pm
I agree.
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: pixjohn on June 05, 2008, 04:23:27 pm
I think Live video is free with the new Aptus 75S

I had to pay $1200 for my dongle.  Maybe try and buy it in the US
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: AndrewDyer on June 05, 2008, 07:02:42 pm
I was fortunate enough to get mine during some sort of promo earlier this year...
Peartree in London sold it to me for £500.
The promo was initiated by Leaf I believe, so it may not be up to the dealers.
It may be worth shopping around though to see if you can get it cheaper than that...
Ir sure is worth having when attached to a 4x5 camera.
Good luck
A
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: pprdigital on June 05, 2008, 08:43:50 pm
Quote
I think Live video is free with the new Aptus 75S

I had to pay $1200 for my dongle.  Maybe try and buy it in the US
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199934\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Leaf frequently runs Live Video dongles on promo in the USA - currently if you purchase an Aptus 75 or 75-S, you get the Live Video for free as well as the Toyo VX23D view camera, a very small and light little view camera.

While Leaf does charge a hefty price for the Live Video compared to its competitors, it is - to my eyes - clearly superior to its competitors with the exception of the Sinar digital backs with the auto-exposing Sinar LC Shutter for Live Video. But that also adds an additional price.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: robert zimmerman on June 06, 2008, 04:40:05 pm
If anyone is interested I have one that I'd part with. i also have a graflex adapter for contax mount
leaf backs that I'm looking to sell.
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: robert zimmerman on June 07, 2008, 04:21:06 am
btw, if anyone is interested in a trade i need a hassy hc 80mm.
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: Streetwise on June 10, 2008, 08:46:06 pm
Quote
While Leaf does charge a hefty price for the Live Video compared to its competitors, it is - to my eyes - clearly superior to its competitors with the exception of the Sinar digital backs with the auto-exposing Sinar LC Shutter for Live Video. But that also adds an additional price.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199989\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree. The out-of-the-box Live Video for Sinar is horrid. The Leaf Dongle, while pricey, is very nice. I got mine used on eBay for $995.

Dave
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: JTFOTO on June 17, 2008, 10:36:35 am
I am with Phase now on a P45 and the Live Preview is horrible!!!!

I do miss my live preview on my Leaf backs.  I don't shoot still that often, but is a nice feature when i do shoot still.
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: free1000 on June 19, 2008, 03:17:16 am
Quote
I agree. The out-of-the-box Live Video for Sinar is horrid. The Leaf Dongle, while pricey, is very nice. I got mine used on eBay for $995.

Dave
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If anyone sees one for this kind of price... let us know.
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: dkiang on June 19, 2008, 04:03:36 pm
Quote
First i must say the people at Leaf are great very helpful with excellent service.

But i would like to use Liveview with my 4x5 so i gave my local agent a call , the price is crazy
something like 1246 Euros for the dongle , i cannot believe the cost.

In the future i think they should simply bundle it with the DB when it is sold , yes i know i could have got a deal when i bought the DB but is too late now and i cannot pay those sort of numbers.

Regards
Terence
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199930\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I don't understand Leaf Capture's customer service in Los Angeles.  In order to get any response I have to contact my vendor?  There isn't any tech support from the company itself?  The local vendor is so busy with other customers and selling cameras there isn't much of a CS.  The call waiting and interruptions are a bit annoying.  The Leaf Capture v11 has got the worst interface so far.  The early versions were far more superior.  And the lamest part is not being able to right click or use the tab key when typing in the text fields.  WTF?
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: yaya on June 19, 2008, 04:48:16 pm
Quote
I don't understand Leaf Capture's customer service in Los Angeles.  In order to get any response I have to contact my vendor?  There isn't any tech support from the company itself?  The local vendor is so busy with other customers and selling cameras there isn't much of a CS.  The call waiting and interruptions are a bit annoying.  The Leaf Capture v11 has got the worst interface so far.  The early versions were far more superior.  And the lamest part is not being able to right click or use the tab key when typing in the text fields.  WTF?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=202463\")

Your US contact for technical support: [a href=\"http://www.leafamerica.com/service.asp]Leaf America TS[/url]
And for any sales matters in your area: Regional Sales Managers (http://www.leafamerica.com/contact.asp)

Hope this helps, Right-Click and tabbing are being worked on.

Yair
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 19, 2008, 05:55:11 pm
Gidday,

I tell ya what rips' my undies about Leaf Live Video is that even with the exposure turned down as low it can go it still blows out.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: pprdigital on June 19, 2008, 06:37:01 pm
Quote
Gidday,

I tell ya what rips' my undies about Leaf Live Video is that even with the exposure turned down as low it can go it still blows out.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202483\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Unfortunately, that is an issue that all digital backs suffer from, overexposure of the sensor. You can also try adding filters - ND, etc, that can also be helpful.

The only Live Video that does not suffer from this is the Sinarbacks when using the Sinar LC Shutter, which acts as an auto-exposing shutter for Live Video. No flaring with that solution. But it is proprietary to the Sinar digital backs.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 20, 2008, 03:20:02 am
Quote
Unfortunately, that is an issue that all digital backs suffer from, overexposure of the sensor. You can also try adding filters - ND, etc, that can also be helpful.

The only Live Video that does not suffer from this is the Sinarbacks when using the Sinar LC Shutter, which acts as an auto-exposing shutter for Live Video. No flaring with that solution. But it is proprietary to the Sinar digital backs.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202489\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi Steve,

I've been told to use ND filters but  frankly when you spend thousand of dollars for such soft wear it should work properly.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: thsinar on June 20, 2008, 04:05:33 am
Simon,

the only right way to get a perfect live image is by using a lcd shutter like the Sinar one, otherwise the sensor gets saturated very quickly when light is hitting it continuously: the read-out time is not quick enough to avoid saturation. A lcd shutter closes a few times per second, allowing the sensor to never reach the saturation level.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Hi Steve,

I've been told to use ND filters but  frankly when you spend thousand of dollars for such soft wear it should work properly.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202540\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: pprdigital on June 20, 2008, 08:53:27 am
Quote
Hi Steve,

I've been told to use ND filters but  frankly when you spend thousand of dollars for such soft wear it should work properly.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202540\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Simon

It's more a technical limitation rather than improper function. This product is not designed for what it is being asked to do. It definitely has limitations as a result, but in the right environment, those limitations can be tamed, and it becomes exceedingly useful.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: yaya on June 20, 2008, 02:16:04 pm
The Aptus S and the AFi backs, due to the faster readout and FW800, provide better Live-View than the non-S backs and in many cases do not require any filtering.

Yair
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 20, 2008, 07:35:43 pm
Quote
The Aptus S and the AFi backs, due to the faster readout and FW800, provide better Live-View than the non-S backs and in many cases do not require any filtering.

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202607\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Gidday Yair,

Typical manufacturer's remark.

In other words I have to spend more money to up grade my Apus 75 to a 75s to get the results I should get with my Aptus 75

Great,

Simon
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: pixjohn on June 20, 2008, 07:39:37 pm
Indoors I never really have problems with live video and outdoors I use 2 x ND lighting filters with no problems. I guess I have never seen better live video so it works good enough for my needs.

Quote
Gidday Yair,

Typical manufacturer's remark.

In other words I have to spend more money to up grade my Apus 75 to a 75s to get the results I should get with my Aptus 75

Great,

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202648\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: yaya on June 20, 2008, 07:49:38 pm
Quote
Gidday Yair,

Typical manufacturer's remark.

In other words I have to spend more money to up grade my Apus 75 to a 75s to get the results I should get with my Aptus 75

Great,

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202648\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually it's a Gidnight but thanks for the complement Simon  

As Steve mentioned, Live Video on these CCDs is almost a "side effect" so we're using the S & AFi's extra horsepower to improve it.

You can either spend more money or stick to what you've got now and use ND filter when required, I guess...

Yair
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 21, 2008, 07:41:30 pm
Hello Yair,

So what you are telling me is that leaf are happy to sell sub standard soft wear to make a buck?

Cheers

Simon
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: James R Russell on June 21, 2008, 08:49:51 pm
Quote
Actually it's a Gidnight but thanks for the complement Simon  

As Steve mentioned, Live Video on these CCDs is almost a "side effect" so we're using the S & AFi's extra horsepower to improve it.

You can either spend more money or stick to what you've got now and use ND filter when required, I guess...

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202650\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yair,

At this stage of forum life you should know that no good deed ever goes unpunished.

JR
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: yaya on June 22, 2008, 03:30:34 am
Quote
Hello Yair,

So what you are telling me is that leaf are happy to sell sub standard soft wear to make a buck?

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not really...the Aptus already offers better LV than most other solutions and the S/AFi only makes it better....as technology moves forward, we get to improve this function...

Yair
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: HarperPhotos on June 22, 2008, 03:37:34 am
Quote
Not really...the Aptus already offers better LV than most other solutions and the S/AFi only makes it better....as technology moves forward, we get to improve this function...

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202801\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]




Gidday Yair,

Why cant Leaf update the Leaf Capture soft wear so the exposer adjustment can go darker?

Simon
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: yaya on June 22, 2008, 03:43:13 am
Quote
Gidday Yair,

Why cant Leaf update the Leaf Capture soft wear so the exposer adjustment can go darker?

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=202802\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Changing the slider's movement won't change the fact that the sensor gets saturated. We could slow the frame rate down but then we won't be calling it Live View anymore....

Yair
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: robert zimmerman on June 22, 2008, 04:03:08 am
Hi Simon,

you seem to be having severe problems with the Live View funtion and are obviously upset about how it's working. Have you had a situation where you we're not able to focus with it because of its short comings?
I realize how frustrating it can be when some aspect of the software doesn't work to your expectations in a situaton where the client is breathing down your neck!

could you please clearly state what it is that you need from the Live View function? What shooting situations you're using it in and what you would like it to be like?
This should help Leaf (Yair in this case) to have an idea what their customers (you) expext and need with Live View and help them to come up with solutions and suggestions to overcome the problems you're having.

I only used Live View in the studio and it worked for me quite well, so I can't help you with any suggestions, but I'm sure Yair will get back to you with some kind of workaround if you let him know exactly what you're experiencing.

Best of luck, Kipling
Title: Leaf Liveview Dongle
Post by: E_Edwards on June 22, 2008, 06:37:05 am
As a still-live photographer I use the Leaf Live View every day.

Given a few tweaks, we are all more or less agreed that all medium format backs have similar image quality. So you are looking for things that are individually beneficial to the way you work, important practicalities that sway us to go for one system in preference to another.

In my case, the Leaf Live View was simply the best I could find. And since for the kind of work I do, focussing is critical and composing on a large monitor is quicker and very helpful in making small tweaks to the items in the set, I went for Leaf and haven't regretted it at all, the two Leaf backs have given my studio impeccable continuos service for the past two years, very reliable, and they do get used!

I considered the Sinar lcd solution which ostensibly gives you a better live view, but when I saw the contraption, it was a massive, heavy thing that would make the already heavily laden view camera, a bit unwieldy.

If you are a photographer who has never experienced Live View, it comes as a bit of a shock, as it did to me, I simply couldn't believe that 20 grand camera backs could have such archaic live view, grainy, slow, oversensitive to light and to contrast ratios, a disaster!.  All sorts of technical problems were explained and understood, but I never accepted and never will until someone out there decides to find a way to do it properly, thinking out of the box, it probably needs to be something like a miniaturised Sinar lcd, something light and simple in the way of attachment, or maybe a redesign of the chip or software and eletronics, but there is probably little call for it, and no overwhelming competition, so no financial incentive to make it.

I saw what the competition offered, and they were worse, or non existent.

So Leaf Live View it is, you have the best of the Live Views, it's quirky, slow and temperamental, but there is nothing better (built in), so it pays to get used to it, as we have. Like many things digital, you quickly learn to adapt and work within their restrictions.

It works amazingly well in medium to low contrast sets, but it starts to struggle on high or low key sets. We often use the main light with the modelling light at its minimum power (and the light is generally quite diffused anyway) If you use very direct undiffused light, you'll probably have problems. Some people use a very low power, diffused tungsten light just for that purpose. I reckon a 30Watt bulb will be more than enough, but it pays to experiment, it you find the optimal light, the refreshing rate of the image will be at its fastest. It doesn't like fluorescent tubes, for some reason, I think their phasing creates stripes on the live view.



Edward