Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: JerryReed on April 28, 2007, 06:46:38 am
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Knowing that the readers of this board are critically evaluating their color work, I would like to pose this question for your recommendations.
I am looking at buying a larger monitor for my color work, because I often am in situations where the customer for my giclees is looking at the monitor with me to critically evaluate color before the print is made.
I would be interested in experiences of owners of monitors larger than the 24 inch DELL that I am using now, and what you might recommend.
I would like to add that I am very grateful for the several recommendations of the SINAR 54H, which based upon recommendation made here, I purchased and am using with great satisfaction.
Jerry Reed
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Put the NEC 2690wuxi on your list for consideration.
Nill
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www.toulme.net (http://www.toulme.net)
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Another vote for the NEC 2690 - with the Spectraview option - a dream to callibrate.
What surprise me abut mine was that within about 15 minutes I'm thinking - this is a nice size, how could I have worked previously on the postage stamp sized 19"?
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Try Eizo...
I have the Coloredge 24 monitor, it's wonderful...
-axel
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Neither Eizo nor Quato make anything over 24"
There is the Apple 30"
..and a new Lacie 26" with breakthrough pricing: http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1176393601.html (http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1176393601.html)
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That Lacie appears to be a rebadged NEC 2690wuxi (which is not unusual for Lacie) and its "breakthrough pricing" looks to be higher than the NEC's (which is also not unusual for Lacie).
Nill
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www.toulme.net (http://www.toulme.net)
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Nill, you mean a rebadged NEC 2690 Spectraview?
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I have a Eizo ColorEdge CE240W attached to my Mac Pro 8 core. It's awesome.
I also have a Dell 27 widescreen. It's very affordable, however, I could not get the neutral luminance to calibrate properly using Eye One unless I manually reduced the individual RGB channel brightness to about 75%. Other than that, it's a nice monitor too. Since I retired my Dell workstation, I use this monitor as the 2nd display for my MacBook Pro 15" in my home office.
I lust for the 30" Apple display now that I run Macs, however, I 've heard rumors that a new line of Apple displays are to be introduced later this year. We'll see.
Bud James
North Wales, PA
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Nill, you mean a rebadged NEC 2690 Spectraview?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=114791\")
Well, I think it's a 2690wuxi one way or the other. In the US, "SV" models come with the Spectraview software and an Eye One Display 2 colorimeter. I understand that in Europe, the "Spectraview" designation means it comes with the Spectraview software (which is different from the US version) and a monitor hood, but no puck. Or you can buy just the bare monitor. In the US you can buy the Spectraview software separately. In the past that was not possible in EU, you had to get it with the monitor or not at all. I don't know whether that remains true or not.
All of which is more info than you asked for, sorry. NEC 2690wuxi, either in SV/Spectraview flavors or not, it's a grand monitor. It won Best of Show in the Display category at Mac Expo this winter.
Nill
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[a href=\"http://www.toulme.net]www.toulme.net[/url]
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I am new at MF digital but I am very pleased with the Apple 30". I calibrated it with an eye-one with out problems. Today I shot some test shots with a gretagmacbeth color chart and the comparison between monitor and chart was very good with only WB adjustment.
Steve
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NEC 2690wuxi, either in SV/Spectraview flavors or not, it's a grand monitor.
I wonder if there is more difference between the wuxi and spectraview.
The wuxi is rated as covering 92% of AdobeRGB, and the SV covers 95%. That being the case, there are more differences than just accessories like a hood.
The LaCie covers 95% of AdobeRGB too, and looks identical to the SV so I assume it's a rebadged SV. I guess you could shop around and see which one you can find cheaper.
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What's slightly disappointing about these monitors is that despite their size they have a resolution of only 1920x1200. I say 'only' because even my 14" laptop is 1400x1050. What is the point in having a large monitor without extra resolution?
Years ago some WQUXGA monitors were introduced: 3840x2400 (e.g. Viewsonic VP2290b, IBM T221).
What happened to these high-definition monitors?
Even the current Apple 30" is only 2560 x 1600 (or Dell UltraSharp 30" WFP, Samsung 305T) (Btw, I can't find a figure for this display's AdobeRGB coverage)
On the positive side, the LaCie and NEC can be rotated to portrait orientation which is great for editing portrait photos in Photoshop. Can that be done with the Apple 30'? Is there a stand which will allow this?
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Apple Cinema 30" - don't forget that for this monitor you'll need a graphics card that provides dual link DVI.
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I wonder if there is more difference between the wuxi and spectraview.
The wuxi is rated as covering 92% of AdobeRGB, and the SV covers 95%. That being the case, there are more differences than just accessories like a hood.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=114838\")
In the past, European "Spectraview" models were also "hand selected and calibrated." (They also had a firmware tweak that made it impossible to run the Spectraview software on non-Spectraview versions of the monitors.) AFAIK, this was not true of US models, and I don't have any idea whether it remains true for European models in the current line. Is there any talk of that sort of thing in the European NEC literature?
Nill
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[a href=\"http://www.toulme.net]www.toulme.net[/url]
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Years ago some WQUXGA monitors were introduced: 3840x2400 (e.g. Viewsonic VP2290b, IBM T221).
What happened to these high-definition monitors?
Those pricey displays were more marketed towards the medical industry for the 200ppi. Its high resolution also required TWO (or more?) video cards to drive.
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What's slightly disappointing about these monitors is that despite their size they have a resolution of only 1920x1200. I say 'only' because even my 14" laptop is 1400x1050. What is the point in having a large monitor without extra resolution?
I'm also looking for a display with a higher than 1920x1200 resolution. FWIW, one non-obvious catch I've noticed during my search is the fact that there are problems with HDCP which doesn't work with higher resolutions/dual-link display modes on many graphics cards. I.e. if you want to to play protected content (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) check the specs carefully.
Personally, I don't need HDCP right now but I tend to use displays for a rather long time and I'm sure this will be an issue in the future.
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Those pricey displays were more marketed towards the medical industry for the 200ppi. Its high resolution also required TWO (or more?) video cards to drive.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114851\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
they were great, 15 yrs ahead of their time, and are are still about on EBay, The T221 DC5 is the best and last version, but...
they have a quite restricted Gamut compared to modern monitors. (I have an icc profile for one somewhere), as it wasn't made for colour pros, but for technical design, nobody looked at the colour range much.
they also require a special card to drive , e.g Matrox makes one (its $2400)
they do NOT work off dual link cards, or even dual-dual link cards.
At the moment the best we have is 30" displays, though hopefully someone will move to at least 150dpi 30" monitor running from a dual dual link card soon.
I think the failure of the T221 (IBM lost a fortune on it) has scared most manufacturers away from ultra high res displays, though hopefully this will change.
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That Lacie appears to be a rebadged NEC 2690wuxi (which is not unusual for Lacie) and its "breakthrough pricing" looks to be higher than the NEC's (which is also not unusual for Lacie).
Nill
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www.toulme.net (http://www.toulme.net)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114749\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
We are having a LaCie Open House on May 10. LaCie will be the featured vendor and the LaCie 526 LCD will be the featured product. We already have a LaCie 321 Color Accurate in demo/rental (a fine monitor, though not quite at the Eizo ColorEdge level, but close, and over $1,000 less). It will be interesting to compare the two.
We have also requested from LaCie information regarding the differences between the NEC version and the LaCie version. It is not necessarily an exact match, in terms of the entire package, and we have asked LaCie to provide this information to clarify any differences or advantages.
We prefer to sell the LaCie brand, as they are and have been focused on and committed to color accurate display technology for quite some time. It's a core part of their technology offerings. NEC is a much larger company for whom dropping the NEC 2690 technology would mean little in the overall scheme of things. We see NEC positioned similarly to Sony with regard to the Artisan monitor, which is a distant memory now for Sony and it's customers.
Steve Hendrix
Professional Photo Resources
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I would also like to get the Lacie.. but only if there is in indeed a difference from the NEC model.. otherwise I will go the NEC route.
Currently using 2405 Dell and calibrates ok, but viewing angles are horrible
-p
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Hi all :-)
im working with the HP LP3065 and i´m in love with it :-)
here is a link to the HP webside:
HP LP3065 (http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3297215.html)
and here is an german review of the LP3065 :HP LP3065 review (http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2007/test-hp-lp3065.html)
I´m using this tft with an NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT with no problems.
Editing pictures with PS CS is just like it should be ;-)
And pictures from a MFDB look perfect..they are so real that you think that you can touch them :-)
kind regards
Janosch
www.jsfotografie.de (http://www.jsfotografie.de)
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I have a macbook pro laptop
Can I set up my system so my primary monitor is in landscape mode while the secondary displays in portrait mode? That would be very usefull for me.
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I have a macbook pro laptop
Can I set up my system so my primary monitor is in landscape mode while the secondary displays in portrait mode? That would be very usefull for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114981\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, you can. Well at least in Windows mode you can. Now can someone please tell me how I can get it back to normal
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I know that Matrox makes a DVI splitter/etc.. that takes your DVI port and makes you able to tether 2 1900x1200 LCDs at full res.. so 3800x1200
But to have one portrait and one landscape.. thats tricky
-p
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How the Spectraview differs...
I have the 26" and its brilliant. The Spectraview version includes
1) The hood (still waiting for mine to arrive), monitor also has the hood attachment magnetic strips ready for it.
2) The Spectraview calibration software. This is a version of the highly regarded BasicColor and is easy to use.
3) Hand checked to be in colour tolerance.
4) Guaranteed to have zero dead pixels.
There may be some other differences I'm not fully aware of. Note that on the PC when the machine boots, some loader software sets the profile in the monitor hardware (the colour noticeably changes when this happens).
Seems that its a reasonable package for the extra money.
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How the Spectraview differs...
I have the 26" and its brilliant. The Spectraview version includes
1) The hood (still waiting for mine to arrive), monitor also has the hood attachment magnetic strips ready for it.
2) The Spectraview calibration software. This is a version of the highly regarded BasicColor and is easy to use.
3) Hand checked to be in colour tolerance.
4) Guaranteed to have zero dead pixels.
There may be some other differences I'm not fully aware of. Note that on the PC when the machine boots, some loader software sets the profile in the monitor hardware (the colour noticeably changes when this happens).
Seems that its a reasonable package for the extra money.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115155\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In case it hasn't been explicitly noted before, what is included with the Spectraview version depends on location - in North America you don't get the hood, but do get the puck.
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In case it hasn't been explicitly noted before, what is included with the Spectraview version depends on location - in North America you don't get the hood, but do get the puck.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=115170\")
And in NA, as far as I can tell, you don't get the "hand checked" and "zero dead pixels" either.
Nill
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[a href=\"http://www.toulme.net]www.toulme.net[/url]
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I've put two Dell 2405FPW on my Mac G-5/dual proc 2.7Ghz.
Frankly, I'm disappointed in them. Very difficult to get a true calibration with them - I'm using the X-Rite Pulse system. There is a definate lack of ability to adjust contrast and color balances to put the monitor in the right space.
In short, I would not recommend the Dells. I'll be selling them on eBay once I define what to replace them with.
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What is most disappointing about the new lacie is that the vertical resolution is only 1200, the same as the Lacie 321 which I currently have. So, unless you want to put the monitor in portrait mode (which I wouldn't) you are not gaining anything when working on vertical images (which I do 90% of the time). All you are getting is more room for your pallets.
Jeff
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That's sort of in the nature of a widescreen monitor though, no? It's not much larger, if any, in the vertical dimension than your 321.
Nill
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www.toulme.net (http://www.toulme.net)
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I'm beginning to realise that there's no monitor which does it all. Perhaps having 2 is the answer. A low-res monitor which is highly colour-accurate for reviewing colour/tonal balance, and another monitor with a high pixel count for general editing work. Ideally the main working monitor would be rotatable between portrait and landscape. The thought of working with a 30" monitor in portrait mode with 2560 pixel height is very enticing.
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I don't see why. Why not a high-res monitor that is highly color accurate, and just use it in portrait mode? The 2690 would give you 1920 pixels that way. Wouldn't that be enough? You can always put your pallettes and whatnot on another screen that doesn't even need to be calibrated.
Nill
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www.toulme.net (http://www.toulme.net)
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I too was really hot to go with something like the 30" Apple. However after discussing this with others and a consultant in color management I went with the Eizo CE240W. I am very happy I did, excellent monitor and the company is very committed to support and service.
I am going to make a comment about LaCie. I did have a LaCie monitor and it was troublefree. But over the last two years in regards to their external drives LaCie has prove themselves to be a less than stellar company in the area of customer support. On many boards and many many times I, and I am not alone, have read and discussed of the failures of their drives and worse, the total lack of response and support from LaCie. They have caused many photographers a great deal of grief. A Google search and a search on many of the forums on the pro boards will confirm this. As such I would urge everyone to stay clear of any LaCie product. LaCie has earned this distinction and it deserves to be shared.
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I am going to make a comment about LaCie. I did have a LaCie monitor and it was troublefree. But over the last two years in regards to their external drives LaCie has prove themselves to be a less than stellar company in the area of customer support. On many boards and many many times I, and I am not alone, have read and discussed of the failures of their drives and worse, the total lack of response and support from LaCie. They have caused many photographers a great deal of grief. A Google search and a search on many of the forums on the pro boards will confirm this. As such I would urge everyone to stay clear of any LaCie product. LaCie has earned this distinction and it deserves to be shared.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115433\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I totally agree, and very well put.
avoid LaCie.
not a decent company, at all. take your business elsewhere.
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I replaced my Apple Cinema 23" in December. I was considering the 30" but the vendor I talked to, who also sells Apple, recommended the Eizo 24" for its resolution, color fidelity and on-board calibration software. I use a Monaco Optix with it and everything matches up seamlessly with my printer (HP Z2100). What I see on screen does match my prints, regardless of paper (as long as they are profiled in the printer).
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I replaced my Apple Cinema 23" in December. I was considering the 30" but the vendor I talked to, who also sells Apple, recommended the Eizo 24" for its resolution, color fidelity and on-board calibration software.
Resolution? In what way is 1900x1200 better than 2560x1600? I'm happy to believe that the Eizo gamut is wider but this is the point I have been making already - one has to choose between resolution and gamut. If someone came out with a 30" monitor will full Adobe RGB gamut (without price penalty), it would clean up.
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Samsung's upcoming 30" LED-backlit model claims Adobe1998, except it's 4:3 proportioned (fine with me).
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsung...0-inch-monitor/ (http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsungs-xl-30-led-backlit-30-inch-monitor/)
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Samsung's upcoming 30" LED-backlit model claims Adobe1998, except it's 4:3 proportioned (fine with me).
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsung...0-inch-monitor/ (http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/15/samsungs-xl-30-led-backlit-30-inch-monitor/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115807\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Wow, 3000:1 contrast ratio, 2560x1600, full Adobe RGB, built-in calibration, around $3K. That's a lot of money but it's also a tool you could enjoy using for at least 10 years.
Would be perfect if it could swivel to portrait mode. Retouching a portrait image with a 2560 pixel high screen would be fantastic.
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Where are those figures from, both the resolution and price?
-It's a 4:3 proportion panel, so it'll be different from Apple's + HP's.
-I highly doubt it'll cost only $3,000 with B+H selling Eizo 21" CCFL-backlight CG211s at $2900
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Where are those figures from, both the resolution and price?
-It's a 4:3 proportion panel, so it'll be different from Apple's + HP's.
-I highly doubt it'll cost only $3,000 with B+H selling Eizo 21" CCFL-backlight CG211s at $2900
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=115816\")
Here: [a href=\"http://gadgetmaniac.mail2web.com/2007/03/samsung-xl30-led-monitor/]http://gadgetmaniac.mail2web.com/2007/03/s...30-led-monitor/[/url]
and here: http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/new...USB-Displays/p1 (http://www.trustedreviews.com/displays/news/2007/03/16/Cebit-2007-Samsungs-30in-LED-Backlit-USB-Displays/p1)
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Thanks for the links.
Here's a post from [H]ard Forums comparing the XL30 with others and speculation of the panel being OEM'ed by Apple, Dell, Eizo + HP:
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=10...8&postcount=379 (http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1030668098&postcount=379)
Any info as to when the XL30 will be available?
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Any info as to when the XL30 will be available?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115826\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
One article stated August 2007.
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Wow, 3000:1 contrast ratio, 2560x1600, full Adobe RGB, built-in calibration, around $3K. That's a lot of money but it's also a tool you could enjoy using for at least 10 years.
Would be perfect if it could swivel to portrait mode. Retouching a portrait image with a 2560 pixel high screen would be fantastic.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115813\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The thing that worries me is that they mention 3000:1 dynamic contrast.. I'm guessing it will work as most of todays LCD projectors, that it will change brightness depending on the content. That is if the picture shown on screen is dark then it will decrease lightness and if it's bright then increase it.
I don't want any fake contrast values like this..
Having a real 3000:1 constrast at the range 150 cd/m2 to 0.05 cd/m2 would be nice.
What I find almost always missing from monitors specs is the darkest blackpoint.
Most manufacturers try getting high contrast values by increasing maximum lightness instead of decreasing blackpoint, which gives you a much lower real contrast as soon as you calibrate the monitor to a usable lightness around 120-150 cd/m2.
I agree that it would be wonderfull to work on photos at 2560 pixels (or higher!).
IBM sold (or still sells?) some screen with 200 and 400 ppi resolution. Would be terrific to to retouch in 1:1 resolution compared to printing, so having a 24" 300 ppi screen would be really nice.
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Here is a link to the IBM monitor I mentioned (T221):
http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/fi/intellist...o/why_t221.html (http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/fi/intellistation/pro/why_t221.html)
This is the 204 ppi one, that is 9.2 MPixels!
It probably isn't good for retouching, don't know about color gamut, viewing angles or response time..
For further information on this display and some rebranded versions by Viewsonice etc:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T221 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T221)
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Another vote for the NEC 2690 - with the Spectraview option - a dream to callibrate.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114697\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
And another vote for the NEC 2690.
We had the GM Eye-One Pro, so we bought the display only and added the Spectraview software download from NM-Select.com. Calibration of the onboard 12-bit LUT and profiling are fast and easy; viewing angle is exceptional; according to the specs, 91% of the RGB color gamut is displayed (its truly a joy to work with); and for those of us who need portrait in the camera room and landscape in the work room, auto image rotation allows image switching between portait and landscape automatically.
Two thumbs up!
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I found this page interesting. Samsung 305T v Dell 3007WFP HC:
http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/661/ (http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/661/)
The Dell looks like a great bang-for-the-buck display, with a decently wide gamut. The uneven backlighting is a concern. Would it be fair to assume that the new LED backlights are more even, as well as providing wider gamut?
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I'm resurrecting this thread as I am getting closer to being able to get a decent monitor.
How do you swivel between portrait and landscape on a Mac? As you rotate the monitor, does the monitor sense the orientation and let the Mac know? Does this happen automatically? Or does one have to rotate the monitor and then change a setting somewhere to change the display settings?
After so many recommendations for the NEC 2690WUXi, I had a closer look. It can be had for under EUR 1000 now, ex tax. It seems very interesting apart from disappointing resolution for the size, imo, (lower resolution than the top Macbook Pro!) and it covers only 92% of AdobeRGB gamut.
There are a few 30" monitors which look interesting (e.g. Dell 3007WFP-HC, also 92% Adobe RGB gamut), all with 2560x1600 resolution. None of these rotate, afaik, so in fact a rotated NEC 2690 in portrait orientation gives a little more vertical headroom (it's 1900x1200), but the rest of the time you get over 4 megapixels compared with 2.3 MP for the NEC. Hmm...
Are there any monitors with resolution higher than 1900x1200 which can rotate into portrait mode?
Then there's the issue of LED-backlit displays (e.g. Samsung XL30) which promise lower power consumption, better longevity, wider gamut (full AdobeRGB) and more even lighting. All very tempting, but are these out yet? How much will they be?
By the way, the rumours of a 4:3 Samsung XL30 seem to be wrong. Here are official specs of the Samsung XL30:
http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?arti...35F3&show=specs (http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=2AA18C62-B937-49ED-8741-E3C3369D35F3&show=specs)
As you can see, resolution is 2560 x 1600, and it is due out mid December. No hint as to price though.
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Another vote for the NEC 2690 - with the Spectraview option - a dream to callibrate.
I too am quite happy with the unit. I've been working with it a lot on a very big project and I'm impressed.
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Had the Apple 23" several years ago, upgraded to the current Dell 24" at the time (about 2 years ago). Apple was getting old and dim, the Dell looked very crisp in contrast. Dell had more aliasing. Since then moved to the Apple 30". Screen size blows you away at first. Then you get used to it and wonder how you ever managed with such puny monitors in the past! Tried the new Dell 30 HC version, but I had 100's of dancing pixels with it. It was returned (still waiting on that credit come to think of it...)
With the Apple and Dell 30-inchers side by side, I couldn't tell a difference between Dell's HC, 92% of the RGB space, blah, blah, blah... It's backlighting was a bit more even. Apple looked smoother, more pleasing. Tried calibrating, etc. If the Dell didn't have the dancing pixels, I would have kept the Dell just because it was new (and sold the Apple).
I've had 6 or 7 LCDs and all of them have had a 1/2 life of about 1 to 1.5 years. The pixel response slows down, ghosting increases, backlighting wanes, color shifting becomes more of an issue. I would buy the Dell just because I view the display as disposable items. Maybe the new LED ones will have a longer shelf-life - at least I hope so because I'm tired of dropping around $2k every 24 months. My current 30" just came back from apple after having its panel replaced (under the AppleCare agreement). The backlighting started to fail about 6 months after the initial purchase. I expect the 30" will be sent back to Apple yet again within the next 12 months. The AppleCare warranty is $99 and extends coverage for 2 years. Dell comes with a 3 yr warranty. Overall the Dell is much more affordable. Whether it's better or worse, I think it's a tie. YMMV
On the video card, you'll need 256 MB w/ dual link DVI. More and faster is better - aka 512 MB w/ a higher/faster GPU. Downside is added fan noise.
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Eizo's 30" is due in December:
http://www.eizo.com/press/releases/pdf/CG301W_pr.pdf (http://www.eizo.com/press/releases/pdf/CG301W_pr.pdf)
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Thanks for the comments John.
Tried the new Dell 30 HC version, but I had 100's of dancing pixels with it.
What are dancing pixels?
On the video card, you'll need 256 MB w/ dual link DVI. More and faster is better - aka 512 MB w/ a higher/faster GPU. Downside is added fan noise.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=143666\")
Are you saying that the Macbook Pro with 128MB video RAM won't drive this monitor? The Apple website indicates otherwise (see [a href=\"http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html)]http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html)[/url]. Can anyone confirm from experience one way or the other?
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EIZO seems like the Barco of yesteryear...HUGE plusses and minuses to the niche brand that no longer is with us...
LaCie, Apple + some others seem to do a very good job for a reasonable price...
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Apple 30inch. Best monitor I have ever owned. Im pretty sure there price has gone down as well.
Mike
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Thanks for the comments John.
What are dancing pixels?
Are you saying that the Macbook Pro with 128MB video RAM won't drive this monitor? The Apple website indicates otherwise (see http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html) (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html)). Can anyone confirm from experience one way or the other?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143676\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Dancing pixels are pixels which flicker different colors. They are not dead pixel, just ones that twinkle. Search "dancing pixels" on the apple discussion forums and it should return some hits from early to mid 2006. The issue is the DVI bandwidth. The 2560x1600 resolution is saturating buss; the data pipe is filled. There's a clocking parameter TDM, or TDMI, something like that which can be scaled back and eases the load. There was a utility available (3rd party) for tweaking this on ATI cards. Time has marched on and the problem is gone with Apple monitors. People suspected the that Apple slowed something down in the monitor rather than video card. Who knows... that's all speculation.
The video card must be dual link DVI and all modern cards will be 256 MB anyway. If you have an existing card, it'll need dual link and maybe 128 MB is sufficient, but it'll be slow. 2560x1600 (30") is alot more pixels than 1920x1200 (typical 24"). I'm using a ATI 9650 256 MB card in a G5 mac and a Nvidia 7300 GT (256 MB) card in the other Mac (new Quad 3.0 GHz w/ PCI express). It's hard to compare the two systems because the new Quad has about 4-8x more raw horsepower than the old machine. If you plan to use 30" on a PC, I have no experience there.
On the whole I highly recommend a 30" monitor. It's first monitor size where I feel like a get the overall feel for the image - and I'm just shooting a 1Ds2. I can't imagine how guys with the 39 MP backs can manage with smaller monitors. With 30" @ 2560 x 1600 I can see 98% of the 1Ds2 image at 50% - which is pretty close to how it will look in print.
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The 3-year extended warranty on my 30" cinema display just ran out and it remains the best monitor I've ever used. I'm also still using the very first cinema display that ever came out - a 22" model that I paid five grand for - worth every cent. I'll buy a their next 30" or larger model as well. Shopping for a cheap monitor is like using a wal mart polarizing filter...
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I too am quite happy with the unit. I've been working with it a lot on a very big project and I'm impressed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143659\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Andrew
I have a quick question for you.
When we use our CRT monitors, we can adjust the contrast ratio.
How big of a issue, is it that LCD monitors have a fixed contrast ratio?
Would it be a better choice, to choose a LCD display with a low contrast ratio such as 500:1?
Best,
Esben
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Knowing that the readers of this board are critically evaluating their color work, I would like to pose this question for your recommendations.
I am looking at buying a larger monitor for my color work, because I often am in situations where the customer for my giclees is looking at the monitor with me to critically evaluate color before the print is made.
I would be interested in experiences of owners of monitors larger than the 24 inch DELL that I am using now, and what you might recommend.
I would like to add that I am very grateful for the several recommendations of the SINAR 54H, which based upon recommendation made here, I purchased and am using with great satisfaction.
Jerry Reed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114686\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
FOLLOW UP
As a follow up to my earlier posted question, I wanted to let everyone know that at last I have made a decision about my monitor. In defense of my tardy pace of decision making it is not all that easy to get actionable information. After speaking to lots of folks, I confess that I relied most upon user information in making my decision: Folks who are fine art reproduction guys. So, this might not be a suitable match for other photographers' pursuits.
I am ordering a EIZO 211 with hood from CHROMIX today. Thanks again for all the exceptional feedback and shared experiences and advice -- as usual.
By the way the Sinarcam 2 works great in the 16-shot mode. My theory is that the Mamiya 645's mirror movement was creating the loss of clarity in the shots.
Thanks again for all your excellent help,
Jerry Reed
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I'll be ordering a Eizo ColorEdge CG301W monitor,
It will be available in Sydney in about 4 weeks at a price of $4K AUS.
I can't wait.
Cheers.
WR.
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Hi Andrew
I have a quick question for you.
When we use our CRT monitors, we can adjust the contrast ratio.
How big of a issue, is it that LCD monitors have a fixed contrast ratio?
Would it be a better choice, to choose a LCD display with a low contrast ratio such as 500:1?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143932\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, if the software allows you to do this via calibration. But yes, there is independent control over black and white.
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FOLLOW UP
As a follow up to my earlier posted question, I wanted to let everyone know that at last I have made a decision about my monitor. In defense of my tardy pace of decision making it is not all that easy to get actionable information. After speaking to lots of folks, I confess that I relied most upon user information in making my decision: Folks who are fine art reproduction guys. So, this might not be a suitable match for other photographers' pursuits.
I am ordering a EIZO 211 with hood from CHROMIX today. Thanks again for all the exceptional feedback and shared experiences and advice -- as usual.
By the way the Sinarcam 2 works great in the 16-shot mode. My theory is that the Mamiya 645's mirror movement was creating the loss of clarity in the shots.
Thanks again for all your excellent help,
Jerry Reed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
good monitor, as long as your happy with the smallish 1600x1200 size.
personally I'd wait for the 30" model, unless you dont have a machine with dual link video capabiity.
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good monitor, as long as your happy with the smallish 1600x1200 size.
personally I'd wait for the 30" model, unless you dont have a machine with dual link video capabiity.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=144016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I was told that the contrast ratio on the awaited 30 inch model would be closer to the current (newly released in the USA) CG 241, which is 800 to 1. For my work, a contrast ratio closer to what is achievable on canvas as the output medium is preferable. The CG 211 has a contrast ratio of 400:1.
Like you, my interest was being able to use a larger monitor in my application, but the contrast ratio turned out to be the primary consideratiion, with the secondary consideration being the percentage of the ADOBE 1998 color space that might be displayed.
Jerry Reed
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I was told that the contrast ratio on the awaited 30 inch model would be closer to the current (newly released in the USA) CG 241, which is 800 to 1. For my work, a contrast ratio closer to what is achievable on canvas as the output medium is preferable. The CG 211 has a contrast ratio of 400:1.
Like you, my interest was being able to use a larger monitor in my application, but the contrast ratio turned out to be the primary consideratiion, with the secondary consideration being the percentage of the ADOBE 1998 color space that might be displayed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=144020\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You do realize that at least for soft proofing an image, both are way, way too high, there's no printed output that gets close to that contrast ratio.
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I didn't read every reply in this thread, but Eizo has a 30" display.
http://www.eizo.com/press/releases/pdf/CG301W_pr.pdf (http://www.eizo.com/press/releases/pdf/CG301W_pr.pdf)
I've not used it so I can't provide any feedback from personal experience, but if it lives up to its promise, it could be the display that lets you go large as well as have high resolution and good color accuracy.
-Brad
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Rodney:
Wow! This looks like help. What monitor provides a native contrast ratio less than 400:1? I would consider it a great favor to have that information.
Jerry Reed
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Rodney:
Wow! This looks like help. What monitor provides a native contrast ratio less than 400:1? I would consider it a great favor to have that information.
Jerry Reed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=144027\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The point is, contrast ratio is kind of a useless spec for the work we do. 400:1 isn't worse or better than 800:1. These are spec's that are supposed to impress us until we understand the usefulness (or lack thereof) of such specs.
Depending on the software and design of the display, you can alter the ratio. On my NEC 2690, due to its OSD software (SpectraView II), I can calibrate various contrast ratio's by controlling the luminance to black ratio in the software.
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I just want to chime in on the "Best monitor I have ever owned" comments. This really means nothing unless you have used very, very high end monitors in the past. Saying it only means that most likely you have had crappy ones in the past. The models and makes of the monitors owned by the commenters are not super.
I do highly critical color work and manipulation for ads worldwide and cmyk proofing in-house. Across the board, for sheer technical-ness, Eizo is the winner. NEC also makes excellent monitors but their widespread use in the professional (commercial) world in the United States is limited.
In the end, it's up to what you find most important given the specs, size and your personal budget but some of the recommendations here are just "I have this and it's awesome!"......worthless. I'd recommend a lot of things I don't have but really are worth recommending. I don't OWN an Eizo, but I will at my next system upgrade. Stay on the professional level monitors if you really care. Just because monitors by X are very nice, doesn't mean they are all on the same level.
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some new stuff - 30" by gateway with HD connectors, so you can double it as a blu-ray disc player, if you want your big screen to do double duty as a high quality playback monitor
http://www.dailytech.com/Gateway+Reveals+H...article9166.htm (http://www.dailytech.com/Gateway+Reveals+Highresolution+30+Display/article9166.htm)
and it seems the first 30" panels that DON'T need dula link connectors, but work from the new Display Port standard are appearing too:
http://www.dailytech.com/Samsung+Readies+3...article8188.htm (http://www.dailytech.com/Samsung+Readies+30inch+DisplayPort+LCD+Panel/article8188.htm)
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FOLLOW UP
As a follow up to my earlier posted question, I wanted to let everyone know that at last I have made a decision about my monitor. In defense of my tardy pace of decision making it is not all that easy to get actionable information. After speaking to lots of folks, I confess that I relied most upon user information in making my decision: Folks who are fine art reproduction guys. So, this might not be a suitable match for other photographers' pursuits.
I am ordering a EIZO 211 with hood from CHROMIX today. Thanks again for all the exceptional feedback and shared experiences and advice -- as usual.
By the way the Sinarcam 2 works great in the 16-shot mode. My theory is that the Mamiya 645's mirror movement was creating the loss of clarity in the shots.
Thanks again for all your excellent help,
Jerry Reed
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=143974\")
Take a look at this link:
[a href=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Y6z3pc-I8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05Y6z3pc-I8[/url]
We got the CG241W last month. It has a min. black point of 0.11cd/m2
We have compared the CG241W to the Adobe 98 color-space and it does have a closer match than the CG211. The CG is considerably brighter as well, and we need the extra brightness because of our work environment (daylight photo-studios). If you are working in a dark room, I think you will be fine with the CG211.
Best,
Esben
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And another vote for the NEC 2690.
We had the GM Eye-One Pro, so we bought the display only and added the Spectraview software download from NM-Select.com.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=115874\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In the US the price difference for the spectraview option is 200 USD. In Germany it is 700 EUR and you don´t get the messuring instrument, only the hood and the software.
So what´s the difference with the spectraview software? Can I buy a Basic Color licence for EUR 100,- or use the free EyeOneDisplay software with my EyeOneDisplay and get the same results? Or does spectraview some hardware tuning I otherwise couldn`t do?
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I have to weigh in for the HP 3065 as well. I just replaced dual 24" samsungs with dual 30" HP 3065's (about $3K for the two with a 8800 Ultra card).
Bright, good contrast 5000x1600.
first time you can do real side-side or 100% and see the sceen. Great for some composites and just enjoyable viewing.
I use dye sub and lab, and this is the first time I can see something as satisfying as a 20x30 lab print.
Victor
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NEC 2690WUXi: Best price in Germany should be from www.tftshop.net, you need also the Gretag Macbeth EyeOne. And you need the US version of Spectraview to calibrate the monitor.
This NEC is not a handpicked pro-monitor, but it has the best value for the money.
Test (in german) http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2007/...cd2690wuxi.html (http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2007/test-nec-lcd2690wuxi.html)
There are also two loooong threads in the forum about profiling the monitor.
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NEC 2690WUXi: Best price in Germany should be from www.tftshop.net, you need also the Gretag Macbeth EyeOne. And you need the US version of Spectraview to calibrate the monitor.
This NEC is not a handpicked pro-monitor, but it has the best value for the money.
Test (in german) http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2007/...cd2690wuxi.html (http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2007/test-nec-lcd2690wuxi.html)
There are also two loooong threads in the forum about profiling the monitor.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=145018\")
NM-Select.com seems not to exist anymore ...
but I found a direct link:
[a href=\"http://store.necdisplay.com/searchresults.asp?search_id=12]http://store.necdisplay.com/searchresults.asp?search_id=12[/url]
... which has some difficulties either ...
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Promotion from Lacie:
LaCie 526 Monitor + LaCie blue eye pro colorimeter
http://www.lacie.com/more/?id=10046 (http://www.lacie.com/more/?id=10046)
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Promotion from Lacie:
LaCie 526 Monitor + LaCie blue eye pro colorimeter
http://www.lacie.com/more/?id=10046 (http://www.lacie.com/more/?id=10046)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145498\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
1920x1200 is just not enough for MFDB files, in my opinion. The situation is improved for portrait orientations if the screen can be rotated 90 degrees but it doesn't seem that this one can.
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Here's a thought about "portrait" orientation: Many (nearly all?) monitors have a standard VESA 100mm mounting for the panel. That is, you can remove the panel from the base, and attach it to a different monitor support that conforms to the VESA standard. Might there be some third-party monitor arm that supports pivoting the panel, that one of the preferred panels discussed in this thread could be mounted to?
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I was thinking of buying in the USA this NEC monitor, but this thread got my attention.
Do I really need to buy the EyeOne in order to calibrate this monitor? Or the Spectraview?
I have the Monaco X-Rite and it does a great job profiling my 2 LCD monitors. A Samsung 204T and a 19" Dell Ultrasharp.
That would be a real bummer! No go.
Thanks
Eduardo
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NEC 2690WUXi: Best price in Germany should be from www.tftshop.net, you need also the Gretag Macbeth EyeOne. And you need the US version of Spectraview to calibrate the monitor.
This NEC is not a handpicked pro-monitor, but it has the best value for the money.
Test (in german) http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2007/...cd2690wuxi.html (http://www.prad.de/new/monitore/test/2007/test-nec-lcd2690wuxi.html)
There are also two loooong threads in the forum about profiling the monitor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145018\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Do I really need to buy the EyeOne in order to calibrate this monitor? Or the Spectraview?
I have the Monaco X-Rite and it does a great job profiling my 2 LCD monitors
SpectraView II supports the following color sensors:
* NEC iOne Display V2
* NEC iOne Display V2 WG
* GretagMacbeth iOne Pro and iOne Monitor
* GretagMacbeth iOne Display V1 and V2
* Gretag Spectrolino (via RS232)
* X-Rite DTP94 / MonacoOPTIX-XR
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I have a dual arm Ergotron monitor solution that I really like. The only bummer is I can't mount my 30" to it because it's too heavy.
It does a great job on 20 & 23/24" monitors though.
-Jason
Here's a thought about "portrait" orientation: Many (nearly all?) monitors have a standard VESA 100mm mounting for the panel. That is, you can remove the panel from the base, and attach it to a different monitor support that conforms to the VESA standard. Might there be some third-party monitor arm that supports pivoting the panel, that one of the preferred panels discussed in this thread could be mounted to?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145550\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Another vote for the NEC 2690 - with the Spectraview option - a dream to callibrate.
What surprise me abut mine was that within about 15 minutes I'm thinking - this is a nice size, how could I have worked previously on the postage stamp sized 19"?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=114697\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I got this one too, its fantastic.
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I read this thread with interest, as I'm looking to purchase my first LCD display in the near future (currently running a 21" CRT). I'm not considering 30" displays though, too big for my desk. I hadn't read about the NEC 2690; it looks tempting, especially for the price. However I think I'm probably going to go with the Eizo CG241W, even though it will stretch my budget a bit more than I was planning. The main reason is that I think the 24" model will be a better fit for the 1900x1200 resolution, given my workspace and viewing distance. I'm worried the NEC might be a little too big for its resolution. The Eizo also looks to have a slightly larger gamut and slightly better blacks according to the specs. I'm sure the upcoming 30" Eizo will be really nice, but probably well beyond my budget.
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