Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: Alan Klein on November 30, 2020, 08:58:09 am
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Certain countries have greater restrictions on street photography than others. France now wants to impose restrictions on taking photos of police. What is appropriate? Should officials like police be protected? Civilians? How has this affected your photography especially when you travel? Do you take precautions when shooting?
Uproar in France over proposed limits on filming police
https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-police-paris-france-police-brutality-5bd3fbcaa92dcd7658f5047d03d89f56
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Aren't there some states that have outlawed the taking of pictures on livestock farms? I've assumed that it's to avoid groups like PETA or the press getting embarrassing photos of how those places treat animals. Those locations are private property, but it seems to me that it's problematic to use that as cover for potentially criminal behaviour. Imagine the implications "for profit" prisons. Do we stop reporters from trying to get pictures of illegal grow-ops when they are on private property?
In the case of France and the filming of police, it makes me nervous to give police protections that ordinary citizens don't also have, considering how much power the police also have. Isn't it a bit like setting things up to fail.
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Aren't there some states that have outlawed the taking of pictures on livestock farms? I've assumed that it's to avoid groups like PETA or the press getting embarrassing photos of how those places treat animals. Those locations are private property, but it seems to me that it's problematic to use that as cover for potentially criminal behaviour. Imagine the implications "for profit" prisons. Do we stop reporters from trying to get pictures of illegal grow-ops when they are on private property?
In the case of France and the filming of police, it makes me nervous to give police protections that ordinary citizens don't also have, considering how much power the police also have. Isn't it a bit like setting things up to fail.
Not too long ago, there were rules in the USA against photographing cops. But the Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional. But many countries appear to allow more restrictions. How does it affect your photography when you travel? How is it your country? Has it restricted your street photography in general as some countries don't even allow you to shoot civilians, even in public areas?
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Speaking personally this issue doesn't affect me much or at all. I haven't been travelling this year anyway, but even when I do I don't take pics at riots, demonstrations or crime scenes anyway. The kinds of photographic restrictions you've brought up probably apply mostly to the press and "citizen journalists." Also, I don't really do any street photography of people so I'm not likely to break anyone's laws. I might keep it in the back of my mind but it's equally likely that it would completely slip my mind while I'm touristing.
If I ever happened to take a pic in which there was a person and they noticed and asked me to respect their privacy and delete the photo, I would delete it. This is just out of personal courtesy for others, the law would not enter into it. That is to say, the law of the land may state that I have the right to take any picture I want to in public areas, but that doesn't mean that I am ok with invading people's privacy against their wishes. It's not like I'm a member of the press corps taking editorial pictures of newsworthy value.
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Aren't there some states that have outlawed the taking of pictures on livestock farms? I've assumed that it's to avoid groups like PETA or the press getting embarrassing photos of how those places treat animals. Those locations are private property, but it seems to me that it's problematic to use that as cover for potentially criminal behaviour. Imagine the implications "for profit" prisons. Do we stop reporters from trying to get pictures of illegal grow-ops when they are on private property?
In the case of France and the filming of police, it makes me nervous to give police protections that ordinary citizens don't also have, considering how much power the police also have. Isn't it a bit like setting things up to fail.
Not too long ago, there were rules in the USA against photographing cops. But the Supreme Court said that was unconstitutional. But many countries appear to allow more restrictions. How does it affect your photography when you travel?
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Certain countries have greater restrictions on street photography than others. France now wants to impose restrictions on taking photos of police. What is appropriate? Should officials like police be protected? Civilians? How has this affected your photography especially when you travel? Do you take precautions when shooting?
Uproar in France over proposed limits on filming police
https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-police-paris-france-police-brutality-5bd3fbcaa92dcd7658f5047d03d89f56
Police in France are afraid of this sort of thing:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/30/french-police-charged-beating-black-music-producer-michel-zecler
I avoid taking photos of uniformed persons when I travel unless I am pretty certain of the situation. I have quite a few shots of police in France, but all taken in non-threatening situations. In some countries police deliberately target photographers during demonstrations.
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doesn't the law read differently in France ? i recall that there is not a presumption of innocence like in the US when a person is charged with a crime.
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doesn't the law read differently in France ? i recall that there is not a presumption of innocence like in the US when a person is charged with a crime.
No - I've heard this before but it's nonsense.
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Every country and culture is different so I just respect the laws or culture of the country. I can light up a doobie in Canada today, but not in many states...just follow the rules and everything will be fine.
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Every country and culture is different so I just respect the laws or culture of the country. I can light up a doobie in Canada today, but not in many states...just follow the rules and everything will be fine.
Who looks up rules when you're on vacation. If I'm in Europe hitting a few countries, do I have to worry about shooting scenes and people as a tourist? What about Asia?
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Who looks up rules when you're on vacation. If I'm in Europe hitting a few countries, do I have to worry about shooting scenes and people as a tourist? What about Asia?
You might be wise to know the rules, cultures and customs of the countries you visit and not act like you do in America. I know in Morroco you might end up with a bloody nose if you try and sneak some photos of people.
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You might be wise to know the rules, cultures and customs of the countries you visit and not act like you do in America. I know in Morroco you might end up with a bloody nose if you try and sneak some photos of people.
I just crossed Morocco off my travel list. Any others? :)
Someone was saying you can get away with more if you're shooting with a cellphone. True?
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I just crossed Morocco off my travel list. Any others? :)
Someone was saying you can get away with more if you're shooting with a cellphone. True?
I never try to sneak a photo of anyone. I let them know my intentions and if they are comfortable, I'll take the photo. I believe the saying "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". How would you like it if some Chinese tourists sneaked up to you and started taking photos when you and your family were out at the beach relaxing?
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How would you like it if some Chinese tourists sneaked up to you and started taking photos when you and your family were out at the beach relaxing?
I wouldn't care that much, to be honest, but it's clearly a good idea to pay attention to local customs. In most situations you'll quickly get an idea of what is reasonable and if you act sensibly you shouldn't get into serious trouble.
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Aren't there some states that have outlawed the taking of pictures on livestock farms? I've assumed that it's to avoid groups like PETA or the press getting embarrassing photos of how those places treat animals. Those locations are private property, but it seems to me that it's problematic to use that as cover for potentially criminal behaviour. Imagine the implications "for profit" prisons. Do we stop reporters from trying to get pictures of illegal grow-ops when they are on private property?
Robert, if a state came up with a rule outlawing pictures on livestock farms, the Supreme Court would shoot it down is a heartbeat, just as they did with the rule about shooting pictures of cops. If you step onto somebody else's property and start shooting you may find yourself in trouble, but as long as you're in a public place you're free to shoot at your own discretion. There are a few no-no's. One obvious one would be standing on a sidewalk and shooting somebody in her shower through the window. There are others associated with things like copyright. But generally, if you're in a public place you're home free. What you can't do is shoot pictures of people and sell them for advertising. You need a model release for that.
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From what I read, the intention of the new regulations or laws regarding
shooting photographing police was to prevent identification by face. For the same reason that many special forces wear balaclavas - to prevent revenge on the individual police or their families.
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Robert, if a state came up with a rule outlawing pictures on livestock farms, the Supreme Court would shoot it down is a heartbeat, just as they did with the rule about shooting pictures of cops. If you step onto somebody else's property and start shooting you may find yourself in trouble, but as long as you're in a public place you're free to shoot at your own discretion. There are a few no-no's. One obvious one would be standing on a sidewalk and shooting somebody in her shower through the window. There are others associated with things like copyright. But generally, if you're in a public place you're home free. What you can't do is shoot pictures of people and sell them for advertising. You need a model release for that.
Several years ago, I was walking on the Ocean Blvd from Sunny Isles to Hallandale, and during my stroll on the sidewalk I took a picture of an interesting house gate across the street. I should say that there are hardly any people walking on that street, so a lonely walker with a camera must have been suspicious. A few minutes after I snapped the picture, a cop in a marked car caught up with me, and said that they received a complaint I violated someone's privacy shooting through their window. The cop didn't make me to delete the image but ordered me to put the camera away.
As to shooting individual persons or a group in a public space, while such photo can't be used without a model release for any advertising, it still can be used for editorial purposes.
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Robert, if a state came up with a rule outlawing pictures on livestock farms, the Supreme Court would shoot it down is a heartbeat, just as they did with the rule about shooting pictures of cops. If you step onto somebody else's property and start shooting you may find yourself in trouble, but as long as you're in a public place you're free to shoot at your own discretion. There are a few no-no's. One obvious one would be standing on a sidewalk and shooting somebody in her shower through the window. There are others associated with things like copyright. But generally, if you're in a public place you're home free. What you can't do is shoot pictures of people and sell them for advertising. You need a model release for that.
Seems you are right, https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/11/18176551/ag-gag-laws-factory-farms-explained (https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/11/18176551/ag-gag-laws-factory-farms-explained).
But while I was googling I found out that the province of Ontario is trying this on too, https://animaljustice.ca/media-releases/new-ontario-bill-would-make-it-illegal-to-expose-animal-cruelty-on-farms-transport-trucks (https://animaljustice.ca/media-releases/new-ontario-bill-would-make-it-illegal-to-expose-animal-cruelty-on-farms-transport-trucks). Wonder where this will end up.
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shooting photographing police .
Reminds me of a time I had a photo shoot at the Houses of Parliament. I didn't know where exactly to go so I had to ask the armed cops on guard. I vey nearly made the mistake of phrasing my request in a way that could have had unwanted consequences :-)
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Right, Robert. As a reporter you can get away with a lot of stuff. But here's the story in the U.S. Bert Krages is an attorney and a photographer.
http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm
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Right, Robert. As a reporter you can get away with a lot of stuff. But here's the story in the U.S. Bert Krages is an attorney and a photographer.
http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm
I get it that an industry doesn't want the press to come snooping. But to actually convince a legislature to make it specifically illegal raises the bar. I wonder how many legislators you have to buy to accomplish that and what it costs. :)
I mean, even if they were as pure as the driven snow, the instant they lobby to create laws like these, they kind of draw attention to themselves, and not in a good way. Might have been better to invite the reporters in. Anyway sorry, this is a little off topic.