Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: bwana on October 18, 2019, 11:51:46 pm
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Although the fuji has ~10% more pixels, it's sensor area is larger. I assume that translates to larger photosites. Has anyone here viewed the same image taken with both devices? I read this review
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-gfx-50r-review/5
but it is rather clinical. Some of the images I've downloaded (raws) of the 50r do have a smoothness about them (and I'm not talking about the shallow depth of field leading to out of focus patches). OTOH, I have seen people now doing focus stacking for landscapes (since the D850/z7 make it so easy) and that's a trick the fuji cannot do. It makes me wonder why Fuji even released the 50s/50r models?
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The Fujifilm 50R does support focus stacking. And according to Jim Kason even a bit better that the Nikon implementation.
I have quite some experience with the focus stacking for landscapes, on the Fujifilm 50S. Which uses the same implementation as the 50R. It works really great once you get the hang of it.
I went from a Nikon D810 to the GFX and I am thrilled with the IQ. I did quite some extensive side-by-side testing for more than a week. And despite what some "testers" are stating, there is a distinctive difference in IQ. Whether the difference is large enough for jumping to the GFX is a personal matter of course. What some say is a large difference is a small one to others.
Fujifilm in the Netherlands was so kind to let me try-out the GFX for more than a week. I would suggest you try-out the system for yourself to see if it is worth it.
The main reason for me to go for the 50S instead of the 50R were ergonomics and the tilting viewfinder.
If you decide to test the system out, I am happy to provide you with advice how to let the focus stacking work for you.
Good luck with your decision!
Cheers,
Remko
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The D810 is 36MP, the D850/Z7 are 46MP; Surely the image quality difference with the Fuji will be less with the Z7.
Both systems have good native lenses; On the Z all F nikkors can be used. In the future i hope the lenses made for Sony are to be used on the Z too, but not yet.
Also i still hope for a TS converter for the Z so you could use Fuji lenses or other MF lenses as a TS lens on the Z.
For me the megapixel race is over; I am able to do a perfect 120cm print from a Z7/D850 file - or i will stitch. Good lenses are key.
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The Fujifilm 50R does support focus stacking. And according to Jim Kason even a bit better that the Nikon implementation.
It sure does and does it very well. I suggest the OP does some more research.
Victor
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The D810 is 36MP, the D850/Z7 are 46MP; Surely the image quality difference with the Fuji will be less with the Z7.
Both systems have good native lenses; On the Z all F nikkors can be used. In the future i hope the lenses made for Sony are to be used on the Z too, but not yet.
Also i still hope for a TS converter for the Z so you could use Fuji lenses or other MF lenses as a TS lens on the Z.
For me the megapixel race is over; I am able to do a perfect 120cm print from a Z7/D850 file - or i will stitch. Good lenses are key.
There are a number of people, Kers, who went back to the D810 as the IQ on the D850 was less due to the increase of the number of megapixels. Nikon has produced an article where it states that the contrast on the pixel level is less with the D850 due to the smaller pixels. Which is of course true - also for the new Fujifilm GFX100 or any other camara where the number of megapixels is increased and the size of the sensor remains the same.
Beside this, IQ is not so much about the number of megapixels! Certainly not when the difference is that small. It is about a more life like image, better colors, smoother transitions, a more three dimensional image. And that difference is even a bit bigger between the D850 vs GFX50 than between the D810 vs the GFX50.
cheers,
Remko
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It makes me wonder why Fuji even released the 50s/50r models?
I have the gfx 50s. It is an incredible camera. I don’t find any need to focus stack landscapes with this camera.
Sharon
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thank you all for your replies. yes i did not know that focus stacking was added in the firmware recently. Mr. Kasson has a nice article about it actually
https://blog.kasson.com/gfx-50s/gfx-fw-3-0-focus-bracketing-with-the-120-4-macro/
@remko-this is what i was getting at-the qualitative impact. i shoot w a d810 and properly good lenses make a great impact. but i find this statement intriguing
"It is about a more life like image, better colors, smoother transitions, a more three dimensional image. And that difference is even a bit bigger between the D850 vs GFX50 than between the D810 vs the GFX50."
I have not used a d850 but could misinterpret your statement to mean that the 850 produces a flatter image than the 810. Not something I have heard before.
I find the evf invaluable and use live view w a cine viewfinder hood over the lcd. i want to eliminate that by going mirrorless.
i need to rent a gfx. prob w the 45mm or the 32-64 zoom. OTOH, carrying the fuji kit while hiking will require tripod deployment for every image-whereas the z7 ibis is intriguing in reducing this requirement. and if the 28 f1.8 s nikkor is as good as the 50 is reported to be, then i might not need to use the zeiss 28mm f2.
With good light, a tripod, mirror up and minimum iso, the 810 can produce those 3d like images-but it takes time.
I do landscape as well as travel but like to print large~up to 19" on the short dimension.
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Hi,
The aspect ratio may play in Fuji's favor. The GFX 50 has more vertical pixels than Nikon/Sony. So if your subjects are more square than 24x36 the GFX 50 will have a healthy advantage.
It also seems that the Fuji GF lenses are as good as lenses get. I don't think most Nikon lenses are similarly well corrected. It may be that 24x36 mm vendors have other preferences than corner to corner unaberrated image. The may consider high apertures more important?
Jim Kasson (https://blog.kasson.com/) has done a lot of good reporting on lenses from Fujifilm, Nikon, Sony, Zeiss and Voigtlander.
Having a larger sensor gives a small advantage in noise/DR/high ISO, think shooting 170 ISO instead of 100 with the same image quality.
Best regards
Erik
Although the fuji has ~10% more pixels, it's sensor area is larger. I assume that translates to larger photosites. Has anyone here viewed the same image taken with both devices? I read this review
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-gfx-50r-review/5
but it is rather clinical. Some of the images I've downloaded (raws) of the 50r do have a smoothness about them (and I'm not talking about the shallow depth of field leading to out of focus patches). OTOH, I have seen people now doing focus stacking for landscapes (since the D850/z7 make it so easy) and that's a trick the fuji cannot do. It makes me wonder why Fuji even released the 50s/50r models?
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There are a number of people, Kers, who went back to the D810 as the IQ on the D850 was less due to the increase of the number of megapixels. Nikon has produced an article where it states that the contrast on the pixel level is less with the D850 due to the smaller pixels. Which is of course true - also for the new Fujifilm GFX100 or any other camara where the number of megapixels is increased and the size of the sensor remains the same.
I would strongly disagree with this.
The D810 was great and the D850/Z7 is just as great, but with more pixels and better colors.
Owning both a Z7 (former D850) and a GFx100, I would personally not go for the GFX50. I find the available Z lenses to be superior to the Fuji ones while being much more compact and the AF of the GFX50 is clearly far behind.
The recently released 24mm f1.8S, 50mm f1.8S and 85mm f1.8S are particularly stunning and so is the 24-70mm f2.8S.
Don't get me wrong, the GFX lenses are splendid, but IMHO they are not as good as the Nikon ones.
I still happily shoot with the GFX100 thanks to its higher resolution, but boy is the Z7 + S lenses a sweet system.
Cheers,
Bernard
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There are a number of people, Kers, who went back to the D810 as the IQ on the D850 was less due to the increase of the number of megapixels. Nikon has produced an article where it states that the contrast on the pixel level is less with the D850 due to the smaller pixels.
cheers,
Remko
Hai Remko,
I have both the d810 and the D850- use them together sometimes- and they both have high quality and i cannot find much difference in the quality of the files besides the amount of pixels.
In other areas the d850 has a large number of benefits over the d810.
Could you provide me with that Nikon article? It would be an interesting read.
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The D810 was great and the D850/Z7 is just as great, but with more pixels and better colors. (....)
Cheers,
Bernard
Hi Bernard,
You showed us - and I think it was here on LuLa - images taken with your D850. And the colors were impressive - no doubt about that. What some people made regret their decision to trade-in their D810 for a D850 (some even bought back their D810), was e.g. the apparent less dynamic range. Making landscape photos they had to use exposure bracketing more than they liked. There were other things as well related to the IQ if the D850. One of them was the noise level.
For those interested in this, you can read this in the Nikon forum of www.getdpi.com
It looks like that, also from other posts of you, that you were very happy with your D850. All the better! It is of course a very personal matter.
Regarding your remark about the Fujifilm GFX50, did you actually photographed with it? I asked as the sensor is not comparable with the one in the GFX100, due to the special micro lenses on the sensor of the GFX50.
Cheers,
Remko
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Hai Remko,
Could you provide me with that Nikon article? It would be an interesting read.
Hi Kers,
I thought I had read the pdf document in a thread on getdpi.com so went back there to look for it in their Nikon foum. But did not find it. There is a small chance I have it stored at home on my desktop computer. I am abroad now and will return the 3rd week of November and will look for it then. If I find it I will for sure post the link to the document.
Note: Edited a typo
cheers,
Remko
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Regarding your remark about the Fujifilm GFX50, did you actually photographed with it? I asked as the sensor is not comparable with the one in the GFX100, due to the special micro lenses on the sensor of the GFX50.
No, only with the GFX100.
Cheers,
Bernard
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No, only with the GFX100.
Cheers,
Bernard
I appreciate your honesty, Bernard.
I do advice anyone mildly interested in the GFX50 to test the camera for themselves!
I had downloaded images made with the Z7 + Nikon lenses and missed the image qualities the GFX50 delivers. There is - for me - something special about the IQ and certainly how malable the files are. Never experienced that before. So I then bought the GFX50S.
cheers,
Remko
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i think at this point it is all a little silly....i got the fuji 50s when it came out, after testing it vs the X1D and comparing it to the A7RII....ended up getting rid of it because of the A7RIII, still have a RX1RII for high sync speed and after playing with the A7RIV have for now decided against it mostly because 40mpix really are a sweet spot for commercial photography....even 60mpix are difficult to deal with when considering the actual advantage, the gfx100 makes no sense for me, i understand some people need the extra resolution...
there was a rumor that the A9II would have 16 stops dr, 14 stops at 800, 36mpix.....combined with the size and AF that would pretty much be a perfect camera.....it is not, the A7RIV only adds pixels....
i cant go back to DSLR so the D850 is out, the Z7 is a step behind the A7RIII in every way IMO, i prefer sony glass to nikon, just like i prefer fuji GF glass to hasselblad X (although at this point i would look into the X1DII just because it is the only leaf shutter game in town but then again, i cant put up with phocus)....
i guess all these cameras provide insane files, personal preference should make the difference and everybody looks for something slightly different and likes slightly different things....
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The recently released 24mm f1.8S, 50mm f1.8S and 85mm f1.8S are particularly stunning and so is the 24-70mm f2.8S.
Don't get me wrong, the GFX lenses are splendid, but IMHO they are not as good as the Nikon ones.
Could you share with us what it is that makes the Nikon lenses so good in your eyes? What is it that you see that you like so much?
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Could you share with us what it is that makes the Nikon lenses so good in your eyes? What is it that you see that you like so much?
You first have to put those rose coloured glasses on when looking at Nikon...everything comes out golden.
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You first have to put those rose coloured glasses on when looking at Nikon...everything comes out golden.
Why would it? I own both Fuji GFX and Nikon and I love the Fuji system.
Don’t project your own brand centric world on others please.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Could you share with us what it is that makes the Nikon lenses so good in your eyes? What is it that you see that you like so much?
I am speaking about some specific Nikon lenses here.
Time won’t allow me to deep dive, but speaking about the 85mm f1.8 S, and comparing it to the Fuji 110mm f2.0, I prefer the bokeh of the Nikon, it’s CA control is superior as well as it’s micro contrast. The images come out very very nice.
It’s also much cheaper and smaller. Totally incredible value and absolute level of performance.
Now I had the opportunity to shoot a highly ranked official recently and used the GFX100 with 110mm f2.0, because I find the skin colors resulting from the C1 pro profiles for the Fuji a bit better.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Why would it? I own both Fuji GFX and Nikon and I love the Fuji system.
Don’t project your own brand centric world on others please.
Cheers,
Bernard
Just calling it like I see it Bernard. You've been continuously claiming the latest Nikon lenses are all class leading and fabulous...like viewing through rose coloured glasses.
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Just calling it like I see it Bernard. You've been continuously claiming the latest Nikon lenses are all class leading and fabulous...like viewing through rose coloured glasses.
Some are. I have never written they all are.
Some Sony lenses are best in class such as the 135mm f1.8, some aren’t.
I can mount them on my Z7, I just pick the best.
I don’t believe you have similar incentives to drive your objectivity... ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Thanks Bernard,
too bad you don't have the time to elaborate a bit more because nice bokeh, superior CA control as well as micro contrast are typically terms you read in just about every lens-leaflet. And since you sounded so enthusiastic about these lenses, I thought you saw something really special. I just looked at the DPR samples of the 85mm and I guess they're OK lenses for their price, and if you say so, I guess they give a lot of bang for the buck, which is fine of course.
Cheers, Peter
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I'm sure both systems are more than capable: users, less so.
;-)
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Me on the other hand finds the Bokeh of Nikon’s new Z 85mm f/1.8 S ugly. Have look at the DPR site with the sample gallery and the image of the dog with the vase. Very ugly bokeh at the left side on the vase.
In the end I find Fuji’s 110mm f/2 lens much better, including its microcontrast and any residual CA.
Regards,
Jaap.
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Here are a few examples highlighting what I like about the 85mm f1.8 bokeh.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48990669781_e19f27c943_h.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48990863177_f127a44fc6_h.jpg)
Nikon Z7 + 85mm f1.8 S
On the other hand, the following image is with the GFX100 + 110mm f2.0:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48583579436_d3ffc964a8_h.jpg)
Not exactly comparable, and pretty likable too, but I don't find it quite as pleasing.
Having the opportunity to pick between these 2 wonderful lenses is obviously a good problem to have. ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Hi Bernard,
Let me first say: great images!
In all honesty, we can’t compare the bokeh from the last image to the other ones, right? Way too many differences in image content.
In my opinion one could do a judgement between your last image and the one from the dpr site I was referring to, the one with the dog and the vase. Soooo, what do you think?
Regards,
Jaap.
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Hi Bernard,
Let me first say: great images!
In all honesty, we can’t compare the bokeh from the last image to the other ones, right? Way too many differences in image content.
In my opinion one could do a judgement between your last image and the one from the dpr site I was referring to, the one with the dog and the vase. Soooo, what do you think?
Thanks for the kind words. Would you have a link to the dog image? I couldn't find it.
Yes, those are pretty different, but my opinion is made up from the many images shot with both lenses.
In the end, bokeh is to a large extend a matter of personal taste.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Would you have a link to the dog image? I couldn't find it.
Sure Bernard,
Here is the link:
https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/7176467501/nikon-z-85mm-f1-8-s-sample-gallery/7391663892
Regards,
Jaap.
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Here is the link:
https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/7176467501/nikon-z-85mm-f1-8-s-sample-gallery/7391663892
I personally love it. It is exactly the kind of bokeh I like best.
- The transition from sharp to blurry is smooth
- The blurred background has no sharp edges
- I don't see any LOCA in the blurred areas
- The OOF highlight have nearly no ghosting (only slightly visible at 100%)
- There is no patterns/texture in the OOF highlights
Cheers,
Bernard
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That’s strange. I have no doubts that you’ll have a keen eye on image quality. With reference to the attached partial image, don’t you have problems with these aspects? Particularly this I find ugly.
I find these kind of aspects better on the GFX100 + 110mm f2.0.
Regards,
Jaap.
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That’s strange. I have no doubts that you’ll have a keen eye on image quality. With reference to the attached partial image, don’t you have problems with these aspects? Particularly this I find ugly.
I find these kind of aspects better on the GFX100 + 110mm f2.0.
Regards,
Jaap.
The cat eye shape is the part you don’t like?
It’s true that they have a more round shape on the Fuji.
Personally I don’t mind this aspect, but I can understand.
Cheers,
Bernard
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That’s strange. I have no doubts that you’ll have a keen eye on image quality. With reference to the attached partial image, don’t you have problems with these aspects? Particularly this I find ugly.
I find these kind of aspects better on the GFX100 + 110mm f2.0.
Regards,
Jaap.
I find that out of focus foreground extremely distracting...not something I would call nice. Don't know if it would look better with another lens...might be just the distance from the lens and nothing can be done about it...but it is ugly.
Other conditions that cause problems is detailed foliage which many lenses struggle. The distance from lens to out of focus area really makes a big difference...so when comparing lenses, one really needs to have exact same location for all lenses or all bets are off.