Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Mark Lindquist on November 30, 2016, 07:54:42 pm
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Thanks to Barry685 for his link to ProImaging, I just bought a SHINY NEW HP DesignJet Z3200ps 44" printer.
ProImaging Has them for $2,995.00 with FREE SHIPPING (http://www.proimagingsupplies.com/Hewlett-Packard-DesignJet-Z3200ps-44in-Printer-p3420.html)
The site shows the printer as a Q6721A, but I called and checked and was told they are all "B" models.
Indeed, when the final invoice came through, it said Q6721B
I am putting my money where my mouth is. This is the 4th printer our business has.
This is an unbeatable price. Thanks very much for the link Barry685.
Whatever HP has in mind for this printer, which apparently seems to have an uncertain future, I am insuring that we're good to go for several more years.
This price is incredible. If you have been sitting on the fence about this printer... just saying.
And nope - I have NO affiliation with the company or anyone who works there, etc.
-Mark
EDIT - Free Shipping if you have a loading dock or forklift.
Delivery with lift gate is $90 extra for lift gate.
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Are you shure you did not buy this :) ?
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Are you shure you did not by this :) ?
Yes Kers, I'm sure. ::)
Here it is:
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Pity it's so hard to move printers from the US.
The same thing costs 4 times aa much in Australia.
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So how many Z printers do you now have Mark? Seems awfully tempting.
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I'm not quite sure what the advantages of the HP printers are compared to Canon or Epson but right now Atlex is running a special deal on the Canon Pro 4000 that is compelling. With rebates the price of the printer drops to $3496 and then they are giving you a free set of 160 ml inks. They are claiming the ink is worth $1164 which I suppose is true but the 330ml are about 14% cheaper so maybe it is really $1000 of free ink. That still makes it by far and away the best price on a 44" wide printer I have ever seen.
http://www.atlex.com/canon-imageprograf-pro-4000-printer-44-wide-format-1.html?utm_source=ATX+December+Canon+Pro4000+Deal&utm_campaign=Pro-4000+Ink+Rebate+Atlex&utm_medium=email
It looks like this deal is available through December 15th. If I didn't already have a full set of unused inks and an extra print head for my iPF8400 I would buy this in a second. Hell, I may buy it and stick it in storage for a year or two LOL. I imagine the other vendors have similar pricing right now.
FWIW
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I'm not quite sure what the advantages of the HP printers are compared to Canon or Epson but right now Atlex is running a special deal on the Canon Pro 4000 that is compelling. With rebates the price of the printer drops to $3496 and then they are giving you a free set of 160 ml inks. They are claiming the ink is worth $1164 which I suppose is true but the 330ml are about 14% cheaper so maybe it is really $1000 of free ink. That still makes it by far and away the best price on a 44" wide printer I have ever seen.
http://www.atlex.com/canon-imageprograf-pro-4000-printer-44-wide-format-1.html?utm_source=ATX+December+Canon+Pro4000+Deal&utm_campaign=Pro-4000+Ink+Rebate+Atlex&utm_medium=email
It looks like this deal is available through December 15th. If I didn't already have a full set of unused inks and an extra print head for my iPF8400 I would buy this in a second. Hell, I may buy it and stick it in storage for a year or two LOL. I imagine the other vendors have similar pricing right now.
FWIW
That looks like a pretty good deal if you want Canon.
Apples and oranges, however. Here's what the HP Z3200ps 44" has that the Canon doesn't:
Standard equipment embedded spectrophotometer to make custom profiles in house.
No extra charge - it is built into the printer. Can make and store 30 custom profiles of 30 different papers.
Infinite number of paper profiles can be made.
Micro-drop technology - you can leave this printer for 2 months or more at a time and it will not clog.
HP Vivera inks - still the leader in many instances on certain papers - 200 yr. longevity.
Reasonably priced replaceable printheads. $70 for a printhead that has 2 color heads.
No problem user replacement.
Extremely efficient ink usage- it's an ink mizer.
Light weight, easily moved, and easily set up.
All in all, theCanon you describe does not have the embedded spectrophotometer.
If you can get one, it would be a $1700. The Canon printhead replacement is $675+
So really not the same machines at all.
Unquestionably, Canon printers are excellent.
We have one in house as well. They are real workhorses.
I will stick with the 4 Z3200ps printers as long as we can continue to run them, however.
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Pity it's so hard to move printers from the US.
The same thing costs 4 times aa much in Australia.
What would it cost to ship one to you?
Is it the taxes and tariffs that are the problem, or simply the weight, bulk and distance?
S12,000 US would be a deal killer for sure.
No way to send it in a container with a moving company somehow or using a broker?
The owner of ProImaging.com , Ted Williams, is a sharp guy - maybe you could get in touch with him.
He just might ship you a printer.
Mark
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So how many Z printers do you now have Mark? Seems awfully tempting.
Actually 4, now, John. My original Z3100 44", a Z3200 24", a Z3200ps, 44", and now this new Z3200ps 44"
Too great a deal to pass up.
Want to be sure HP we're covered if HP decides to stop manufacturing them.
Just never know.
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Hell Mark, you be a real HP fan boy!!!!!!! ;-)
I agree, the built-in spectro is worth atleast $500 if you are talking using a Spyder print, or other profile creating device. Also, once you create a profile, it doesn't change, because you can recalibrate the papers periodically as needed.
The the best part is the reliability of the machine, lack of having to do routine nozzle checks, it's just always ready to do a print!!!!!
Also, the heads seem to last a long time compared to the Canon print heads. What I'm hearing is that Canon heads last about a year and a half, if you use them a lot, or not. They cost something under $500 each, and the machine takes two. Most Canon users keep a spare(you can use it in either slot)
Also, the HP printing algorithm uses a lot of gray ink for gray component removal (The Lt Gray ink is used the most). This means the image will naturally print very neutral in gray areas. Also probably has a lot to do with the nearly linear fade properties of HP prints compared to Epson.
Another tip, is you can buy the 300ml Designjet 772 carts and use them in the machine, just by removing the cap with the chip from the HP70 cart before it is totally empty, and put it on the 772. You do lose the ability to monitor ink levels in that cart. But it's easy to remove the cart and shake it to see about how much ink you have left. Not all Z3200 colors are available, but the much used Lt Gray, both blacks and yellow are! Provantage regularly sells these carts for just over $100@ https://www.provantage.com/service/searchsvcs/Q?SEC=&QUERY=designjet+772&SUBMIT.x=0&SUBMIT.y=0
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My question is - is this not the same printer that came out in 2008? And since hp is not in the wide format printing business any more (as far as I know, I may be wrong) how long will they offer support and parts on an 8 year old printer, even though you are purchasing it new.
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My question is - is this not the same printer that came out in 2008? And since hp is not in the wide format printing business any more (as far as I know, I may be wrong) how long will they offer support and parts on an 8 year old printer, even though you are purchasing it new.
Not in the Wide Format Printing busines, HP?
HP IS in the wide format printing business (http://www.proimagingsupplies.com/HP-c179/)
how long will they offer support and parts on an 8 year old printer? We will just have to see I guess.
There are so many parts out there worldwide I think it would be a really long time before they all dry up.
Having 4 printers that almost all the parts are interchangeable gives me an edge...
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Hell Mark, you be a real HP fan boy!!!!!!! ;-)
I agree, the built-in spectro is worth atleast $500 if you are talking using a Spyder print, or other profile creating device. Also, once you create a profile, it doesn't change, because you can recalibrate the papers periodically as needed.
The the best part is the reliability of the machine, lack of having to do routine nozzle checks, it's just always ready to do a print!!!!!
Also, the heads seem to last a long time compared to the Canon print heads. What I'm hearing is that Canon heads last about a year and a half, if you use them a lot, or not. They cost something under $500 each, and the machine takes two. Most Canon users keep a spare(you can use it in either slot)
Also, the HP printing algorithm uses a lot of gray ink for gray component removal (The Lt Gray ink is used the most). This means the image will naturally print very neutral in gray areas. Also probably has a lot to do with the nearly linear fade properties of HP prints compared to Epson.
Another tip, is you can buy the 300ml Designjet 772 carts and use them in the machine, just by removing the cap with the chip from the HP70 cart before it is totally empty, and put it on the 772. You do lose the ability to monitor ink levels in that cart. But it's easy to remove the cart and shake it to see about how much ink you have left. Not all Z3200 colors are available, but the much used Lt Gray, both blacks and yellow are! Provantage regularly sells these carts for just over $100@ https://www.provantage.com/service/searchsvcs/Q?SEC=&QUERY=designjet+772&SUBMIT.x=0&SUBMIT.y=0
All good points HP fanboy Nollendorfs! ;D
Sounds like you've got what I left out covered.
Hmmmmmm. The ability to read charts at later times, and with various coatings?
For those in the know, the ability to make profiles for other printers?
How about a printer you can actually work on?
Oh and the gloss enhancer, don't want to leave that out.
Versatility, reliability, workability, maneuverability, proven track record, longevity, ease of use.
What more could I want. Don't get me started.
Mark
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I guess I meant I thought they got out of the wide format Art/Photography printers. I know they do a lot with signage and other areas. You're right though, having 4 printers with interchangeable parts is a plus.
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I guess I meant I thought they got out of the wide format Art/Photography printers. I know they do a lot with signage and other areas. You're right though, having 4 printers with interchangeable parts is a plus.
Yes, I understood your original question. As fraught with corporate issues as HP has been, they created this Z series of printers that have spanned nearly if not fully a decade. At the time it rocked Large Format with all the innovations, and literally raised the bar for color technology with their Vivera inks which have stood the test of time since then, being even today in the forefront in some cases. They revolutionized Large Format printing at the time by making a printer that allowed many to work with LF for the first time due to ease of use and reliability. In that time, the only major significant change was to add chromium Red with the Z3200's and software tweaks over the years.
They have stuck with and stood behind their technology with an "if it ain't broke don't fix it policy" that has served them well over the years. No other company has achieved this record of success regarding a printer series based on original design and relatively flawless output.
The Barcelona team that created this marvel created a timeless beauty which will no doubt live on well past the end run production with dedicated users continuing to favor the machines. They can be repaired and worked on like apple pie and Chevrolet of the 50's and 60's. The chief concern when they stop making them will not be parts because so many of these printers have been made, it will be the Vivera Ink, and particularly the colors that are no longer made in the other more recent models using Vivera.
HP has always played their cards very close to the vest. What is going on in the future will be equally earth shattering when it comes out. HP welcomes competition. They are the Large Format giant of the world. That giant only appears to be sleeping. Eventually, a new printer that is unquestionably world class will yet again make its way to the forefront as they will yet again raise the bar in color technology and overall performance. Will it be the Z3300? Doubtful, as they have already created new inks for the future that test better than Vivera.
The Z Series is like a classic car. They will move on past it someday. As long as I can find printheads and inks, I won't. (As in never say never.)
To say that HP got out of LF printers is so far off the mark. They just continue to sell, sell, sell the Z3200ps printers and laugh all the way to the bank. They are just quiet about it right now.
Mark
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Well said. Anyways I'm glad you got a new Z to add to the pack.
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That looks like a pretty good deal if you want Canon.
Apples and oranges, however. Here's what the HP Z3200ps 44" has that the Canon doesn't:
Standard equipment embedded spectrophotometer to make custom profiles in house.
No extra charge - it is built into the printer. Can make and store 30 custom profiles of 30 different papers.
Infinite number of paper profiles can be made.
Micro-drop technology - you can leave this printer for 2 months or more at a time and it will not clog.
HP Vivera inks - still the leader in many instances on certain papers - 200 yr. longevity.
Reasonably priced replaceable printheads. $70 for a printhead that has 2 color heads.
No problem user replacement.
Extremely efficient ink usage- it's an ink mizer.
Light weight, easily moved, and easily set up.
All in all, theCanon you describe does not have the embedded spectrophotometer.
If you can get one, it would be a $1700. The Canon printhead replacement is $675+
So really not the same machines at all.
Unquestionably, Canon printers are excellent.
We have one in house as well. They are real workhorses.
I will stick with the 4 Z3200ps printers as long as we can continue to run them, however.
I agree that the Canon printheads on the iPFx400 series are the real Achilles heal of the printer. Expensive and not very long lasting. I guess only time with tell if the Pro-4000 and Pro-2000 heads turn out to be any better.
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My question is - is this not the same printer that came out in 2008? And since hp is not in the wide format printing business any more (as far as I know, I may be wrong) how long will they offer support and parts on an 8 year old printer, even though you are purchasing it new.
The Z3200 model is a tiny twig on the huge HP wide format printers tree. It shares several components, inks, spindels, with other models.
If it gets anywhere near the DesignJet 5500 lifespan there is at least another decade future for it.
Mark made a very nice deal if I compare it to new and secondhand prices in the EU.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Congratulations on your amazing deal. In the UK not long ago I paid almost this amount for a five year old Z3200PS (with which I'm delighted). I saw your comment "For those in the know, the ability to make profiles for other printers?" I'm intrigued .. Wonder if you could elaborate? Thanks. NJ
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Actually Ernst Dinkla and Geraldo Garcia, possibly John Dean are the experts with this.
Basically a target that the HP can read is printed by another printer on the substrate to be profiled and used by that other printer. That printed target from the other printer is fed into the Z Series printer and read by the ESP. It makes a profile for the paper that can then be used by the other printer.
It's just that it puts the other printer's ICC profile in the Z series list.
There are a few tricks such as choosing the specific target to be printed, etc., etc., however it works great. I wish either Ernst or Carlos would do a tutorial.
You can experiment with. Your printer using the color center. Look at the alternatives for printing a target then waiting to reload the paper and creating a profile at a later time.
Hopefully others who do this will elaborate.
EDIT:
Here are instructions from HP about making profiles - some great info included if you read it:
Create your own profile
You can create a color profile easily by using the HP Color Center: select Paper Preset Management > Profile Paper. The printer helps you by prompting for information about the paper, then creates and installs the new profile automatically.
The process takes about 15–20 minutes and consists of the following steps.
A profiling chart is printed, which contains patches of each ink used in your printer. Unlike a calibration chart, most of the patches contain combinations of more than one ink.
The printer chooses automatically between two profile charts:
An A3 or B format for cut sheets
2: Profiling chart (A3)
A roll-paper format that minimizes paper use by printing across the full width of the roll
3: Profiling chart (roll)
The chart is allowed to dry for a period of time that depends on the paper type, so that the colors have time to stabilize.
If you would like to use a longer drying time, you can ask the HP Color Center to create the chart without going on to create a profile (Windows: Print target only; Mac OS: Print ICC profiling chart). Then, later, when the chart is completely dry, you can restart the HP Color Center and ask it to create a profile using the chart you have already created (Windows: Create ICC profile from a target that has already been printed; Mac OS: Scan ICC profiling chart and create ICC profile). In this case the spectrophotometer takes a while to warm up before it is ready to scan.
The chart is scanned and measured using the HP Embedded Spectrophotometer.
Chart measurement may not be successful if you load the chart as a single sheet without skew check.
From the measurements made by the spectrophotometer, the printer calculates the ICC profile for your printer, inks and paper type.
The new ICC profile is stored in the correct system folder on your computer, where your application programs can find it.
The profile is also stored in the printer, so that other computers connected to the same printer can copy it. The HP Printer Utility will notify you if your printer has profiles that are not yet stored on your computer.
Some applications may need to be closed and restarted in order to use a profile that has just been created.
You can profile a photo paper with the gloss enhancer on or off. The two profiles will be different, so you are recommended to save them under different names.
Color measurement
You can also create a color profile by using a third-party profiling program and the Color Measurement facility. To begin Color Measurement:
Using the HP Printer Utility for Windows, select Color Center > Paper Preset Management > Color Measurement.
Using the HP Printer Utility for Mac OS, select HP Color Center > Paper Preset Management. Select the paper type, then press the button and select Color Measurement from the popup menu.
Continue with the following steps.
Choose the workflow that you want to use from the following options:
Print and measure a color chart performs printing and measurement in a single process. You can choose whether to use gloss enhancer and how much drying time to allow.
Print a color chart for later measurement assumes that you will measure the printed chart at some later time to complete the process. You can choose whether to use gloss enhancer.
Measure a previously printed color chart completes the process if you have a color chart ready for measurement. Load the chart in the correct direction as indicated by the arrows, loading multiple pages in the correct order, and do not cut the paper.
Export a color chart as a TIFF for printing externally allows you to use a different program (a RIP, for example) to print the color chart. Do not modify the TIFF file in any way before printing it. The printed chart should be exactly the correct size; the simplest way to achieve this is to print it on a paper size larger than the chart and then cut the paper after printing as indicated by the crop marks.
If printing a chart, select one of the available charts.
If measuring a chart, select the characteristics of the measurements file: what sort of information it should contain (CGATS and MonacoPROFILER formats are supported), and where the file should be saved.
Chart measurement may not be successful if you load the chart as a single sheet without skew check.
Open the measurements file with your profiling program.
The printer's spectrophotometer measures from 400 to 700 nm in steps of 20 nm. All other measurement types are interpolated.
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The Z3200 model is a tiny twig on the huge HP wide format printers tree. It shares several components, inks, spindels, with other models.
If it gets anywhere near the DesignJet 5500 lifespan there is at least another decade future for it.
Mark made a very nice deal if I compare it to new and secondhand prices in the EU.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
How long has the 5500 been available since it first came out Ernst?
If it gets anywhere near the DesignJet 5500 lifespan there is at least another decade future for it.
We can only hope. If so, that would be great!
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How long has the 5500 been available since it first came out Ernst?
If my memory is correct something like 2001 and replacing the 5000 that had similar technology.
Parts are still available and refurbished/good secondhand have prices starting above 2K $. They were expensive when new though.
Designjets appeared in the early 1990's, replacing electrostatic CAD plotters.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Thanks for the very detailed reply! So if I were to try to make a custom profile for a Canon printer I would have to somehow get hold of the image file that HP color centre uses as its target print, print that with the canon and then use the HP to create the profile. I guess it's embedded in the software somewhere?
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Thanks for the very detailed reply! So if I were to try to make a custom profile for a Canon printer I would have to somehow get hold of the image file that HP color centre uses as its target print, print that with the canon and then use the HP to create the profile. I guess it's embedded in the software somewhere?
Yep.
Export a color chart as a TIFF for printing externally allows you to use a different program (a RIP, for example) to print the color chart. Do not modify the TIFF file in any way before printing it. The printed chart should be exactly the correct size; the simplest way to achieve this is to print it on a paper size larger than the chart and then cut the paper after printing as indicated by the crop marks.
If printing a chart, select one of the available charts.
If measuring a chart, select the characteristics of the measurements file: what sort of information it should contain (CGATS and MonacoPROFILER formats are supported), and where the file should be saved.
Chart measurement may not be successful if you load the chart as a single sheet without skew check.
Open the measurements file with your profiling program.
The printer's spectrophotometer measures from 400 to 700 nm in steps of 20 nm. All other measurement types are interpolated.
You will have to experiment Nackjich. Start by trying to make your own custom profile in color center and find out what options are available. Could be the color chart can be saved as a tiff, as discussed.
-M
Here is a thread at the large format printing forum on this topic:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?106181-Problem-with-creating-a-printer-profile-for-a-different-printer-using-the-HP-Z3200
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I've never tried that using the Z spetro for making profiles for other printers. I don't know if that works or not. I've always had the X-Rite software for the other printers.
I think the reason that people think that HP is "getting out of the fine art business" is that the have done such a strange job of promoting the technology that most companies don't even sell them anymore. That's bad for HP, however they want to look at it because a lot of companies don't sell their ink and heads anymore either. I don't really care myself because I just order all the supplies directly from the HP website they have send it to me NEXT DAY with NO shipping charge, and they always have what I need. The longevity is twice what the new Epson 10K is and the price of the printer is half of that.
As far as the fine art market goes, Epson does't care much about it either. I'm considering a P10K or P20K when I FINALLY find out something about their quad inkset for bw which no one seems to have any real experience with after all this time. If they cared about it they would put it in the hands of some famous photographer and let him do a thorough review and market that to all the schools. I asked my supplier about it and he said everyone seems to really like them but Epson's not making a big deal out of promoting or testing them. Their main interest is in pushing the dye sub and uv curable machines.
The stability data for the Z3200 on the Wilhelm site is listed as >450 years in daylight for the Canson rag media I use, and that's for color. I can't for the life of me see how they could improve upon that, other than increasing the gamut a little, which is no issue for me personally but would help the designers. What whey could work on is the speed and the sheet feeding, and possibly allow thicker media, other than that there is not much to improve other than their website.
John
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Agreed on all points John. 450 years in daylight?
That's phenomenal. And their new Vivid inks test even better.
I have urged them to pay more attention to the market, but they march to the beat of their own drummer. Thanks for weighing in - good to see you John.
Mark
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I've never tried that using the Z spetro for making profiles for other printers. I don't know if that works or not.
John
Oh it definitely works John. Especially for your Z3100.
Here is an article by Michael Reichmann from January 2009 that deals with this issue specifically:
https://luminous-landscape.com/making-profiles-with-the-hp-z3100-2/
Skip down to this section:
"HP Advanced Profiling Solution"
" However, I think the main advantage of the “APS”, is that it lets you use the Z3100 to also make profiles for other printers. If you have more than one printer (or friends with printers), your investment in the Z3100 and APS will now really pay dividends. HP doesn’t really document this, but they’ve included options that make it possible. They even include the 918 patch profiling target (hidden away in the APS software). So, just print this target out on your Epson 3800, and then tell the HP APS to read the target. "
There are specific directions there. You would need the APS however.
I got one for $90.00 new, open box on eBay. They come up now and then.
But you may already have one.
-M
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Since we are talking Z printers here, I have a question about mine. It is a vanilla 24" Z3100 circa 2007. I have done all my own maintenance including the belt. I never print matte. Most of my prints are on Red River UltraPro Satin or Gloss or Canson Baryta.
So my question is, am I missing anything since I don't have the newer chromatic red that came with the Z3200? I seem to remember that it will help matte prints but not so much on satin or gloss.
Thanks
Jim
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The Z3200ps printers are definitely an improvement over the 3100's especially in the area of the reds.
Careful editing somewhat levels the playing field however. Gamut is gamut, in the end though, so the 3200's win out with chromium red. Everything else is basically the same. There are users who say the Z3100 has better neutral grays in B and W.
Seems like you are happy with your Z3100. That's great. Coming up on 10 years man.
Fantastic track record for a LF printer.
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I just finished putting my Z3200 back in one piece after replacing the starwheel motor. I have some paper profiles to make for my Canon IPF8400 and will take the chance to document the process of using the Z3200 to do it. I will post a new topic about on Monday or Tuesday.
Regards.
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We did some gamut tests a few years ago comparing my Z3100 to my Canon IPF8300 and the epson 9900. When viewing gamut renderings using Color Think the 9900 had a much higher gamut in all the colors when viewing mid-value and higher value hues. The Canon was a hair better in some of the lower value blues and greens I believe. The 9900 had the best reds.
The Z3100 and the Canon were very close if not identical in most of the colors except red. The Z yellow was quite amazingly bright especially considering the awesome longevity. The red however, on matte media is never totally red, it's really a red-orange. Now on gloss media it's quite good, as long as you don't do work that is explosively saturated, but not as good as the 3200, and certainly not as intense as the Canon or the Epson ultra chrome inks.
Having said all that I have only had two customers who were not satisfied with the Z3100 reds on matte media and both of them loved to crank saturation. The Z3200 is a probably up there with the Canon Lucia pigments in the red area. I don't have one here to test but it would be so close as to be a non issue.
john
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I just finished putting my Z3200 back in one piece after replacing the starwheel motor. I have some paper profiles to make for my Canon IPF8400 and will take the chance to document the process of using the Z3200 to do it. I will post a new topic about on Monday or Tuesday.
Regards.
That would be wonderful Geraldo. We'll be looking forward to it!
Thanks!
Mark
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Thanks again for all that information! I'm searching Ebay for the HP advanced profiling solution. Quote "For another $800, you can get the HP APS". With a little luck I'll get a bargain for less. This printer really does have a lot going for it !!
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We did some gamut tests a few years ago comparing my Z3100 to my Canon IPF8300 and the epson 9900. When viewing gamut renderings using Color Think the 9900 had a much higher gamut in all the colors when viewing mid-value and higher value hues. The Canon was a hair better in some of the lower value blues and greens I believe. The 9900 had the best reds.
The Z3100 and the Canon were very close if not identical in most of the colors except red. The Z yellow was quite amazingly bright especially considering the awesome longevity. The red however, on matte media is never totally red, it's really a red-orange. Now on gloss media it's quite good, as long as you don't do work that is explosively saturated, but not as good as the 3200, and certainly not as intense as the Canon or the Epson ultra chrome inks.
Having said all that I have only had two customers who were not satisfied with the Z3100 reds on matte media and both of them loved to crank saturation. The Z3200 is a probably up there with the Canon Lucia pigments in the red area. I don't have one here to test but it would be so close as to be a non issue.
john
There is an HP document that informs the user how to achieve best red results with the Z3100. That document was with the bundle docs I transferred to Mark. He might have put it on his site.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Here is that document:
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Oh it definitely works John. Especially for your Z3100.
-M
It works, but HP APS doesn't appear to be supported anymore. Having built a number of profiles for other printers using the HP APS and onboard spectro, my advice is unless you're just flat broke, skip it. Get an i1 when it's on sale for $1200-$1300 The profiles I've build with my i1 are better than the ones the HP creates, even the profiles for the HP. Choices are limited with the onboard spectro. I think there are only 2, maybe 3 charts maxing out at 980 patches. Not so with the independent i1. Another reason to think long and hard about buying a z is how HP sells the ink. The carts are small, and when HP discontinued the twin-packs, I discontinued any thought of buying another HP z printer. Have purchased 2 Canons in that time: ipf8300 and ipf8400. Don't get me started on the HP print driver. It's just clunky compared to the Canon print plug-in. Still do some B&W printing on my z3100, but it's more to keep the inks flowing. Can't bring myself to toss it yet. It's kind of the backup to the backup at this stage.
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It works, but HP APS doesn't appear to be supported anymore. Having built a number of profiles for other printers using the HP APS and onboard spectro, my advice is unless you're just flat broke, skip it. Get an i1 when it's on sale for $1200-$1300 The profiles I've build with my i1 are better than the ones the HP creates, even the profiles for the HP. Choices are limited with the onboard spectro. I think there are only 2, maybe 3 charts maxing out at 980 patches. Not so with the independent i1. Another reason to think long and hard about buying a z is how HP sells the ink. The carts are small, and when HP discontinued the twin-packs, I discontinued any thought of buying another HP z printer. Have purchased 2 Canons in that time: ipf8300 and ipf8400. Don't get me started on the HP print driver. It's just clunky compared to the Canon print plug-in. Still do some B&W printing on my z3100, but it's more to keep the inks flowing. Can't bring myself to toss it yet. It's kind of the backup to the backup at this stage.
An interesting point to add to this:
If you do not need APS for some other features than creating printer profiles on the Z3200 for the Z3200 then you could as well use the normal Color Center profile creator. For monitor calibration/profiling it is not worth installing either, the newer X-rite i1 Display Pro is a way better instrument than the older HP branded one that is in the APS package.
This opinion is based on tests several years ago when I got my Z3200. Both APS and the normal Color Center profile creators deliver about the same quality profiles when used with the Z3200. That was not the case with the Z3100 where APS delivered a better quality profile than Color Center could. As far as I can estimate the Color Center software has been much improved in between the Z3100 and the Z3200 introductions. There is also a difference between the APS as used on the Z3100 and Z3200 if one checks the profile data, it looks like another engine is used. I can not recall the exact names of them though, Logo versus ?. With the change in Red ink between the models (and in my opinion some changes in ink load of the other hues) it is hard to tell whether APS improved between the introduction of the two printer models but I see equal profile quality between CC and APS which was not the case with the Z3100.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
November 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
Roscolo - I remember how enamored you were with the Z3100 when you first got it and were using it.
I find it interesting that you haven't gotten rid of it.
But I'm glad you're pleased with your Canon printers.
Whatever we use that we can work with to authenticate our visions, is what it is about in my book.
I'm not sure if you have used the Z3200ps Roscolo. As Ernst has discussed, the profiles directly from the 3200ps surpass those made from the APS and Z3100.
Certainly a stand alone unit might make a better profile. How much better is the issue.
For me, having the convenience of the ESP in my Z3200ps printers is well worth the sacrifice of having a somewhat less than perfect profile from a stand alone.
To each our own. I'm glad to hear from you - it's been a long time.
Congrats on your Canon printers. Viva la difference!
Mark
*EDIT: Quote from Ernst is from:
Re: HP z3200 APS Win 10
« Reply #7 on: Today at 07:52:44 AM »
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Roscolo:
You can buy the 300ml HP 772 carts for a decent price like I noted in an earlier thread. Not all colors are available in that size, but the Lt Gray and Blacks are, as well as Lt Cyan & Lt Magenta. All you have to do is remove the cap from a HP 70 cart of the corresponding color that is not registered as empty yet, and replace that on the 772 cart. Of course you lose the ability to monitor remaining ink, but you can just periodically pull the cart out and check the weight!
Still happy using the Rosco clear acrylic gloss for coating canvas'?
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Roscolo:
You can buy the 300ml HP 772 carts for a decent price like I noted in an earlier thread. Not all colors are available in that size, but the Lt Gray and Blacks are, as well as Lt Cyan & Lt Magenta. All you have to do is remove the cap from a HP 70 cart of the corresponding color that is not registered as empty yet, and replace that on the 772 cart. Of course you lose the ability to monitor remaining ink, but you can just periodically pull the cart out and check the weight!
Still happy using the Rosco clear acrylic gloss for coating canvas'?
Good tip on the ink, but too much hassle for me. And my Canon's have spoiled me. So much faster than the pokey old Z, easier to load, insanely easier to sheet feed, and that HP driver is just ridiculous compared to the superior Canon print plug-in. My productivity is so much better and faster with the Canon's. Too bad HP has never updated the Z series past the z3200.
Still using the Rosco on canvas...still no problems!
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Roscolo wrote: Choices are limited with the onboard spectro. I think there are only 2, maybe 3 charts maxing out at 980 patches.
It is possible to use more patches, I calibrate with APS on Z3100 with 4096 patches using Bill Atkinson target. He also have target with 5202 patches.
It is all connected to .txt file in APS software which will generate as many patches as you put in it. Just insert .txt file with more patches in folder in APS where targets are, and it will offer you much more than just 3 charts. I even generate smal target to calibrate printer using A4 page, as sample packs are coming in that size. It is not ideal profile, but it will give me some idea how will paper perform.
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I've been eyeing this printer up for a while and at just under 3k USD this is a great deal for a lot of printer. The Section 179 tax break on this equipment makes it tough to resist the purchase. I had access to a Z6100 & Z6200 for a while and those things were solid and the on-board profiling was good. Question on the APS... so as I understand it the Z3200PS comes with the i1 device as part of the printer. Is the APS software bundled with this or does it need to be purchased separately?