Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: NancyP on June 15, 2016, 10:02:14 am
-
Yes, we all use the phone on occasion - for me, a 1 M sensor jpg is just fine for phone-size snapshots. But....
I keep thinking about getting a pocket-sized compact that I could carry around 24/7 in a pocket or runner's fanny pack or in (god forbid) a belt-mounted pouch. Said camera would be most likely have a 1" or M4/3 sensor camera with a fixed lens with modest zoom range in the range equivalent to 24-70 to 24-100mm. Examples would be Panasonic LX100 or Sony RX100(II, III, or IV). I am hoping that people who use cameras of this size range will comment on their favorite one or one you tried and which drove you nuts.
-
... or Sony RX100(II, III, or IV).
Nancy, I am very happy with an RX100 I. Limitations -- lots, but nice images and it fits in a pocket.
And I am cheap.
-
Here is another vote for RX100. I have the Mark II and have not bothered upgrading because the images are so good already. To my surprise I find that some of my favorite images are captured with this camera rather than my Olympus OMD EM5 II with three Pro lenses. It's a combination of the really good quality of the camera itself and "the best camera is the one you have with you". I am starting to find even the M43 Olympus system irritatingly large for much of my photography.
-
Right now I go straight from smartphone to Panasonic GX8. That's it. All other modern gear is stowed and much of it will likely be sold later this year. I use the GX8 with seven lenses, zooms and single focal lengths, covering the 12–400mm range. Do the "equivalent" math for formats other than m43. No more than two lenses at a time. Reducing options has boosted the fun factor and IMO improved my seeing too. Me happy. :D
-Dave-
-
i'd also recommend the RX100. I still have the I, but an EVF would be very useful in bright light. it really is nice to have a pocket camera that can produce decent size prints.
the LX100 is not so pocketable. the zs100 is tempting for the built-in evf instead of the fiddly Sony pop-up and of course the long lens (which is not up to the quality of the Sony) - however the RX100s have a reputation for lens variation - i would have purchased a RX100iii but tested it and found the lens no better than the old I, and the later lenses aren't faster over most of the zoom range.
i have put a GX7 in the pocket of a field jacket or equivalent and would recommend a new GX85 over the LX100 (or GX8 to avoid dealing with shutter shock). A GX8 or GX85 can certainly serve in place of a large camera much of the time and a pocket camera some of the time - but you don't just stick it in your pocket as you walk out the door
-
My RX100M3. Could not praise it enough.
-
For six years it's been my Panasonic LX-5. Small and great IQ within reason. When I didn't want to pack my Nikons, this was my go-to. However, now I'm shooting more and more with my Panasonic GX-7 and Olympus OM-D 5 II which are mid-way between the two. Better IQ than the LX-5 for sure.
If my LX-5 wasn't still working well, I'd probably go with the LX100. Fast and sharp lens, newer tech, slightly larger than the LX-5.
-
I got the 1st generation RX100 back in 2012, never clicked with me, don't know why. I think sometimes miniaturization can have negative effects in terms of ergonomics, and if the camera were just a tiny larger, it would be much better for me. My son still uses it though, and it even survived a 1 month summer camping trip last year, so it must be good.
The LX100 seems like a good option, as does the Canon 1" series (GX5, GX7). I would wait until the new Nikon DL cameras are finally available , they look to be really nice.
Personally, these days I prefer prime lenses, so I would also look into compacts like the X100, or Ricoh GR. The Nikon Coolpix A must be really cheap these days?
-
I used to use a Panasonic GF1 with 20mm pancake lens or 12-35mm zoom for this, but in the end I found the step up in quality compared with a recent-gen iPhone wasn't worth the extra bulk and weight.
So now I take the iPhone as my "camera I always have on me" and just take the hit on more size and weight if I'm going to be shooting anything "seriously" and take the A7Rii. With the 55mm or 28mm lens it can be quite compact- not pocketable, but rucksack-strap-mounted-pouch-able at least. I take the GH4 and 20 or 12-35 mm lenses for longer lightweight trips where the battery life wins over the Sony.
Cheers, Hywel
-
Thanks for all the suggestions. We don't have an abundance of RAW-shooting higher-end compacts around the local camera stores - somewhat frustrating, because ergonomics and ease of use (control layout relative to hand, direct control of aperture and shutter speed, quality of viewfinder, quality of live view on back LCD) are the most interesting specs in tiny cameras.
-
the sony rx1 with it's fixed 35mm zeiss f2 lens is a wonderful camera. the last camera i coveted this much was my hasselblad swc. i loved the ebony su45 too... but not pocket size, but really the rx1 is -for me- in that league. when emmet gowin was over here this is what he had in his pocket, there you go!
-
I use the Fuji X100 as my pocketable camera...yes it fits into my jacket pockets. I take it road bike riding and cross country skiing. Great camera that produces excellent results...even jpegs.
-
I had the RX100 mk1 and mk2, which I never really liked. now I got the mk4, which is brilliant. it is the perfect companion for both a phone and any high end camera, as it does, what both the others can't. Films quite well, too.
-
I have the nikon J5 as pocket camera...
very nice camera, especially with the standard 1.8 18.5mm lens ( 50mm FF)
As a Nikon shooter i can use all my Nikkors on it with an adapter ; a 300mm F4 becomes a 20MP 810mm F4
-
Besides some of the really good cameras already mentioned, if you can wait a bit, these may arrive by end of June, but it's a rumor cause at one point they were supposedly delayed till the Fall...
Nikon DL rumor (http://nikonrumors.com/2016/06/14/nikon-dl-cameras-still-scheduled-to-start-shipping-on-june-30th.aspx/)
My pocket cam has no zoom, but I think it's great. I bought a Ricoh GR two years ago. Added the 21mm conversion lens recently. If these focal lengths can work for you I'd highly recommend. For street work I've found nothing better. So small it is hardly noticed. Won't intimidate a fly. People just figure I'm a tourist when they do notice I'm taking pictures.
The image quality is excellent. I've used it for landscape and am really happy with results. Again. That 28mm focal length has to work for you. Not everyone likes it.
And wanting some 'distance' for my street work and not seeing anything small and good from Ricoh, I just bought an Olympus m5 mark ll. Bought the 25mm 1.8 and the 45mm 1.8 lenses from olympus as well. Not small and pocketable like some, but very good image quality and relatively small and light weight.
Years ago I used a Canon A630/A640 with a swivel lcd. I really liked working with it. Composing with that thing was just so much fun. So I've tried to duplicate that experience with some 'upgrades' :D
I may try the tiny and inexpensive 12-32 panasonic lens on the oly body. That will get me closer to that Canon ideal I enjoyed.
good luck with your decision...
short ps...two cameras I was looking at recently but did not buy were the Canon G7x and G5x...more drawn to G5x cause it has a swivel screen. It was very small and felt great in hand. Image quality is pretty good. And they shoot raw if that's your preference.
But with the likely release of nikon's DL series in the next few months I decided to wait. I have a bevy of cameras to shoot with that make me happy.
-
Yes, the new Nikons ought to be yummy. In particular, the 24-85 f/1.8-2.8 equivalent fits my general range of interest, has a tilt screen and some physical buttons/controls (not 100% touchscreen), and is 2.0" or 2.4" thick (the other dimension is 4.0"). I measured my fat wallet I carry around all the time - 2.0" thick on the nose, other dimensions 4.4" x 3.2" - this camera ought to fit in my pocket fine. I hope the local camera stores carry it - likely they will, given that they have carried Nikon and Canon better-specs non-SLRs before.
The 16-50 mm equivalent model might be good for shooting some "street" styles.
I think I will wait for the DLs to get reviewed, and to show up locally at the stores.
-
Having "lost" my RX100 first gen, I have a Nikon DL 24-85 on order.
It has IMHO the best AF of any compact and the best price/performance ratio among the premium compacts.
Back to Nikon compact after many many years with Canon and then Sony.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
Bernard, did you get an advance look at the Nikon DL24-85?
-
Regarding "pocketable cameras," I started with a Lumix GF-1 with the nice pancake 20 but it was not really pocketable. I then got a Sony RX100, the original. It made nice images but I discovered I REALLY want my cameras to have an EVF so I sold it. I waited a while, and got a Fuji X100S to compliment my extensive Fuji XT-1 collection but though the image quality was great, and the EVF worked well, I found the lack of a zoom to be limiting in a carry around camera, and never really used the OVF. The Panasonic LX 100 has numerous weak points. I'd be sorely tempted by the new Nikons, IF they had a built in EVF. I have the same question as the OP and am tempted by the latest Sony RX100, except for the most impressive price, ($948 @ B&H) but will likely wait for Photokina at which there will either be a new camera, not yet previewed, or a new Sony RX100 mk V which might make the older models with the EVF more reasonably priced. This is a first world problem to be sure but...
-
the problem with the Nikon DL is the lack of built - in EVF. A serious camera (even for pocket) should not have an add-on lump EVF.
-
Bernard, did you get an advance look at the Nikon DL24-85?
Yes, I had the chance to play with one a few months ago and saw several prints from it. Image quality seems similar to that of the RX100, with perhaps a slightly better optics.
But the killer is AF, it appeared very close to Nikon 1 series perfo which is the closest thing in mirrorless to a DSLR.
Lack of EVF is a bit annoying for some situations, but the latest RX100 is just too expensive for a compact that I won't be using that much from past experience.
Cheers,
Bernard
-
I had the RX100 mk1 and mk2, which I never really liked. now I got the mk4, which is brilliant. it is the perfect companion for both a phone and any high end camera, as it does, what both the others can't. Films quite well, too.
I had a RX100 original ($300) and had the most fun I've ever had with a "family" camera for a week until it started buzzing like an electric razor. Store swapped it, but the next made inadequate images, sold it. Guy at the ship told me he went through 4 of them before getting one that worked.
While working with the RX100 I realized that in fact much of the quality is due to digital image correction which doesn't work when the camera is too far out of specs. Sony has become very good at codesign, where the firmware corrects the issues of the hardware, which allows them to use lenses which couldn't be used on a classical camera.
The only real problem of the RX100 was that it's not very good indoors in bad light. Presumably Sony wants to sell other cameras to be used at high ISO.
Edmund
-
Having "lost" my RX100 first gen, I have a Nikon DL 24-85 on order.
It has IMHO the best AF of any compact and the best price/performance ratio among the premium compacts.
Back to Nikon compact after many many years with Canon and then Sony.
Cheers,
Bernard
I don't have a middle ground so I either don't care and use my Nexus 6P phone or use my D810 or D500. But I will probably look at the DL 18-50mm or 24-85mm. They are somewhat intriguing.
The last pocket camera I bought was a Canon S95. Nice camera, but as a point and shoot, not much different than cheaper alternatives and if you got to using the functionality, I might as well be using a DSLR.
-
I consider my RX1003 outstanding in low light for a sensor this small. It's not an A7S2 of course but light years better than any smartphone out there and quite possibly the best IQ in its class.
Besides the glass is so good, it rarely needs any sharpening, keeping noise down.
I had a RX100 original ($300) and had the most fun I've ever had with a "family" camera for a week until it started buzzing like an electric razor. Store swapped it, but the next made inadequate images, sold it. Guy at the ship told me he went through 4 of them before getting one that worked.
While working with the RX100 I realized that in fact much of the quality is due to digital image correction which doesn't work when the camera is too far out of specs. Sony has become very good at codesign, where the firmware corrects the issues of the hardware, which allows them to use lenses which couldn't be used on a classical camera.
The only real problem of the RX100 was that it's not very good indoors in bad light. Presumably Sony wants to sell other cameras to be used at high ISO.
Edmund
-
I have a Panasonic LF1 and it is truly pocketable. You can do everything manually and although it's obviously a bit fiddly it can be done and at ISO 3200 the pictures are fine for whole image screen viewing or reasonably sized prints and that wasn't always so true for APS-C DSLR's not so long ago. It has a useable EVF too.
My only real complaint is that it's too easy to turn it on when picking it up.
I tend to take it with me when even a MFT camera would be too conspicuous and I do prefer using it to taking pictures with my phone.
-
And another vote for the 1st gen Sony rx-100. I still love this camera. The images from the sony 1 inch sensor in good light are fantastic - given the size of this camera.
A fixed viewfinder would be a most welcome addition. I bought and quickly returned the Gen 2 or 3 because I didn't like the reduced lens zoom (original is 28-100) and the 2 stage viewfinder activation was a PIA. Also, going from 8 Oz to 10 or 11 made a difference for me. I ski, bike and hike with this camera in a pocket much of the time. The added weight was not welcome - especially with the viewfinder being so fiddly and the zoom limited to around 80mm. The new Nikon looks nice but its almost 13 Oz
-
X100 v1
-great 35mm f/2 lens
-leaf shutter
-surprisingly good fill flash for onboard, in fact it's the only onboard flash I ever consider using
-3-stop ND filter at the push of a button
-evf and ovf
-feather weight
-thin body and lens combo
-decent macro mode for a 35mm lens
I almost always have one around even just as a backup. It's an amazing tool that is actually pocketable. Large pocket.
-
I once started a whole thread on subj (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=107357.0), you may want to have a look...
Still using RX100m2, but I somehow start feeling it's days are numbered -- more and more often it feels not up to the job. What am I missing?
1. I need to very quickly draw it, "aim", and shoot when I happen to see a worthy scene. And RX100 is lethargic. I was originally very enthusiastic about the ability to set zoom ring to zoom to FF equivalents, in steps (28/35/50/75/100), but quickly realized it's next to worthless -- you have to always rotate the ring twice before it starts to react ("oh, you really wanted to zoom, oh, ok then... I guess, I'll zoom then... I guess I really have to... zzz". It does not remember last zoom position.
2. AF speed. CDAF is CDAF, there is no workaround for it.
3. Connectivity. WiFi is a battery juice hog, so I almost always have it in "airplane" mode. Nikon is IMHO on right track with their Snapbridge that mainly relies on Bluetooth, but they managed to screw it (http://www.dpreview.com/news/2150261239/d500-owner-formally-accuses-nikon-of-false-advertising) as is often the case with them these days...
4. GPS. Unless I shoot in my home city (and somethimes even then), I want to know where exactly I was when I pressed the shutter, goddamnit! So sometimes I end up pulling out cell phone and taking another shot (if I'm not moving too fast...) -- solely for the sake of geotagging. Again, Nikon seem to solve that as well with their Snapbridge -- at least, to a degree.
So... My next camera might be a Nikon DL, as it checks 3 out of 4 (2: PDAF, and Snapbridge covers 3 and 4), but big question mark is their size -- will it fit my current, or a bigger belt pouch? Plus, of course, general responsiveness. If I can't take a shot when opportunity presents itself, all that S/N and DR cr@p just does not matter.
Even my current phone, LG V10, is better than RX100m2 in 3 out of 4 items -- everything except AF. Well, I will then have to expand the list, also including bokeh and zoom per se (where RX100 would have upper hand, of course), but that's a different story. V10 is amazingly quick to draw: I put hand in the pocket, index finger immediately falls on the volume rocker that is on the back of V10; as I draw it, I press "volume down" twice; voila, by the time phone is out, camera is ON.
My dream camera would be something with mechanically-coupled zoom ring around the lens. Once you turn it, the camera is powered and lens goes from collapsed state to, say, 24/28 position. You turn it further, it clicks and is in 35mm position, etc. Why no-one made something like this? I do not know... I do have some hope left though: for years, I was wondering why no-one made a point-and-shoot with WA lens? Turned out, it wasn't me being irrational, it was manufacturers being dumb -- DL 18-50 seems to be the hottest of the DL bunch. So, who knows, who knows...
-
Thanks, Zorki, for the link. Thanks, everyone, for their input.
-
Hello Nancy. About three years ago I wanted and bought a discounted Pentax MX1 that was a return. I wanted it much for the same reasons as everyone on this thread, as a carry-everywhere camera that I could afford to lose, drop or get stolen from my car. It had a small sensor, just under the one inch. Built like a tank, it functioned beautifully and looks like a miniature DSLR, with 28-105 equivalent lens @ F2-4. Had a tilt screen and was snappy- fast than most all the other compact I tried. I regret taking it back. Had temporary finance woes. I paid $400 then. I see it is now selling for close to 1000 dollars. Just ridiculous. See here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuOpygcOVJE
I can recommend one more with a bigger sensor and that is the Canon GX1. Now discontinued. It has a sensor almost the size of 1.5 crop, and has many features. I hope I can get my hands on a used G1X-ver2 (or G2X), it's successor. It still has the larger sensor and focuses closer than the G1X. All the newer models have smaller 1-inch sensor, from Sony (what irony!). Slowish, but just look at the quality of this image shot after I painted the house and saw abstracts in a new light.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Pictorials/i-2mw3ppS/0/L/Jan%203-2014%20House%20003%20smugcopy-L.jpg) (https://johnroias.smugmug.com/Pictorials/i-2mw3ppS/A)
-
Would highly recommend the RX100 II; I'm a pro and I was surprised at how large it would print (30in +) and still be sharp!
-
I don't carry a cell phone. While I like my FF rig, it is big, heavy, and inconvenient to carry around casually.
I have been coveting the Fujifilm X100T as a camera that I could carry around.
For some strange reason, my leaving my FF rig on the shelf is not improving my photography techniques. ;D
-
I got a Fuji X30, I really like it, not as small as some cameras but nice images from it. I originally got it to replace my work camera which is a really old Canon point and shoot (>6years old) and I decided to keep it for myself instead of getting reimbursed. My work uses are not very critical but sometimes require low light capability. Mostly use it at work to document parts that heavily damaged as they come off airplanes, or on the verge of failing. Simple jpgs, but the Fuji is like a mini X-t1 camera, great image quality in a small sensor. For my uses it is great. I also really like the Galaxy S7 camera, that is game changer in the world of phone cameras at least for me.
Alan
-
iPhone 6+ > Canon G1X MkII > Canon 5D MkIII. Always toting at least one of the three.
-
I sold my Nikon 1V1 and I regret it. It was smaller than a Nikon P7800.
I'm now carrying a Sony RX100-2, with electronic viewfinder. Both were bought used, because they cost too much.
I added Richard Franiec's grips to both of those cameras. That solved ergonomics issues. (I was prepared to sell my RX100-2 before I added the grip. It was that bad!)
When I had a small photo business I used. a Leica M3 as lightweight kit
Dave Lynch
-
Thanks. I understand that the Nikon DL24-85 release date is now in 2017. The iPhone 7+ sounds interesting. I will be looking for comments from users.
-
The iPhone 7+ sounds interesting.
It certainly does. If it was an Android phone, I'd buy one in a heartbeat...
I thought LG V20 might be my next phone, but then found out they got rid of rocker switch on the back (double click on "volume down" on my LG V10 activates camera; very handy: by the time you pull phone from the pocket, camera is already On). On V10, they made it flat (with horrible tactile feedback compared to G2), and now this. From LG G2, they just get worse and worse.
No-one wants to build a perfect camera/phone for me... <sigh>