Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: JV on March 04, 2016, 08:06:14 pm
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Pretty interesting...:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-we-do-not-exclude-the-possibility-to-make-a-medium-format-rx-camera/
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Thanks, interesting indeed. I just bought the RX1R II and I really like the files it produces. I have it on Manual set for f2.8 (f5.6- f8.0 outside) 1/200 and Auto ISO and use it as a point 'n shoot with huge potential for cropping and large printing. A medium format version would be an attractive camera.
Further down in the comments, the SAR Admin says: "I talked to DSLRmagazine. And they said they are pretty sure they will make that camera. but of course it's just their bet after having interviewed the Sony manager."
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The RX1 list price is about 3000$. This was the price for the original RX1 and is also the price for the new version. How much do you expect a hypothetical medium format version to cost?
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My guess would be around the same price as the Pentax 645Z which is around $7K, perhaps even slightly higher...
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Hi,
My guess would be 5K, but I will not buy one regardless of the price. A camera with a fixed lens just make zero sense to me…
So, Sony may not exclude the possibility to make a medium format RX camera but I do exclude the possibility I would buy one.
Best regards
Erik
The RX1 list price is about 3000$. This was the price for the original RX1 and is also the price for the new version. How much do you expect a hypothetical medium format version to cost?
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My guess would be 5K
Initially I thought so as well, but Sony has no experience with MFD, so R&D costs, more expensive sensor and glass, $5K could be possible but I would guess it would be more expensive, as the RX1R II is also slightly more expensive as the A7R II (body).
A camera with a fixed lens just make zero sense to me…
To each his own...
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Hi,
Sony has a lot of experience with MF, they are making all the CMOS sensors for all MFD makers. The Sony sensor does the analogue digital conversion anyway. So, development costs for Sony would be nil, except for the camera and lens. Pricing would of course be "boutique pricing".
Pentax sells the 645Z just below 7k$US, that includes a real camera but no lens.
Best regards
Erik
Initially I thought so as well, but Sony has no experience with MFD, so R&D costs, more expensive sensor and glass, $5K could be possible but I would guess it would be more expensive, as the RX1R II is also slightly more expensive as the A7R II (body).
To each his own...
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Sony has a lot of experience with MF, they are making all the CMOS sensors for all MFD makers.
I agree but there is still more to a camera than only the sensor...
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A camera with a fixed lens just make zero sense to me…
Tell that to the tens of thousands who used a Rollei or Fuji fixed lens in the film days, to each their own.
If Sony can make a Medium Format RX for €5K, I feel quite sure there's a market for those. The lens may be f2.8 to keep the size and price down.
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Tell that to the tens of thousands who used a Rollei or Fuji fixed lens in the film days, to each their own.
A big difference is tying an expensive medium format sensor to be used with just one lens.
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Hi,
A lens and a shutter. Zeiss is happy to design a lens. Shutter may be a problem as Copal is phasing out central shutters.
Anyway, Sony has the sensor, and the associated firmware. Sony also has the "Beyonz" processor and camera firmware.
Many users complain about Sony user interface, rightfully so. But, Sony would not redesign their software for a single camera. The MFD RX would be just another RX with a larger sensor.
Best regards
Erik
I agree but there is still more to a camera than only the sensor...
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A big difference is tying an expensive medium format sensor to be used with just one lens.
For Sony a lens probably costs more than a sensor. They can run the whole batch of sensors on any line they happen to have a surplus on.
Edmund
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A fixed lens camera makes a lot of sense to me. I shot entire magazine articles with a Plaubel 67 back in the day. The first place I worked we used Rolleiflex tlr's for just about everything. The Hassy SWCm was a one trick pony and I never tired of the trick.
I have been trying to get that Sony Rx1rII for a couple of months. I reckon you could make a living with just that one camera in many fields of photography. Enough mp to crop and a couple of shots stitched for something a bit wider.
Less is more, keeping photography simple often pays in the end.
A MF fixed lens sounds fantastic. What would be even better is three fixed lens cameras, a wide, standard and tele.
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A fixed lens camera makes a lot of sense to me. I shot entire magazine articles with a Plaubel 67 back in the day. The first place I worked we used Rolleiflex tlr's for just about everything. The Hassy SWCm was a one trick pony and I never tired of the trick.
I have been trying to get that Sony Rx1rII for a couple of months. I reckon you could make a living with just that one camera in many fields of photography. Enough mp to crop and a couple of shots stitched for something a bit wider.
Less is more, keeping photography simple often pays in the end.
A MF fixed lens sounds fantastic. What would be even better is three fixed lens cameras, a wide, standard and tele.
Agree, mostly. An MF Sony with fixed Zeiss 50 to 60mm lens + leaf shutter would be amazing.
The question is whether they go for a crop sensor or full frame MF. Hopefully the latter, and with PDAF on chip. They didn't waste much time getting the 42mp chip into the RXrII, so they seem to be aiming high, therefore, hoping they go the full 100Mp with this one. Not much point with their 42Mp camera out there already, doing much less than double that.
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The text in quotes in the subject line and in the headline of the linked article is not a real quote from anyone at Sony. instead, it is one of those annoying sloppy journalistic paraphrases misleadingly (or even dishonestly) placed in quotation marks, and one that puts a spin on what was actually said. Here is the actual exchange, which I think was first translated from Japanese to Spanish before being Google translated to English:
Interviewer: ". . . Would technique commercially viable and a model with the sensor 50 Megapixel medium format?"
Masashi Wakatsuki of Sony in two versions:
"do not rule out any option -in regard to evolution , for future models"
"do not stop to consider any option, but for us the size of the RX1 series is very important.
This reads like a standard and utterly predictable refusal to reveal any information of make ant commitment either way about unannounced plans and decisions. After all, the Sony rep is surely not authorized to reveal anything about previously unannounced product plans, or to rule out possible future product directions that have not even been considered, or that have ben considered but rejected. So the response is consistent with anything from "we are working on it, but I am not authorized to reveal that" to "we have never thought about such a product at all, let alone made any decisions about it, and so in that sense have not ruled it out" to "Sony's camera division is committed to staying with its current formats, 35mm and smaller, regardless of what the now separate company Sony Semiconductor Solutions is doing, but we do not reveal publicly that we will not be pursing certain product directions".
In short, it tells us nothing that we did not know before the question was asked.
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party pooper! :) :) ;)
Seriously, thanks for the translation. The info is dubious of course, but you know, it's from a rumour site and the idea of a MF RX1 sounds interesting to me.
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Journalists ask questions that won't be answered. Mrs Clinton, if you are indicted for running your own email server, will you abandon your presidential bid?
I have read the interview. I used to do such interviews. Mr Masashi Wakatsuki seems to have been the RX1R2 design lead - he is not a "rep". Precise technical information is given, and the journalists are then sounded out for feedback on the market for *the next luxury compact* (!!!) . Journalists usually know a lot.
It is clear from what is written that the interviewee wishes to skirt around this question; the reference to size may in fact relate to an internal discussion with a rival division on whether a larger model would find a market. It indicates that the topic was already familiar to the interviewee, a project manager. I think one might conclude that *somewhere* in Sony the project was examined, prototypes built. What is interesting, in *my* opinion is that the interviewee did not ask the journalist whether *he* thought there would be a market, or what features he would like to see, when he *did* ask about a successor model. My conclusion is that the project was known to but not under the supervision of the interviewee which means he would be committing a severe mistake by talking, and my *feeling* is that it has already been abandoned or else he would solicit feedback on the idea itself - eg. ask "would you think such a product would make sense". There is a feeling being conveyed here that he doesn't want this MF rival of the RX1R2 to come along and eclipse his favorite child; maybe he was the one who knifed the baby.
Edmund
The text in quotes in the subject line and in the headline of the linked article is not a real quote from anyone at Sony. instead, it is one of those annoying sloppy journalistic paraphrases misleadingly (or even dishonestly) placed in quotation marks, and one that puts a spin on what was actually said. Here is the actual exchange, which I think was first translated from Japanese to Spanish before being Google translated to English:
Interviewer: ". . . Would technique commercially viable and a model with the sensor 50 Megapixel medium format?"
Masashi Wakatsuki of Sony in two versions:
"do not rule out any option -in regard to evolution , for future models"
"do not stop to consider any option, but for us the size of the RX1 series is very important.
This reads like a standard and utterly predictable refusal to reveal any information of make ant commitment either way about unannounced plans and decisions. After all, the Sony rep is surely not authorized to reveal anything about previously unannounced product plans, or to rule out possible future product directions that have not even been considered, or that have ben considered but rejected. So the response is consistent with anything from "we are working on it, but I am not authorized to reveal that" to "we have never thought about such a product at all, let alone made any decisions about it, and so in that sense have not ruled it out" to "Sony's camera division is committed to staying with its current formats, 35mm and smaller, regardless of what the now separate company Sony Semiconductor Solutions is doing, but we do not reveal publicly that we will not be pursing certain product directions".
In short, it tells us nothing that we did not know before the question was asked.
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Fuji's rangefinders were great! The 6x9 "giant leica" was a blast to use. Great focal length that got the job done. Not everyone needs additional lenses. Some prefer only one in fact. If would be awesome to a see a 35 or 40mm equivalent (so like 60 or 80mm MF) with a sensor in a relatively compact package. Like a big X100. X100 has a leaf shutter too, as do lots of compact cameras. Copal shouldn't be a problem. Or are they actually manufacturing everyone's current leafs even on the smaller sensor levels?
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Unfortunately, Copal has stopped production of non-industrial camera shutters. So, it'll have to be focal plane or something else.
Kumar
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So is copal the only one making central shutters at the moment? For everyone using them? Not just large format / medium format?
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Hi,
Hasselblad is making theirs, as far as I know. Copal is a dominant maker of shutters for the photographic industry, also regarding focal plane shutters. So if Copal is quitting the leaf shutter business it will matter a lot.
Best regards
Erik
So is copal the only one making central shutters at the moment? For everyone using them? Not just large format / medium format?
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Three years ago: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=76586.0
Kumar
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The RX1 list price is about 3000$. This was the price for the original RX1 and is also the price for the new version. How much do you expect a hypothetical medium format version to cost?
Assuming that price is a linear function of sensor area (within the RX series):
rx100m4 = [948, 13.2*8.8];
rx1rm2 = [3300, 35.8*23.9];
p = polyfit([rx100m4(2) rx1rm2(2)], [rx100m4(1) rx1rm2(1)], 1);
mf_area = 43.8*32.8;
rx01 = [polyval(p, mf_area), mf_area];
What kind of lens would make sense in such a camera? Street photography? Landscape? I think that it would have some great aspects. Too bad that it would be made by Sony.
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Assuming that price is a linear function of sensor area (within the RX series):
rx100m4 = [948, 13.2*8.8];
rx1rm2 = [3300, 35.8*23.9];
p = polyfit([rx100m4(2) rx1rm2(2)], [rx100m4(1) rx1rm2(1)], 1);
mf_area = 43.8*32.8;
rx01 = [polyval(p, mf_area), mf_area];
I like the method behind that answer. ;)
What kind of lens would make sense in such a camera? Street photography? Landscape?
What kind of lenses did we have on the fixed lens film MF cameras? Think Fuji GW690, Fuji GF670 / Voigtländer Bessa III, Makina 67, etc...
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Assuming that price is a linear function of sensor area (within the RX series):
rx100m4 = [948, 13.2*8.8];
rx1rm2 = [3300, 35.8*23.9];
p = polyfit([rx100m4(2) rx1rm2(2)], [rx100m4(1) rx1rm2(1)], 1);
mf_area = 43.8*32.8;
rx01 = [polyval(p, mf_area), mf_area];
What kind of lens would make sense in such a camera? Street photography? Landscape? I think that it would have some great aspects. Too bad that it would be made by Sony.
whatever, but certainly not linear.
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Too bad that it would be made by Sony.
How so?