Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Adobe Lightroom Q&A => Topic started by: digitaldog on January 27, 2016, 06:16:20 pm
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Another sick joke, more misinformation and BTW, they want you to donate. Truly awful:
http://www.damiensymonds.net/color-space-settings-for-the-lightroom-user.html
It’s very important that you maintain an all-sRGB workflow in processing your raw files. (See here for more information on why this is so).
Click that link for more misinformation if you dare...
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Hopeless
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There are no certainties in life except death and taxes, and so when an article is written with such certainty - black and white, no shades of grey - one expects it to be opinionated and lacking in balance.
This one does not disappoint.
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I think Symonds' problem is that his mind just can't deal with a wide gamut. I expect sRGB is even a bit too taxing for him, so I would suggest that he try my newly invented "extra safe" color space, which I call xRGB.
In my xRGB space there are only two colors: Black, and White. An profiles for xRGB will automatically compress your photos to a range from 20% above pure black to 20% below pure white, so you don't have to worry about clipping.
And if that doesn't solve his problems, for the extremely paranoid photographer I have xxRGB, which limits the dynamic range to somewhere between 45% and 55% of a full gray scale.
::)
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Unbelievable.
I wonder what proportion of "information" published on the internet, contained in YouTube videos, included in Wikipedia, etc. is factually accurate?
10%? Or much less than that?
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I think Symonds' problem is that his mind just can't deal with a wide gamut.
The main issue is, he doesn't know what he's talking about technically, wants to insult those who might (by suggesting wide gamut, calling them Craparazzi) and then wants money for his misinformation! He thinks sRGB has more or less colors than a wider gamut working space; doesn't know the difference between gamut and encoding. He tells people they need to quit or restart their machines after making changes to LR's preferences. He tells his readers LR uses ProPhoto RGB (not correct, somewhat close).
Just another pile of misinformation and that misinformation needs to be disseminated to the poor folks who might stumble upon it, think it's correct and continue to disseminate this nonsense to others.
He has the nerve to title the article The wide gamut myth! What a hypocrite.
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I don't think I am allowed to say what a load of bo*****s or BS in this genteel forum ::) ;D
Obviously I am one that falls into his Craparazzi category, but he appears to be from the same mold as G Fong, K Rockwell, W Crockett to mention just a few.
What a shame that we have the internet giving voice to these crackpot conspiracy theorists
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Obviously I am one that falls into his Craparazzi category, but he appears to be from the same mold as G Fong, K Rockwell, W Crockett to mention just a few.
It appears, all are sharing their saliva with each other. ;D
Common among them: severe misinformation, the need to make up names to call those that use anything but sRGB, the request for donations to continue spreading their false sermons.
What a shame that we have the internet giving voice to these crackpot conspiracy theorists
Indeed, that's why they need to be called out, to protect the innocent who stumble on such sites and believe what they've read is peer previewed and technically accurate![/quote]
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What I wonder is how these guys manage to buy stock in sRGB. How could they all keep up this nonsense unless thay are somehow making money off it? ???
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The money comes from newbies who don't know any better buying what they're selling.
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Another sick joke, more misinformation and BTW, they want you to donate. Truly awful:
I initially thought you were talking about a certain upcoming election ...
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I initially thought you were talking about a certain upcoming election ...
... because there is just about as much factual information coming out from the candidates. ;)
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I take it you are talking about The Donald? The other night there was a program on British TV about his life. Even if half of what was stated was true then it is imo a dreadful prospect for America if he gets nominated but a wonderful prospect for the Democrats. Bankrupted many times leaving investors broke and other less than appealing occurrences. Sarah Palin endorsing him actually left him bemused so he isn't the nuttiest person in the US? Nuff said.
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offtopic: just saw some of my friends liked a page on fb. "how to make money with photography"...."click here to learn how"....register $$$.As expected. The only one who will make money is the one offering the tutorial.
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Here's my list of absolutes: Shoot RAW with a Fuji, convert to Pro Photo in Iridient, print from Photoshop with an Epson on Epson paper.
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Another sick joke, more misinformation and BTW, they want you to donate. Truly awful:
http://www.damiensymonds.net/color-space-settings-for-the-lightroom-user.html
It’s very important that you maintain an all-sRGB workflow in processing your raw files. (See here for more information on why this is so).
Click that link for more misinformation if you dare...
The guy is a stand-up comedian, no?
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I really have a problem with all that. We have come quite far from the 1920's when one would be concerned how the gramophone frequency range fits into the audible space. And yet, this is what we are still talking about when it comes to colors. And I probably do not understanding it all. We have red, green and blue sensors in our eyes. Yet, a technical existing RGB sensor can not reproduce the color we see with our eye-RGB sensors (because only we can see negative red?).
Anyhow, for decades we have now created RGB schemes that try to do the impossible and we can laugh about those who handle it wrong. And this might be defendable in CRT times when three phosphors were all one could do. But nowadays? Where is my multicolored flatscreen (is this what UHD and HDR is about?)? The RGB++ sensors? Audio engineers have it all worked out by now, but what about colors, why do we have such a gap?
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We don't have a gap. There is just a lot of writings about this without any substance other than unfounded opinions. This was also true in audio. And in fact still is.
My background is amongst others years of experience in Development of audio and currently years of fine art printing.
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On the grand cesspool of misinformation (DP Review), we are told this:
As a general rule, you will get the best results and highest quality by using the smallest gamut colorspace that encompasses all of the colors needed for your image. In many cases higher gamut colorspaces merely reduce color accuracy. For many images, that will be sRGB. A color in an sRGB image is more likely to be rendered accurately than the same color in a ProPhoto RGB image.
Some people prefer to always use the wider color gamut, even when not needed, but this leads to lower color fidelity…
Not that this 'fact' was backed up with a lick of colorimetry. Just the opposite, mostly disproven with colorimetry. Working on a video to show how and why.
But the problem is, people who can't back any of this up keep writing such text, others read it and believe it. Then spew the same nonsense onto others.
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I have been retired for a few years and have devoted a significant amount of that time focused on learning what it means to be a photographer compared to the younger me who recorded life events with his camera and occasionally scored a 'hit' with a great sunset.
A lot of my learning frustration has been associated with the topic of this thread - garbage advise from self-proclaimed 'experts'. It is one of the great unintended consequences of the internet (adding confusion rather than clarity). Early on, I was pretty naive about accepting internet advice. The advise confused me cause I couldn't separate the wheat from the chaff. It would send me in circles and added significant time and frustration to the very steep learning curve I have been trying to climb.
Today, I am extremely choosy about where I go and who I listen to on the internet. A lot of my leads have come from Adobe and this forum (which I discovered by accident). I then determine if the lead has the KSE to attract a publisher. These authors are the people I rely upon to get me further up the curve. Still steep, still a long way to go, but now I have a greater sense of confidence that the routes I am following are technically sound.
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Not that this 'fact' was backed up with a lick of colorimetry. Just the opposite, mostly disproven with colorimetry. Working on a video to show how and why.
But the problem is, people who can't back any of this up keep writing such text, others read it and believe it. Then spew the same nonsense onto others.
Andrew,
I noted that your sRGB video was published on Feb 9. Your investigations do demonstrate that there is no significant difference in color values when rendering into sRGB or ProPhotoRGB using you test parameters. Towards the end of the presentation you recommended rendering into 16 bit ProPhoto but it was not clear to me what bit depth you used for the bulk of your experiments. With 8 bit ProPhoto one would expect more rounding errors since the color steps between one bit increments in rendered values are greater in ProPhotoRGB than sRGB.
Regards,
Bill
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Towards the end of the presentation you recommended rendering into 16 bit ProPhoto but it was not clear to me what bit depth you used for the bulk of your experiments. With 8 bit ProPhoto one would expect more rounding errors since the color steps between one bit increments in rendered values are greater in ProPhotoRGB than sRGB.
All the colorimetric data in the video was done using 16-bit output. I did do a test using 8-bit per color and have to dig up the dE report but it wasn't much different if memory serves.
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Andrew where to find your video?
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Andrew where to find your video?
Here: http://digitaldog.net/files/sRGBMyths.mp4
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With 8 bit ProPhoto one would expect more rounding errors since the color steps between one bit increments in rendered values are greater in ProPhotoRGB than sRGB.
Yes, after the initial rendering to each, from high bit data. I still have to dig up the tests and dE reports doing this when setting LR to save out 24-bit data. But I suspect it will produce the same results (unless Dither is added which Photoshop would do and LR doesn't with high bit export). After the rendering, yes, you would ideally want to edit the wider gamut, any gamut data, in high bit.
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Andrew a through test procedure in your video. It concurrentie with a us museums initiative study much like the dutch metamorfoses. Their Conclusion was that the encoding in any of the 3 usually color spaceshuttle was insignificant for the quality. The engineering used however does make a significant difference.
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Here: http://digitaldog.net/files/sRGBMyths.mp4
Great presentation!
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+1 on this :) and it goes for everything in life and also in realy life advise:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1Tmhit277c
The thing is, stupid people don't know they are stupid.
I have been retired for a few years and have devoted a significant amount of that time focused on learning what it means to be a photographer compared to the younger me who recorded life events with his camera and occasionally scored a 'hit' with a great sunset.
A lot of my learning frustration has been associated with the topic of this thread - garbage advise from self-proclaimed 'experts'. It is one of the great unintended consequences of the internet (adding confusion rather than clarity). Early on, I was pretty naive about accepting internet advice. The advise confused me cause I couldn't separate the wheat from the chaff. It would send me in circles and added significant time and frustration to the very steep learning curve I have been trying to climb.
Today, I am extremely choosy about where I go and who I listen to on the internet. A lot of my leads have come from Adobe and this forum (which I discovered by accident). I then determine if the lead has the KSE to attract a publisher. These authors are the people I rely upon to get me further up the curve. Still steep, still a long way to go, but now I have a greater sense of confidence that the routes I am following are technically sound.