Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: ctz on August 04, 2015, 03:02:34 pm
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Hello Everybody
After ten years of using a Phase One P45, then P45+ mounted on a Sinar P2, starting last week, I’m a happy owner of a Sony A7R2. Which I intend to use on an Arca Swiss M, or M-two, or an Universalis. The only movements that I need, tilt/swing on front and rise/shift on back are available on all three if I understood correctly, so no contest here. Also, as much as I loved Sinar, they look like are lacking some motivation lately, compared to Arca or Cambo, and I’m not a big Cambo fan. Which makes Arca the obvious choice.
My jobs are mainly food and drink related, you can see some examples here: http://on.be.net/1K2hHCP
Some questions are looking for answers and I hope some experienced Arca or Sony users might chime in.
1. FOCUS PRECISION
Is there any precision difference between M, M-two, Universalis? I presume that Universalis, been the last one to the table, might be more precise, focus mechanism wise. I’m tempted with a very good and quite cheap second hand M 6x9 but I wouldn’t mind to spend more on Universalis, if it’s more precise.
2. USING A LONG 210mm LENS on Universalis
I presume that I would need another bellow and monorail extension, but would it be enough?
3. USING A 35mm LENS
Is this possible on any of the ARCAs? Do you need some recessed boards for that?
4. USING LIVE VIEW ON SONY:
To my dismay I found out that Capture One (a software that I use and like) don’t let me rotate or change the orientation in Live View AND Sony’s own Remote app does not provide Live View, AND you cannot use ipad app wirelessly when you’re tethered on USB. Bummer. Is there a hack around? Any other solution that let you use and focus on Live View AND let you shoot to computer?
Or is there a hdmi to iPad solution? Might be an option.
5. I’m still new for this Arca/Sony combination. Do you have any tips on some accessories, cables, hdmi monitors, carts, tripod heads, etc. I’ve found out and put on my list some Tether Tools accessories, for example.
Please feel free to describe your setups, regardless that you shoot products, interiors, architecture, etc.
Thanks in advance to everyone and looking forward for your input.
BTW, compared to P45+, A7R2 IQ looks very, very promising. I already adapted it artisanally on Sinar but i cannot wait to settle on one of the ARCAs.
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Here is an article I wrote about the use of the Sony A7r and the Arca DSLR2 which is an Acra M2 adapted for use with DSLR cameras. It will give you some ideas I hope.
http://photosofarkansas.com/2014/11/07/the-arca-swiss-dslr-2-a-perfect-companion-to-the-sony-a7r-part-1-camera-review/ (http://photosofarkansas.com/2014/11/07/the-arca-swiss-dslr-2-a-perfect-companion-to-the-sony-a7r-part-1-camera-review/)
The Universalis will be a perfect companion to the A7rII. Only issue will be wide lenses as the widest solution is the 32mm HR-W rodenstock. Vertical shooting is also a bit challenging.
Live view is great and focus precision is excellent with the Arca.
Paul
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4. USING LIVE VIEW ON SONY:
To my dismay I found out that Capture One (a software that I use and like) don’t let me rotate or change the orientation in Live View AND Sony’s own Remote app does not provide Live View, AND you cannot use ipad app wirelessly when you’re tethered on USB. Bummer. Is there a hack around? Any other solution that let you use and focus on Live View AND let you shoot to computer?
Or is there a hdmi to iPad solution? Might be an option.
I use an Atomos Shogun, connected using HDMI, when I need a big live view image. The image is very bright and sharp. Atomos makes a nice sun hood. It's expensive, however. I happen to have one so I can record 4K video with the a7S.
There are many cheaper HDMI battery-powered displays.
By the way, I find the Shogun focus peaking inferior to the built in a7x peaking, although it is more adjustable.
Jim
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I use an Atomos Shogun, connected using HDMI, when I need a big live view image. The image is very bright and sharp. Atomos makes a nice sun hood. It's expensive, however. I happen to have one so I can record 4K video with the a7S.
There are many cheaper HDMI battery-powered displays.
By the way, I find the Shogun focus peaking inferior to the built in a7x peaking, although it is more adjustable.
Jim
I think you could use a simple HDMI cable to your standard TV or monitor if you are in the studio.
A $200 TV will do the job very well.
Or a small dedicated monitor mounted on camera, as Jim suggests, but these often need power of their own and are a bit expensive.
Also, you can use one of many wireless solutions to transmit HDMI wirelessly to an offboard monitor.
Edmund
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The Universalis will be a perfect companion to the A7rII. Only issue will be wide lenses as the widest solution is the 32mm HR-W rodenstock. Vertical shooting is also a bit challenging.
Paul, of course that I already found and read you're article before posting :) A great one!
About vertical shooting, in what way is "a bit challenging"? Does this apply only to Universalis or also to the M and the M-two?
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Jim, thanks for reply.
Indeed, the Atomos IS a bit too expensive, for me.
Maybe if I was doing video, there might have been another question, but no.
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I think you could use a simple HDMI cable to your standard TV or monitor if you are in the studio.
A $200 TV will do the job very well.
Or a small dedicated monitor mounted on camera, as Jim suggests, but these often need power of their own and are a bit expensive.
Also, you can use one of many wireless solutions to transmit HDMI wirelessly to an offboard monitor.
Edmund
Edmund, good tip!
I wasn't even aware that such wireless solutions might even exist :) Worth a look.
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Owning both the Universalis and M2 I can say without question that the M2 is more precise and sturdy. Since I'm all on location lately, though, I've been using the Universalis more (due to its compactness and lighter weight).
There aren't any great 35mm lens mounting solutions from Arca. Here's what I had made up at SK Grimes...
(http://christopherbarrett.net/forum_images/Canon_Mount_02.jpg)
(http://christopherbarrett.net/forum_images/Canon_Mount_01.jpg)
(http://christopherbarrett.net/forum_images/Canon_Mount_03.jpg)
My lens kit is:
Canon 17mm TS-E
Canon 24mm TS-E II
Contax 35mm PC
Hasselblad 40mm CFe
Hasselblad 50mm CFi
Hasselblad 60mm CFi
Hasselblad 80mm CFe
Arca does make a mounting board for the 'Blad glass. I've done heavy shooting with the setup the last two weeks and am quite pleased. Here's one from last night...
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11754834_10206358195928812_6804301965612820308_o.jpg)
Longer lenses are a drag. The included bellows will work with up to a 135mm. I suppose you could add a carrier and bellows to go longer. Arca also offers an extension that's a square tube. I don't love that solution. HDMI on the Sony works awesomely. I've run it into a SmallHD DP4 with a wireless HDMI transmitter attached... sending the signal to a larger field monitor for art directors. Live View through HDMI is world's better than C1Pro.
What else?
CB
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Chris,
Very helpful, as always! Many thanks.
I'm not surprised that Universalis is a bit inferior to M-two, and considering that I work 99% of time in studio with a 100kg tripod, I care less about the smaller Universalis weight.
Now I wonder if there's more precision in M-two compared to original M Monolith, though ::)
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Edmund, good tip!
I wasn't even aware that such wireless solutions might even exist :) Worth a look.
miracast, dlna, etc. but those are mainly for comps, there are doubtless more genera purpose dongles.
Bolt is pro video quality real time remote view/xmit
Edmund
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Owning both the Universalis and M2 I can say without question that the M2 is more precise and sturdy. Since I'm all on location lately, though, I've been using the Universalis more (due to its compactness and lighter weight).
There aren't any great 35mm lens mounting solutions from Arca. Here's what I had made up at SK Grimes...
(http://christopherbarrett.net/forum_images/Canon_Mount_02.jpg)
(http://christopherbarrett.net/forum_images/Canon_Mount_01.jpg)
(http://christopherbarrett.net/forum_images/Canon_Mount_03.jpg)
My lens kit is:
Canon 17mm TS-E
Canon 24mm TS-E II
Contax 35mm PC
Hasselblad 40mm CFe
Hasselblad 50mm CFi
Hasselblad 60mm CFi
Hasselblad 80mm CFe
Arca does make a mounting board for the 'Blad glass. I've done heavy shooting with the setup the last two weeks and am quite pleased. Here's one from last night...
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11754834_10206358195928812_6804301965612820308_o.jpg)
Longer lenses are a drag. The included bellows will work with up to a 135mm. I suppose you could add a carrier and bellows to go longer. Arca also offers an extension that's a square tube. I don't love that solution. HDMI on the Sony works awesomely. I've run it into a SmallHD DP4 with a wireless HDMI transmitter attached... sending the signal to a larger field monitor for art directors. Live View through HDMI is world's better than C1Pro.
What else?
CB
Hi Chris:
How is the electrical connection being made on the TS-E to the Sony? Did SK mount a metabones to a Acra plate for the front, but I can't figure out how the aperture is closing? The bellows, does it have something different than the standard Arca Magnetic E mount?
Cool deal BTW.
Thanks
Paul
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Paul, of course that I already found and read you're article before posting :) A great one!
About vertical shooting, in what way is "a bit challenging"? Does this apply only to Universalis or also to the M and the M-two?
I wasn't clear on that one. The Sony LCD only flips out horizontally, so if you go vertical, then you pretty much have to be up in front of the camera and since moving the screen only takes you off vertical, it's a bit harder to use. The only screen I have seen that really would work is the excellent design that Sony has on the A99, or one of the Canon non Pro cameras (go figure).
The issue for me was outdoors, as the Sony LCD is pretty much a mirror in good to bright light. When setup horizontally, I could easily move the screen to effect reflections, but vertical was not possible.
Still a great solution and Chris B has figured out a way to get the Canon TS-E's to work, as Arca has never released their mount for Canon, but that also requires all the Arca Electronics. Chris's solution is much simpler.
Paul
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It's a dumb mount, Paul. I leave the Cannons at f/11.
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Ah,
I thought something was up. But how do you set the Canon to F11? I should know this, but don't. I know about the trick of pulling the lens a bit off the AF mount for video to avoid flicker in time laspe is that the trick?
Thanks
Paul
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I have a Meta bones Eos adapter. Mount the lens on the Sony. Set your desired aperture and trigger a long exposure. Remove the lens while the shutter is still open and it will hold the aperture.
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Chris,
Thanks,
Paul
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I don't see the point of such a bastardized combination. But then I am not a fan of tech cams including odd ball ones.
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The issue for me was outdoors, as the Sony LCD is pretty much a mirror in good to bright light. When setup horizontally, I could easily move the screen to effect reflections, but vertical was not possible.
Ah, that's not a big problem for me, working mainly in the studio.
But it's good to know.
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I have a Meta bones Eos adapter. Mount the lens on the Sony. Set your desired aperture and trigger a long exposure. Remove the lens while the shutter is still open and it will hold the aperture.
Hahaha,
I didn't knew this trick.
Off topic, i tried metabones (IV) on my Canon lenses and I was disappointed about AF speed.
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Did you try with the A7rII? AF speed is supposed to be much better than with the older cameras.
Best regards
Erik
Hahaha,
I didn't knew this trick.
Off topic, i tried metabones (IV) on my Canon lenses and I was disappointed about AF speed.
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Did you try with the A7rII? AF speed is supposed to be much better than with the older cameras.
Best regards
Erik
Yes, with an A7R2 it's the only one Sony I have (the latest camera, latest software on metabones IV). AF it's terrible. Kind of Minolta AF in the late eighties. Even with a small and fast lens as EF50/1.4. Not usable.
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Chris,
why do you use the Universalis and M2 set-ups and not simply Metabones Canon EF - Sony E
+ TSE 17/24
+ Contax CY - Canon EF Adapter + Contax CY 35 PC
+ Mirex Hasselblad V - Canon EF Adapter + Hasselblad 40/ 50/ 60/ 80
?
Christoph
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Tilt/Shift lenses and Tilt/Shift adapters have never been as functional as a real view camera. Being able to shift X and Y axis independently as well as having real Tilt and Swing make the workflow greatly more efficient. Having to shift diagonally on a T/S lens always drove me nuts and it was harder to get a precise composition. Also, the built-in shift on the 24mm TS-e II is, what, 12mm? On the view camera I can push it to it's limits, a little beyond 15mm. Lastly, stitching is not for me, but if you want to... it's way more accurate to do it on a view camera than a T/S lens.
CB
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Chris,
Thanks,
Paul
Also, many (maybe all?) Canon lenses mounted natively to a Canon body will retain the aperture if you press the depth of field preview, then turn the camera off. I've done this with several of my lenses (Canon and Sigma) on my 6D. Workaround if you don't have a metabones adapter.
Steve Hendrix
CI
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Hi,
Thanks! I need to wait another two weeks for my A7rII. The only Canon lens I have is the 24/3.5 TSE and that has no AF. Nice to have some feedback.
For me, AF is long down on the priority list but it is still nice to know!
Best regards
Erik
Yes, with an A7R2 it's the only one Sony I have (the latest camera, latest software on metabones IV). AF it's terrible. Kind of Minolta AF in the late eighties. Even with a small and fast lens as EF50/1.4. Not usable.
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Hi,
Thanks! I need to wait another two weeks for my A7rII.
For me, AF is long down on the priority list but it is still nice to know!
Erik,
I was a bit lucky, I catched one of the first three coming in to town :)
For me AF is also a low priority (as long as I'm desperate to put the A7R2 on a view camera ;D ). But I would not keep those Canon lenses just as non-AF lens. And as the most expensive adapter on market, Metabones IS a disappointment. IMHO.
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Also, many (maybe all?) Canon lenses mounted natively to a Canon body will retain the aperture if you press the depth of field preview, then turn the camera off. I've done this with several of my lenses (Canon and Sigma) on my 6D. Workaround if you don't have a metabones adapter.
Steve Hendrix
CI
I use the Alpa FPS and I'm kind of thinking what's the problem? It all just works on that camera ....
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Btw to the OP - if you're looking for a new platform and aren't constrained by the lens mount then I'd recommend looking at the Cambo Actus system.
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Btw to the OP - if you're looking for a new platform and aren't constrained by the lens mount then I'd recommend looking at the Cambo Actus system.
Yes, I considered Cambo Actus also, but I'm not big fan of Cambo, in general.
I'm inclined to pass on Universalis also, and looking for an M or M-two. Arca seems to have better accessories in their system. Plus I might get one S/H Arca Swiss 6X9 Monolith at a good price.
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Ciprian, the big difference between the M-Line and the M2 are:
M2 has no shift on the front standard, just swing and tilt.
M2 also has no swing nor tilt at the rear, just shift.
Arca designed it this way to be lighter and less expensive. It also makes it a bit more precise. The M2 has been extremely good for me with the Sony as well as digital backs. If you need front and rear tilt/swing, go with the Monolith.
I also considered the Actus, but it has no geared shift and Cambo cameras have never been quite as nice nor versatile as Arcas.
Graham, Alpa makes awesome cameras, but I don't see how the FPS would work for Ciprian. There are no movements built-in, right? Also, tech cams are not a great way to use long lenses. Lastly, it would restrict him to MFDB as a capture platform.
-yada yada, etc, etc
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M2 has no shift on the front standard, just swing and tilt.
M2 also has no swing nor tilt at the rear, just shift.
Arca designed it this way to be lighter and less expensive. It also makes it a bit more precise. The M2 has been extremely good for me with the Sony as well as digital backs. If you need front and rear tilt/swing, go with the Monolith.
@Chris: Yes, I know that M2 has cut some of the original Monolith movements, but I never use back tilt or front shift anyway. Also, micrometric shift are a must also in my case.
And you're right having less movements might make the all rig sturdier or more precise. I also presume that the focus mechanism (important to me) might have been a little improved on the newer M-two, but that might be just wishful thinking from my part :)
I lean a bit towards the Monolith just because I mght get one at a very good price S/h, otherwise I'll go for a brand new M-two.
And of course, Alpa was never a contender for me.
One last question.
My old Sinar has a rocking mechanism similar to Arca's Orbix, but for me, adapting a 4x5 P2 to digital, the 2/3 mecjhanism axis was outside of the smaller digital sensor, which resulted in a lot of head scratching when I tilted, because the constant focus axis was already outside the frame.
So is the orbix more efficient, as Arca claims, having the rocking axis in the center? When you tilt/swing, do you have a line that remains in focus? Forget my poor English, but somehow I hope that you understand the point I try to ask about :)
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One last question.
My old Sinar has a rocking mechanism similar to Arca's Orbix, but for me, adapting a 4x5 P2 to digital, the 2/3 mecjhanism axis was outside of the smaller digital sensor, which resulted in a lot of head scratching when I tilted, because the constant focus axis was already outside the frame.
So is the orbix more efficient, as Arca claims, having the rocking axis in the center? When you tilt/swing, do you have a line that remains in focus? Forget my poor English, but somehow I hope that you understand the point I try to ask about :)
Solution: Carrier Frame Wide for Sinar cameras. But I think you have it, don't you?
Kumar
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No, I didn't manage to find one. :|
Later edit: Sorry, you're RIGHT! I HAVE ONE :D
The problem with that wide carrier (haha, I even forgot its name, hence the confusion) is that it introduces a couple of centimetres more between lens and camera, which is not ideal when you want to use a shorter lens. Even a 55 mm unshifted is a challenge without a carrier, already, let alone other shorter lenses. I need a 35-40mm field of view which, right now, even with a digital back, is not feasible for me.
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OOPs, and another one:
@Chris, did you happen to use hdmi AND usb simultaneously?
It looks like if you are using USB for capturing the files and HDMI for Live Viewing, the hdmi monitor goes blank, only showing iso/f-stop/speed, but on a black screen (the pc monitor is blanking, the camera display goes blank anyway, when you connect the hdmi, but there’s no settings displayed)
Is this normal? Is there a workaround?
I use, in the studio, two monitors, one on my Mac, for tethering with Capture One, and another one, hooked on HDMI to the camera’s microHDMI, for LiveView. I’ve tried pushing the Display button on camera, the infos are alternating, but there’s no picture for live view on the HDMI monitor, just the settings. However, as soon as I pull the USB out, everything’s back to normal and I can see the liveview back on the dedicated monitor. Strange.
Thanks in advance, again.
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Yeah, you have to go into the settings to get the feeds set up the way you want. It's been a little while since I've done it so I can't say exactly. I'll look into it it tomorrow when I get back from location... but yeah, I had HDMI out to a big monitor while also capturing tethered via USB.
CB
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I think I tried a lot of settings on the camera, guess I browsed each and everyone of them, but no luck for now. I'll still try.
But if you find the settings required, please let me know. I'm all ears ;D
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OOPs, and another one:
@Chris, did you happen to use hdmi AND usb simultaneously?
It looks like if you are using USB for capturing the files and HDMI for Live Viewing, the hdmi monitor goes blank, only showing iso/f-stop/speed, but on a black screen (the pc monitor is blanking, the camera display goes blank anyway, when you connect the hdmi, but there’s no settings displayed)
Is this normal? Is there a workaround?
I use, in the studio, two monitors, one on my Mac, for tethering with Capture One, and another one, hooked on HDMI to the camera’s microHDMI, for LiveView. I’ve tried pushing the Display button on camera, the infos are alternating, but there’s no picture for live view on the HDMI monitor, just the settings. However, as soon as I pull the USB out, everything’s back to normal and I can see the liveview back on the dedicated monitor. Strange.
Thanks in advance, again.
I'm having the same problem, has anyone found a solution to the USB/HDMI issue? Apparently this wasn't a problem with the older A7R.
While shooting tethered to a computer, and having a small monitor hooked up via HDMI for live view the screen goes blank. This only happens when the USB is hooked up, but when the USB is disconnected the live view comes right back on the external monitor.
After contacting Sony several times I've come to the conclusion that their support is completely useless.
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I'm having the same problem, has anyone found a solution to the USB/HDMI issue? Apparently this wasn't a problem with the older A7R.
Yes, @Chris, "Help Us, You're our only hope" :)
Only if there is, indeed, a problem specific to A7 R II.
I tried all the relevant setting combinations for HDMI, USB, etc, no luck for me.
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Yes, @Chris, "Help Us, You're our only hope" :)
Only if there is, indeed, a problem specific to A7 R II.
I tried all the relevant setting combinations for HDMI, USB, etc, no luck for me.
I got Sony support to escalate this issue to their engineering department after numerous calls with no resolution, but they have not gotten back to me yet.
I'll post an update once I hear back...
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I got Sony support to escalate this issue to their engineering department after numerous calls with no resolution, but they have not gotten back to me yet.
I'll post an update once I hear back...
Great, so now I've got TWO only hopes :P
Thanks, Zachary, looking forward for any news.
Fingers crossed.
I still use Capture One's Live View which is ok, in absence of other solution
Just that bloody window does not (automatically or at least MANUALLY) change the orientation when you change the camera from landscape to portrait. What a bummer.
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Hmm... honestly I haven't even plugged anything into the A7rii's hdmi port yet. I'm just getting a bit of downtime and will play with the new body a bit tomorrow morning.
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I still use Capture One's Live View which is ok, in absence of other solution
Just that bloody window does not (automatically or at least MANUALLY) change the orientation when you change the camera from landscape to portrait. What a bummer.
I have the same issue with Capture 1. I can't believe that they didn't include the option of at least manually rotating the live view, and since I shoot 75% in portrait rotation it makes their live view option unusable.
In any case, I contacted Sony again and they gave me an update. Their engineers were able to replicate the problem on their end and acknowledge that it is indeed an issue, but they don't have an answer for me yet.
Will post again once I have another update...
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I contacted Sony again and they gave me an update. Their engineers were able to replicate the problem on their end and acknowledge that it is indeed an issue, but they don't have an answer for me yet.
Will post again once I have another update...
Thanks for update, fingers crossed...
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After countless phone calls to Sony support, and their lack of responses I basically gave up on this issue.
Good news however!
It looks like they listened and will be including a fix for the HDMI issue in the new firmware being released on the 19th along with uncompressed RAW!
"In addition to uncompressed RAW capture, which will become a selectable feature (uncompressed/compressed RAW) within the menu system for updated cameras, the firmware also adds the ability for the α7R II to output video via HDMI during use of the Remote Camera Control software, that enables remote capture from a connected computer."
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-to-release-%CE%B17rii-firmware-adding-uncompressed-14-bit-raw-on-october-19th/
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8) 8) 8)
what a relief!
just fingers crossed this is indeed gonna happen.
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8) 8) 8)
what a relief!
just fingers crossed this is indeed gonna happen.
I wonder if this will also mean that if you rotate the camera to the portrait orientation, the view on the HDMI monitor will also rotate to portrait.
Edward
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I wonder if this will also mean that if you rotate the camera to the portrait orientation, the view on the HDMI monitor will also rotate to portrait.
Edward
Well...
In this cases I (physically) rotate the whole monitor, anyway :D
Because it's much better this way, real estate wise.
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+1
Well...
In this cases I (physically) rotate the whole monitor, anyway :D
Because it's much better this way, real estate wise.