Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Colour Management => Topic started by: petkelmac on July 07, 2015, 07:19:01 am
-
Hi,
I'm an IT guy with some background in prepress and photography. I have small business customers in the design sector and many of those don't have any kind of colour management in place. Maybe a CMYK profile from the print house if lucky. I'm thinking of getting a ColorMunki Photo for myself and introducing clients to colour management with it. Just a basic display and inkjet calibration where there has been none before. Maybe I sell them their own kit or upgrade my service kit later.
ColorMunki software EULA is quite ambiguous, first it prohibits installation on any computer not yours:
You may install and use the Software on any number of computers owned by You. Additional installations and uses are prohibited unless otherwise authorized by X-Rite in a separate written document issued by X-Rite to You.
Restrictions. In addition to other restrictions set forth in this Agreement, You may not (b) use the Software for the benefit of third parties in a commercial, retail, service bureau or similar enterprise, except as permitted under this Agreement;
(a) You may use each Profile only for the specific display, input or output device owned by you, for which the device Profile was created;
But then it says:
(c) You may provide a Profile to a third party for personal use by such third party only on a specific display, input or output device owned by the third party for which the device Profile was created as part of Your commercial profiling service to such third party. It is clarified that You may not provide Profiles to any third party for distribution with such third party’s display, input or output device.
(d) Except as expressly permitted in this Agreement, You may not Yourself or through any other person, do any of the following: (i) sell, license, sublicense, lease, rent, lend, disclose, permit access to, or transfer to any third party, whether for profit or without charge, any Profile; (ii) allow any third party to use a Profile; or (iii) distribute to any third party a Profile in any way or form, whether by networks, electronic bulletin boards, web sites or otherwise. X-Rite may permit certain distribution rights under a separate written distribution agreement.
I understand this to mean that I can't make profiles for friends for free, but I can make them to customers as part of my commercial profiling service, as long as I or the customer don't redistribute it in any form. But I'm not explicitly allowed to install the software on any computer I don't own? Kind of makes it hard to create display profiles for customers. :D
Many of the sections seem to be the same as in i1Profiler EULA but that one has a longer section on profiling services. What do you guys think?
Full ColorMunki Photo EULA here: http://www.xrite.com/Documents/Literature/EN/ColorMunkiPhoto_EULA_EN.pdf (http://www.xrite.com/Documents/Literature/EN/ColorMunkiPhoto_EULA_EN.pdf)
-
What do I think?
Two important aspects of quality legal agreements are clarity and enforceability. Since this agreement has neither it is a very poor agreement and reflects yet another X-Rite mess-up.
-
What do I think?
Two important aspects of quality legal agreements are clarity and enforceability. Since this agreement has neither it is a very poor agreement and reflects yet another X-Rite mess-up.
And it was subject of discussion (also here on LuLa) when the software was first launched.
Cheers,
Bart
-
These EULAs are similar to laws and regulations in that they are often evolutionary. As time goes by and each is updated and reviewed, sometimes conflicting wording is introduced.
Often it takes a court case to bring this out and nudge the offending writers to get their act together.
-
Do not use the X-rite software, use Argyll to create the printer profile
http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/quick-tutorial-guide-with-argyll-cms-and-colormunki.7941/
and Argyll+dispcalGUI to calibrate the monitor
http://www.modelmayhem.com/forums/post/870355/1#post17806610
-
ColorMunki software
how about alternatives like Argyll for your purposes ?
-
Thanks everyone for comments. X-Rite probably wouldn't come after me but it would be nice to know being in the limits of the EULA.
Argyll is probably a good idea but requires a bigger time investment in learning to get good results and have the confidence in those results in the real world. I'd also have to package it properly to use on client machines without hassle. Unfortunately I don't have an inkjet to learn on.
-
Thanks everyone for comments. X-Rite probably wouldn't come after me but it would be nice to know being in the limits of the EULA.
Argyll is probably a good idea but requires a bigger time investment in learning to get good results and have the confidence in those results in the real world. I'd also have to package it properly to use on client machines without hassle. Unfortunately I don't have an inkjet to learn on.
it seems everybody do not like X-Rite software (did I ever read any praise about it ? ever ?), so investment in Argyll might be actually the way to go...
-
it seems everybody do not like X-Rite software (did I ever read any praise about it ? ever ?), so investment in Argyll might be actually the way to go...
X-Rite produces some fine products - the big problems are more with corporate policy.
-
X-Rite produces some fine products
you probably mean hardware side of the business or may be something for big enterprise ?
-
you probably mean hardware side of the business or may be something for big enterprise ?
What I mean is that X-Rite is the predominant player in the colour management business and the bulk of the photographic industry that uses colour management successfully is using X-Rite products - hardware and software. So whatever cock-ups they commit in the policy and marketing areas, there is another side of it that seems reasonably OK.
-
and the bulk of the photographic industry that uses colour management successfully is using X-Rite products
people were successfully crossing the ocean usings sails, were they not ?
-
After reading this Argyll seems an even better idea: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99435.0 (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99435.0)
Shame, the hardware seems quite capable but X-Rite's software buggy and limited.
-
people were successfully crossing the ocean usings sails, were they not ?
Uhuh - and two Swiss pilots just did it on solar cells, but it's not a generally accessible solution and not commercially viable.
If there were overall superior colour management solutions on the market, X-Rite would probably be out of business, so not sure what your point is. Are they perfect - hell no, we've dissected that in spades on this website. But grosso modo the stuff works.
-
After reading this Argyll seems an even better idea: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99435.0 (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=99435.0)
Shame, the hardware seems quite capable but X-Rite's software buggy and limited.
pssst... just don't tell Mark here ;)
-
so not sure what your point is.
that I read a lot of unhappiness about x-rite software from regular users (here - photographers who print) and rarely a praise... now again may be the case with big enterprise/other industries is different... that's it.
-
pssst... just don't tell Mark here ;)
Not tell me what? You can tell me whatever you want about X-Rite's software - I have no stake and no affiliation; but if you tell me anything - please - from first-hand experience, not Internet chatter. Every person practicing colour management on a Windows or Mac computer should try Argyll and try X-Rite and use whatever floats their boat. I could care less. Anyhow, all this is OT. The OP asked for a view of X-Rite's licensing conditions.
(edit - omission corrected)
-
I'm thinking of renting the Colormunki Photo from Lensrentals and using the Argyll software (already installed on my computer and used for monitor profiling).
For anybody that's done this, is the tutorial referenced in this thread sufficient to accomplish this successfully?
Allan
-
I'm thinking of renting the Colormunki Photo from Lensrentals and using the Argyll software (already installed on my computer and used for monitor profiling).
For anybody that's done this, is the tutorial referenced in this thread sufficient to accomplish this successfully?
Allan
You can also get step by step instructions from Stefano Lassini website. The instructions are easy to follow:
Printer profiling for the fine art photographer – Part 1 (http://www.lassinilightworks.com/color-management-for-the-fine-art-photographer-part-1/)
Printer profiling for the fine art photographer – Part 2 (http://www.lassinilightworks.com/printer-profiling-for-the-fine-art-photographer-part-2/)
Printer profiling for the fine art photographer – Part 3 (http://www.lassinilightworks.com/printer-profiling-for-the-fine-art-photographer-part-3/)
Printer profiling for the fine art photographer – Part 4 (http://www.lassinilightworks.com/printer-profiling-for-the-fine-art-photographer-–-part-4/)
-
Again a bit OT, but since it is raised, Graeme Gill says Argyll is known to be supported to Mac OSX 10.8; most Mac users are likely on 10.9 or beyond. I'd be interested to hear of experience for 10.9 and beyond. Also interested in any personal experience reports of using the XRite Pulse with this software. It's a dated, but still very capable instrument if correctly calibrated. While command line is kind of quaint, it surely is a way out of the XRite EULA if one needs this.
-
Software isn't developed in a vacuum and there are real costs associated w/ it. Ie. there is no free lunch.
From the ArgyllCMS website:
I need your support.
Unfortunately programmers and color experts can't live on encouragement and complements alone - they have bills to pay, equipment to keep up to date, instruments to buy, and other financial obligations just like normal people. So if you find ArgyllCMS valuable, and would like to continue to have technical support, bug-fixes, updates and drivers for new instruments added to it, or you appreciate having serious color management available on platforms other than MSWin and OS X, then it's a really good idea to provide support via a donation commensurate with the value it provides you.
If you are a casual or hobby user, then something like $5 - $100 may be appropriate, depending on how deep your pockets are.
If you are using ArgyllCMS in your business, an annual donation, of (say) 5-20% of the cost of the commercial software you have not had to pay for, would make a great deal of difference in ensuring that it continues to be available.
If you are distributing ArgyllCMS as part of some other free package, then please make your users aware of the need to support the software that you and they depend upon.
If you are distributing ArgyllCMS as part of some other package that you are make money out of (e.g., a commercial Linux distribution where ArgyllCMS is providing a feature that allows Linux to be on par with other operating systems with regard to Color Management), then it would help tremendously if you treated it like other key software you depend on, and make an allowance to donate a portion of a full time developers salary every year.
If there is an insufficient level of ongoing support, then there is a very real possibility that you will return here in 6-12 months time, and find ArgyllCMS has gone.
-
that I read a lot of unhappiness about x-rite software from regular users (here - photographers who print) and rarely a praise...
If you read back to the release of i1Profiler you'll find lots of people singing the praises of the quality of the results.
I like it, but there's little 'fan boy' culture for CM products. People happily just get on with using it without feeling the need to praise it on a regular basis.
Sure, there are problems with the packages, mostly down to non-existant documentation and corporate policies and I'm sure some of the real experts can pick holes in how it works and some features.
However Profiler and PMP both deliver excellent profiles very easily.
-
PMP
you mean ProfileMaker Pro ? that's not a genuine X-Rite product
-
you mean ProfileMaker Pro ? that's not a genuine X-Rite product
Yes, PMP. It was sold to me and 'supported' by X-Rite and is under their EULA.
Many of their offerings have origins in past products.
-
Yes, PMP. It was sold to me and 'supported' by X-Rite and is under their EULA.
right, but that does not make it X-Rite software product... like i1Profiler.
-
right, but that does not make it X-Rite software product... like i1Profiler.
X-Rite may have a different view on that to you.
However my point was that if you had been around when the i1Profiler product was launched or can be bothered to back read through this forum, you WILL find praise for X-Rite's products.