Canson Baryta Photographique Ink Smearing After 24hrs

[Tom Marasco]

Hi all,

A long time forum lurker, now needing your assistance.

I've recently purchased Canson Baryta Photographique 310gsm paper.  I'm printing with a 9500 Mk II, using Precision Colors ink, and am having problems with the ink density in the darks I think.  I've played with a few test prints, using Canson's ICC profile, and have done some adjustments to get the prints looking good, mainly an increase of saturation in the yellows.  With the more accurate looking prints, the dark areas are prone to severe smearing and are easily scratched, even after letting dry for 24 hours. The original test print, before any yellow saturation adjustments were done, seems to be doing OK.  Do you think there's too much density built up in the shadows?  Would a custom profile help this?

Any suggestions, experiences, or solutions would be greatly appreciated!

Tom

[Mark D Segal]

Hi Tom,

Caveat emptor - I have not used either that printer or those inks; but from what you describe and what I generally know and expect of that paper in Epson professional printers, I am reasonably confident you would not be experiencing these issues if you used the Epson inks for which the printer is designed. The Canson profile is made presuming the laydown of Epson ink. That said, increasing the platen gap may help alleviate the smearing. Also, are you using Photo black or Matte black ink for that paper? It should be Photo Black. The problem with the yellow again could be an ink/profiling issue, because the Canson profile for that paper/printer combination would have been created from targets printed with Epson inks. Looking on the Canson website I don't see profile support for the 9500 printer - perhaps discontinued. A custom profile may help because it would be calculated from the inks you are using.

[Tom Marasco]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reply.  Everything prints fine, no smearing due to printing, but it's more of how the ink in the darks doesn't seem to dry.  I'm actually using a Canon 9500 MK II, I don't own an Epson   Canson has a profile for it that has been relatively accurate, although, the yellow (oranges) saturation is a bit off, but for the most part, the other colors have been close.  I figured the only way I'll get true color accuracy is if I profile it. 

My problem here is, however, the risk of smearing with this paper, not as it's being printed, but after it has been allowed time to dry.  Even putting tissue paper on it has scratched a print.  Trying to figure out what the heck the issue is and if anyone has experienced the smearing.  Is this due to too much ink being laid down in the darks?  I believe the profile calls the Photo Black to lay down.

Other prints I've made using Precision Colors ink have been extremely close to Canon OEM inks, but this paper is new to me and the delicacy of my prints on it so far, especially the smearing and high risk to scratching of wet ink, makes me concerned about using it to sell my work.  I love the gamut and feel of it, but I need to work this kink out before feeling comfortable.

[Mark D Segal]

OK, well I know little about Canon printers. For the yellow issue, I would still look to the ink/profiling side of things for correction. It would also still be appropriate to wonder whether that ink and paper combination is workable - in light of the drying and smearing issue, but you'd probably have a better feel for that after testing it with a custom profile.

[Tom Marasco]

Thanks again, Mark.

I was pondering the idea of the profile actually calling the Matte Black rather than Photo Black.  I wonder if this could be an issue?  I wouldn't know where to start to trouble shoot that idea, though, or how to correct it.

[Mark D Segal]

Neither would I, but I think it conceivable that applying the wrong black to the paper surface could cause issues - if indeed that is what's happening.

[Landscapes]

Thanks again, Mark.

I was pondering the idea of the profile actually calling the Matte Black rather than Photo Black.  I wonder if this could be an issue?  I wouldn't know where to start to trouble shoot that idea, though, or how to correct it.

When I experimented with one of the Satin canvases, I just used the same profile I had made for a matte canvas and hence used the same printer setting.  This made use of Matte black ink instead of photo black (Canon printer).  For days later, I could wipe off the darker/black colors.  Now this will only of course affect the areas where black ink needs to be laid down, but once you start getting into dark colors, black is probably used more and more so along with other mixed in colors.  So since a baryta surface does seem rather shinny to me, even though I guess its a matte paper, I almost think that this is easily the issue.  I have no experience with Baryta paper though to properly comment, just speculate.

[Mark D Segal]

When I experimented with one of the Satin canvases, I just used the same profile I had made for a matte canvas and hence used the same printer setting.  This made use of Matte black ink instead of photo black (Canon printer).  For days later, I could wipe off the darker/black colors.  Now this will only of course affect the areas where black ink needs to be laid down, but once you start getting into dark colors, black is probably used more and more so along with other mixed in colors.  So since a baryta surface does seem rather shinny to me, even though I guess its a matte paper, I almost think that this is easily the issue.  I have no experience with Baryta paper though to properly comment, just speculate.

Canson Baryta Photographique as well as Ilford Gold Fibre Silk are in the luster category - not matte - and they need Photo Black ink, not Matte Black ink.

[Tom Marasco]

The printer is definitely using Photo Black.  I'm puzzled. 

[Mark D Segal]

I can only think of two approaches to resolving the problem: (1) Make a custom profile for it (or get one made from a profiling service such as Digital Dog or Onsight), and (2) use Canon's own Photo Black ink and see what happens.

[Justin B]

I was pondering the idea of the profile actually calling the Matte Black rather than Photo Black.  I wonder if this could be an issue?

Yes, most certainly.

The printer is definitely using Photo Black.  I'm puzzled.  

Are you 100% sure? I've yet to see where you mention which media type setting you are choosing when printing? This determines the black ink type, not the ICC profile.

The ICC profile alone won't typically caused so much over inking causing this type of smudging after 24 hours of dry time.

I'm assuming you're selecting one that Canon has recommended for their Baryta Photographique, but exactly which media type setting are you using?

[hugowolf]

I can't see how it could be a profile problem. If you are sure it is using PK, then it really looks like an ink problem, and $12 on an OEM cartridge could save you a lot of money on wasted paper.

Brian A

[Tom Marasco]

Yes, most certainly.

Are you 100% sure? I've yet to see where you mention which media type setting you are choosing when printing? This determines the black ink type, not the ICC profile.

The ICC profile alone won't typically caused so much over inking causing this type of smudging after 24 hours of dry time.

I'm assuming you're selecting one that Canon has recommended for their Baryta Photographique, but exactly which media type setting are you using?

Thanks for the reply.  I am sure.  Photo Black is the only black currently low (as well as grey).  The media type chosen is Semi Gloss, the recommended type on the Canson website. I guess an OEM PB is the quickest way to tell. I'll post the results once it comes in.  I contacted Canson as well as PC to inquire regarding the issue.

[Tom Marasco]

I can't see how it could be a profile problem. If you are sure it is using PK, then it really looks like an ink problem, and $12 on an OEM cartridge could save you a lot of money on wasted paper.

Brian A

I agree, thanks for the tip.  One on the way.