This may be the most important article you will ever read

[ripgriffith]

If you photograph people, particularly children,  you MUST read this!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/19/magazine/the-cost-of-sally-manns-exposure.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20150418

[Diego Pigozzo]

Thank for sharing. I'll rating the whole thing asap

[petermfiore]

As this time in our world we need to pre-think the repercussions for freedom of expression...


Peter

[Diego Pigozzo]

After reading the article I'm on the Sally's side: no-one should limit itself because of the flaws of the worsts out there.

[petermfiore]

After reading the article I'm on the Sally's side: no-one should limit itself because of the flaws of the worsts out there.

Correct! That's the position we as creatives must accept and remain stedfast ...

Peter

[RSL]

I agree, but it's going to be a fight. Year before last I was shooting pictures of kids enjoying themselves in the penny arcade. A woman came up to me in a huff and informed me that the school board had decided it was illegal to shoot pictures of children. I explained to her that I'd been mayor of the city for six years and I knew of no change in the Constitution or even the city charter that would allow the school board to decide what's legal and what's illegal. She insisted on seeing the pictures I had on my camera. Since I couldn't see any reason she shouldn't see them I showed them to her. Then she informed me that if I didn't delete a couple pictures of the kid she'd come with she'd call a cop. I checked the pictures, decided they weren't good enough to keep in any case, and deleted them as she watched, even though I thought it might be entertaining if she called a cop.

This gal is the kind of crazy we're all up against now. Just hang in there, folks. The law's still the law. Incredibly, France, home of HCB, seems to have given in to the crazies, but so far we've managed to keep our heads.

[kers]

I think it is a very American (US) problem...  In most of europe this would be no issue at all.
The funny thing in the US is that violence- as sadist as we can imagine it ( take the serial killer movies and serials) are allowed and treated as nothing special while a naked body is a big problem.
And sex is in the form of 'fuck of the century'...  
(here in Holland we even have commercials with naked children sitting on a toilet- apparently nobody here thinks it is odd or sexual)

[amolitor]

I find it telling and worth noting that the Most Famous book with pictures of nude kids on earth, shot by a well known and easily findable artist, of her own equally findable kids, resulted in exactly zero kidnappings and rapes.

This is not to discount Sally's experience, which was unpleasant and terrifying. It is not to say that pedophiles do not exist, or that they do not do terrible things on occasion.

However, we can now state that the risks are not as some people seem to think. Your children will not inevitably be kidnapped if you take a nude picture.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Russ, YOU should have called the cops on her, for harassing you. Damn crazies.

[Harald L]

I think it is a very American (US) problem...  In most of europe this would be no issue at all.
...

Nope. In Germany this has been a big issue for years and a few month ago we've got a new bill which sets new standards of privacy. It prohibits to take and publish pictures, which could interfere one's reputation,

[RSL]

Russ, YOU should have called the cops on her, for harassing you. Damn crazies.

Problem was, I knew all the cops. If I'd called one there were snipers who'd have accused me of hassling the poor soul.

[NancyP]

I never thought that Sally Mann's photos were offensive, except maybe to the children themselves who might be a bit annoyed in their teen years to have those photos out there visible to their potential dates. "MOM, did you have to publish these so my friends could see" as a variation of "parent shows album with embarrassing photos of their young kids to their now teen or young adult child's significant other".

[Diego Pigozzo]

I never thought that Sally Mann's photos were offensive, except maybe to the children themselves who might be a bit annoyed in their teen years to have those photos out there visible to their potential dates. "MOM, did you have to publish these so my friends could see" as a variation of "parent shows album with embarrassing photos of their young kids to their now teen or young adult child's significant other".

The real problem is that very few people come to terms with the nature of their brain, so when something "clicked" them in an socially unacceptable way they blame the stimulus.

[Alan Klein]

I never thought that Sally Mann's photos were offensive, except maybe to the children themselves who might be a bit annoyed in their teen years to have those photos out there visible to their potential dates. "MOM, did you have to publish these so my friends could see" as a variation of "parent shows album with embarrassing photos of their young kids to their now teen or young adult child's significant other".

I'm sure that her taking of these pictures were innocent.  But I agree with you that they may not have been sensitive to her own kids' privacy when they got older.  Especially because they are so public.   No one wants to be embarrassed.   

[amolitor]

Honestly, it's borderline offensive to assume that a parent isn't at least approximately cognizant of their children's wants and desires.

Mann had the conversation, in depth. Her children had a LARGE role in the process of publishing the thing. Also, they were and remain pretty damn sophisticated about photography and art (not surprisingly).

[Alan Klein]

Knowing what a child will want when it grows older might be hard to pre-determine when its still at the age of innocence and doesn't find a need to "cover up".  Asking that child when it's incapable of giving a grownup response seems like you'd be expecting too much.    I have to admit that I have have 8mm movies of my niece and photos of my daughter when they were babies.  But nothing after that.  I respected their privacy even of they didn't yet feel it.

[Diego Pigozzo]

I'm sure that her taking of these pictures were innocent.  But I agree with you that they may not have been sensitive to her own kids' privacy when they got older.  Especially because they are so public.   No one wants to be embarrassed.   

If someone thinks I'm the same person I was when I was ten and judge me now for what I did when I was a child, let me say I'm not the one who has issues.
So why should these kids be embarrassed when they grow up?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... So why should these kids be embarrassed when they grow up?

+1

We live in a culture that glorifies gory violence but vilifies nudity. A Michelangelo's David copy in front of a Midwest hotel was once dressed in shorts for a convention of, apparently, the faint of heart.

[NancyP]

C'mon. When you are a teenager, everything having to do with your childhood is embarrassing. When you reach adult years, you look at your childhood photos and either shake your head or smile (or both).    Of course I am of an older generation, but I can't imagine that teenagers of any decade appreciate being reminded of their childhood in front of other teen peers.

[Diego Pigozzo]

C'mon. When you are a teenager, everything having to do with your childhood is embarrassing. When you reach adult years, you look at your childhood photos and either shake your head or smile (or both).    Of course I am of an older generation, but I can't imagine that teenagers of any decade appreciate being reminded of their childhood in front of other teen peers.

Doesn't this apply not only to "nude photographs" but to everything that happened in childhood?